Lionel Messi

This thread is going to be full of the American Ronaldo fans talking about Lebron James, being clutch and GOATS for the foreseeable :lol:

You want to throw up? Read the comments under any Michael Jordan video. (Of course he's the greatest to have played his sport but still ..)
 
But it's not just tonight. Stop acting like it is. It's happened year after year now. Barca (or Argentina) get absolutely smashed and Messi looks like he'd rather be anywhere else instead of standing up and looking like he wants to make a difference. At the end of the day, when the important games come around and his team goes crashing out with his influence equalling zilch it's absolutely ludicrous to suggest it doesn't at least lessen his legacy somewhat.
3 years in a row of being embarrassed is not a coincidence that all 3 performances were similar. Granted this one was not nearly as much his fault as the team was shambolic.

He is out of top level football by 35 though if not sooner. No doubt about it for me.
 
in sports, that's what happens. That's how GOATs are judged: your team loses, gets humiliated like LeBron James; a GOAT-wannabe takes the blame for QUITTING..Messi quit today..disgraceful..another GOAT-wannabe named CR7 too many times has just refused to lose...like he refused to lose against Spain in 2018 and so many times.

This isn't Tennis.
 
If you don't put in the work you have to score and assist. if you're failing to do that, you need to run and hustle. Suarez initially wasn't pressing, but even he realized that he needed to put in some yards because that's how it works. You can't just walk around, not impact the game, and then be fully absolved at the end with all the blame going to your teammates who at least DID try.

It's fine saying it's not totally his fault, but then don't absolve him for having next to no impact in ANY area of the game.
 
I dunno, I think you can carry Messi's lack of defensive effort in any of those squads. Mahrez plays there for City (lazy bastard), Salah is the only Liverpool player who gets called lazy and doesn't really have to get involved defensively thugh he does press when they are high. Bayern seem to have 11 who run themselves into the ground though. I think every team would be better with Messi on the RW than without despite whatever tweaks they have to make.

I don't know if you can play Messi on the right nowadays.

He will vacate that position and then your midfielder will have to cover those gaps, and then your midfield has 1 less player.

I mean, it'll work vs league minnows and such. In the big games, I think it's a tactical problem.
 
I'm as big a fan of Ronaldo you will find. He's as close to an idol I've ever had in my life.

But please, guys. Messi was never going to be able to do anything tonight. Football is a team game and Barcona, once that their psychological health was gone after the 4-1, was just an easy prey. The difference is 99,99% of the teams take the foot off the gas after the 4-1. Bayern didn't and it was too easy to wreck Barcelona.

I can find a lot of times where Messi could've done better, tonight is not the right night to destroy him. He can't do it all alone. He's been the heart in soul of this team for 13 14 years. He's saved their ass numerous times. Barça were doomed the moment they got Bayern.

I actually feel sorry for him. He deserves much better than this Barcelona team as it stands. Kinda like Ronaldo at Juventus.

I know a lot of you guys will make valid points, but he's the best Barcelona player right now by miles, and he's pulled his weight for 15 years. I really do feel for him.
That much I agree. He is head and shoulders above any Barca player.

They have a good collection of individual players but they just have been shambolic.
 
If you don't put in the work you have to score and assist. if you're failing to do that, you need to run and hustle. Suarez initially wasn't pressing, but even he realized that he needed to put in some yards because that's how it works. You can't just walk around, not impact the game, and then be fully absolved.

It's fine saying it's not totally his fault, but then don't absolve him for having next to no impact in ANY area of the game.

Messi isn't fully absolved of blame but at the same time, Barca's problems are far bigger and deeper than any running and pressing on the pitch will do that's all.
 
I rate Ronaldo higher than Messi but there's no fcking way this game is on him. He could have done a lot more but they all looked like they were chilling in a training session
 
Messi created three or four clear cut chances today that his teammates weren't able to convert. Don't think he has anything to be ashamed about. It's the same with their loss to Liverpool last season. As an individual he was excellent, but let down by the rest.
 
You guys did this last year when they got shown up by Liverpool. And it seems to be a common theme whenever Barca lose, and not just on the caf either. Who was the only one creating chances and getting shots on target? Him. He has so spoilt us with his brilliance that he can put balls on a plate for his teammates and do everything but score and when Barca lose it’s his fault.
 
in sports, that's what happens. That's how GOATs are judged: your team loses, gets humiliated like LeBron James; a GOAT-wannabe takes the blame for QUITTING..Messi quit today..disgraceful..another GOAT-wannabe named CR7 too many times has just refused to lose...like he refused to lose against Spain in 2018 and so many times.
So much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.
 
Messi isn't fully absolved of blame but at the same time, Barca's problems are far bigger and deeper than any running and pressing on the pitch will do that's all.
True, I don't disagree. However you could apply that context to his teammates as well and then just absolve everyone, since the structural problems run so deep.

I'd rather just focus on his individual performance today, and it wasn't good enough for him to simply be walking around the pitch.
 
I don't know if you can play Messi on the right nowadays.

He will vacate that position and then your midfielder will have to cover those gaps, and then your midfield has 1 less player.

I mean, it'll work vs league minnows and such. In the big games, I think it's a tactical problem.

Personally I'd have him as a 10 these days too but honestly his work rate is about the same as Mahrez and only slightly behind Salah's (both of whom contribute nothing defensively) except the odd half hearted closing down. Leo is the same and always has been he's just worse offensively. He needs legs though to do his donkey work and always has. There was a reason Dani Alves was said to have a great engine and having Xavi/ Iniesta meant Barca were rarely without the ball. He never have been the player he was in any other team because he wouldn't have played the way he did.

Sadly he's not the player he once was so he will get called out on it a lot more, but Messi has never offered anything in the form of defensive help and always had someone else doing his share. hence things like the Paulinho signing.
 
People blame the team around him every time he fails & yet says he wont fail when playing for different teams.

Like what the f... :lol:
 
True, I don't disagree. However you could apply that context to his teammates as well and then just absolve everyone, since the structural problems run so deep.

I'd rather just focus on his individual performance today, and it wasn't good enough for him to simply be walking around the pitch.

It's definitely much bigger than one or 2 of his teammates too. It's simply the way of building and managing the team from up to bottom that ended up with them in such state.
 
2018 and 2019 were huge missed chances for him, this year they had no chance regardless of what he did

Pjanic will prove to be an awful signing btw. It will solve literally nothing about what's currently wrong with their team, it will probably even make it worse. I don't see them getting better any time soon without a huge squad overhaul.
 
Personally I'd have him as a 10 these days too but honestly his work rate is about the same as Mahrez and only slightly behind Salah's (both of whom contribute nothing defensively) except the odd half hearted closing down. Leo is the same and always has been he's just worse offensively. He needs legs though to do his donkey work and always has. There was a reason Dani Alves was said to have a great engine and having Xavi/ Iniesta meant Barca were rarely without the ball. He never have been the player he was in any other team because he wouldn't have played the way he did.

Sadly he's not the player he once was so he will get called out on it a lot more, but Messi has never offered anything in the form of defensive help and always had someone else doing his share. hence things like the Paulinho signing.

Thing is you put him as a 10, and your midfield is outnumbered off the bat right away.

I think Messi's work-rate is worse than both Mahrez's and Salah's.

He definitely needs legs/runners around him, but he would have to take a massive wage cut too.
 
That much I agree. He is head and shoulders above any Barca player.

They have a good collection of individual players but they just have been shambolic.

I don't think they do, I wouldn't take a single Barca player over their alternative at City right now cept maybe the keeper. They are a shambles. I'd even have Otamendi ahead of Pique. Barca have to be one of the worst run clubs in Europe since they lost Txhiki and Ferran Soriano. If Messi was to leave that team would struggle to get in the CL places in Spain.
 
Think he needs to be played in the middle as a #10 in these kind of games. His time out on the right against these high intensity, top quality sides, is over. If he won't or can't run, and the ball's not coming to him, he's compromising his flank and leaving both his RCM and RB in the shitter. With the RCM dropping out to the flank, the gaping holes through the midfield make Barca porous as you like.

You can't have such an aged and immobile front line up against these kind of teams. Don't think Messi should leave, and I also doubt many clubs would take him and his wage on, but it's high time this team were disbanded. Put legs all around Messi and essentially turn him into the super saijin version of Riquelme.
 
Personally I'd have him as a 10 these days too but honestly his work rate is about the same as Mahrez and only slightly behind Salah's (both of whom contribute nothing defensively) except the odd half hearted closing down. Leo is the same and always has been he's just worse offensively. He needs legs though to do his donkey work and always has. There was a reason Dani Alves was said to have a great engine and having Xavi/ Iniesta meant Barca were rarely without the ball. He never have been the player he was in any other team because he wouldn't have played the way he did.

Sadly he's not the player he once was so he will get called out on it a lot more, but Messi has never offered anything in the form of defensive help and always had someone else doing his share. hence things like the Paulinho signing.
I dont see how hed struggle as a false 9 in your team.
 
Hes a dumbass if he doesnt leave.
I think he’ll really struggle outside of Barcelona.

He will be way too high maintenance for most other clubs, to have to rearrange their entire tactical set up to accommodate him. Also, I seriously doubt he’ll be able to make the emotional transition, or it would take him at least a year, which would be a complete waste for any club to take on.

Remember that Ronaldo has been ‘on the road’ for his entire career. Knowing how to uproot yourself and quickly establish yourself in a new workplace and culture is a massive skill in itself.
 
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Thing is you put him as a 10, and your midfield is outnumbered off the bat right away.

I think Messi's work-rate is worse than both Mahrez's and Salah's.

He definitely needs legs/runners around him, but he would have to take a massive wage cut too.

Big pay cut for sure. The thing is a no. 10 is probably the place on the pitch you can get a way without all the running these days (unless your coach is Jose). It also depends on the teams playstyle and how much of the ball they generally have in big games. He'd be a better fit under Pep than he would under someone like Ole who plays at break neck speed etc.. The problem for Messi is his options of that kind of team are limited. Theres no value in a huge money move for him to someone like City, United or PSG outside of maybe two seasons and his wage would cripple them for ffp.
 
Think he needs to be played in the middle as a #10 in these kind of games. His time out on the right against these high intensity, top quality sides, is over. If he won't or can't run, and the ball's not coming to him, he's compromising his flank and leaving both his RCM and RB in the shitter. With the RCM dropping out to the flank, the gaping holes through the midfield make Barca porous as you like.

You can't have such an aged and immobile front line up against these kind of teams. Don't think Messi should leave, and I also doubt many clubs would take him and his wage on, but it's high time this team were disbanded. Put legs all around Messi and essentially turn him into the super saijin version of Riquelme.

If you play him as a #10 though, you're outnumbered in midfield right off the bat.

I actually think you'd have to go back to using him as a false 9.

But he hasn't played that role in years.
 
Hes been walking too much without the ball for years now. Unless Barca put 4 men in CM then Messi plus 2 others in a 3 gets over ran time and time again.
Busquets hasnt the legs to cover ground and they get absolutely smashed every season as theyre put out.
Its weird. Its like fans only realise this when it happens but when Messi is bailing them out mid November we get fans saying no way they have big problems, theyre 1st in La Liga.
Yet again teams play a high line and crowd that midfield because they have lost all pace up front.
People say he can play deeper as he gets older but he never does enough without the ball to warrant it.
 
Honest question, why is he captain?

This to be honest, it’s not his fault Barca lost, but you expect your captain to be a leader on the pitch. Messi offers precious little on that front. Best player should not mean you are automatically captain.
 
Messi is the captain of Barcelona of course he has a impact on the team losing this badly. Your captain should be there motivating the team all game to atleast not allow this demolition. Your telling me he looked a leader or captain out there?
 
One player can’t carry a team this far, not in the modern game. He’s still brilliant. Barcelona are a disaster right now, no single player can turn it around. We’d better hope he doesn’t decide to have a couple of years at Man City, we’ll soon regret this Barcelona schadenfreude.
 
Hes been walking too much without the ball for years now. Unless Barca put 4 men in CM then Messi plus 2 others in a 3 gets over ran time and time again.
Busquets hasnt the legs to cover ground and they get absolutely smashed every season as theyre put out.
Its weird. Its like fans only realise this when it happens but when Messi is bailing them out mid November we get fans saying no way they have big problems, theyre 1st in La Liga.
Yet again teams play a high line and crowd that midfield because they have lost all pace up front.
People say he can play deeper as he gets older but he never does enough without the ball to warrant it.
Jeez imagine your midfielder walking like that for the whole match of a CL Quarter final... no way Messi can play deeper without some kind of special system just for him.
 
It's definitely much bigger than one or 2 of his teammates too. It's simply the way of building and managing the team from up to bottom that ended up with them in such state.
I don't disagree generally. I just think on the night he was individually culpable as well as the rest of his teammates.
 
I dont see how hed struggle as a false 9 in your team.
Agreed, I think he'd slot in and thrive. I think the same for Liverpool and PSG. Any other team and tactically it may be difficult to get it to work smoothly.
 
Jeez imagine your midfielder walking like that for the whole match of a CL Quarter final... no way Messi can play deeper without some kind of special system just for him.
Pogba gets shit on for being a bit lazy without the ball but Messi is 10x worse.
I know hes great at picking passes but get him closer to the box in these games. Get him out of the engine room.
Its that simple imo. Something has to change. Ronaldo lost his legs a bit and now he camps in the box making darting runs across defenders. He knows he cant get around the pitch anymore so he just doesn't.
Messi would be lethal as a false 9, even just a proper 9. Let him walk around without the ball, pick up little pockets and come alive when hes in dangerous positions.
 
This thread is going to be full of the American Ronaldo fans talking about irrelevant yank sportstars, being clutch and GOATS for the foreseeable :lol:
You want to throw up? Read the comments under any Michael Jordan video. (Of course he's the greatest to have played his sport but still ..)
If you needed someone to score, in order to save your life in the dying seconds of a game, it will be the great Larry Bird over a Messi one on one, all day long.

Messi just isn't clutch!