Lionel Messi

Sara125 said:
You guys did this last year when they got shown up by Liverpool. And it seems to be a common theme whenever Barca lose, and not just on the caf either. Who was the only one creating chances and getting shots on target? Him. He has so spoilt us with his brilliance that he can put balls on a plate for his teammates and do everything but score and when Barca lose it’s his fault.
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It's not exactly weird that people look to him as Barca's talisman. He's the best player ever. He'd be the talisman of any team in the world, so this isn't unique to Messi and Barca. Mbappe and Neymar have to carry that burden when PSG struggle. People always expected Ronaldo to be the one to pull Real or Juve out of a hole. Pogba gets absolutely ripped to bits on here when he's off the pace. The list goes on. It's par for the course for the best players on the planet. They're expected to show up and make a difference.

Now, Barca would have lost today no matter what. No player is going to overturn a loss like that on his own, but Messi is Barca's biggest star, their best player, their captain, their biggest goalscoring threat and their best playmaker and he didn't rally the team at all. They collectively downed tools in the end and Messi was right there with them, for the fifth consecutive year of Champions League failure.
 
sammsky1 said:
I think he’ll really struggle outside of Barcelona.

He will be way too high maintenance for most other clubs, to have to rearrange their entire tactical set up to accomplish him. I seriously doubt he’ll be able to make the emotional transition, or it would take him at least a year, which would be a complete waste for any club to take on.

Remember that Ronaldo has been ‘on the road’ for his entire career. Knowing how to uproot yourself and quickly establish yourself in a new workplace and culture is a massive skill in itself.
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I don't think so. City still have no established RW given how much Pep loves to rotate on that wing. He'd do 10x the work Mahrez or Bernardo can do off that right wing and fit right in. He'd probably win the CL too.
 
Red Stone said:
It's not exactly weird that people look to him as Barca's talisman. He's the best player ever. He'd be the talisman of any team in the world, so this isn't unique to Messi and Barca. Mbappe and Neymar have to carry that burden when PSG struggle. People always expected Ronaldo to be the one to pull Real or Juve out of a hole. Pogba gets absolutely ripped to bits on here when he's off the pace. The list goes on. It's par for the course for the best players on the planet. They're expected to show up and make a difference.

Now, Barca would have lost today no matter what. No player is going to overturn a loss like that on his own, but Messi is Barca's biggest star, their best player, their captain, their biggest goalscoring threat and their best playmaker and he didn't rally the team at all. They collectively downed tools in the end and Messi was right there with them, for the fifth consecutive year of Champions League failure.
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Sorry but I honestly don’t see people flocking to Ronaldo and Pogba threads when their respective teams lose like people do with Messi.
 
wr8_utd said:
I don't think so. City still have no established RW given how much Pep loves to rotate on that wing. He'd do 10x the work Mahrez or Bernardo can do off that right wing and fit right in. He'd probably win the CL too.
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So, if it's being said in this thread by many that Messi doesn't do much off the ball, like hardly anything, just how bad are Bernardo and Mahrez off the ball that Messi would do 10x the work?
 
Sara125 said:
Sorry but I honestly don’t see people flocking to Ronaldo and Pogba threads when their respective teams lose like people do with Messi.
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Pogba gets slated after every match, heck I've slated him in the past and still can't fecking stand his PK runup nonsense.

Ronaldo gets hounded by the Messi fanboi club as much as Messi gets flack from the Ronaldo fanboi club.
 
The shit Ronaldo would get after losing 8-2 and Messi still has fans bending over backs with respect and excuses :drool:

I'm only here because I'm tired of the Messi fanboys consistently terrorising the Ronaldo thread every chance they get.
 
MrMarcello said:
So, if it's being said in this thread by many that Messi doesn't do much off the ball, like hardly anything, just how bad are Bernardo and Mahrez off the ball that Messi would do 10x the work?
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Bernardo silva has a really good workrate
 
Red Stone said:
It's not exactly weird that people look to him as Barca's talisman. He's the best player ever. He'd be the talisman of any team in the world, so this isn't unique to Messi and Barca. Mbappe and Neymar have to carry that burden when PSG struggle. People always expected Ronaldo to be the one to pull Real or Juve out of a hole. Pogba gets absolutely ripped to bits on here when he's off the pace. The list goes on. It's par for the course for the best players on the planet. They're expected to show up and make a difference.

Now, Barca would have lost today no matter what. No player is going to overturn a loss like that on his own, but Messi is Barca's biggest star, their best player, their captain, their biggest goalscoring threat and their best playmaker and he didn't rally the team at all. They collectively downed tools in the end and Messi was right there with them, for the fifth consecutive year of Champions League failure.
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Which is most of the time.
 
MrMarcello said:
So, if it's being said in this thread by many that Messi doesn't do much off the ball, like hardly anything, just how bad are Bernardo and Mahrez off the ball that Messi would do 10x the work?
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By 10x the work I meant 10x the output and ability and performances of those two.
 
He has kept them over water despite huge incompetence from their board and ton of problems. Now chicken have come to roost.
 
trims said:
Yes like whenthey were 4-0 down against Barca at the Bernabeu in 2015 or 4-0 down against Atletico. What GOAT performances those were by Ronaldo to turn it around.

Out of curiosity, how many times has Ronaldo overturned a 3 goal deficit?
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Ronaldo has 23 Champions league goals from losing positions. In comparison Messi has 5.

He also has has brought his team back from the dead in ties or games.

You really can't even compare them in that sense.
 
mancan92 said:
Again you've never gone into those threads clearly. How can you say they don't get blamed like Messi? Pogba is far worse for example
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I have been in the Pogba thread and I’ve even been critical of him sometimes myself e.g. his inability to track back but people don’t blame him for United’s shortcomings like they do Messi with Barca. At least not to the same extent.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
If you play him as a #10 though, you're outnumbered in midfield right off the bat.

I actually think you'd have to go back to using him as a false 9.

But he hasn't played that role in years.
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Depends on whether they'd make the ultimate sacrifice and switch to a back 3 for him. It's a big ask but the only real way you get everything out of him offensively without compromising to the team defensively.

Seriously, Messi wide against this calibre of opposition at the knockout stage of next season's competition is downright negligence by now. He's done there at this level.
 
Bebestation said:
The shit Ronaldo would get after losing 8-2 and Messi still has fans bending over backs with respect and excuses :drool:

I'm only here because I'm tired of the Messi fanboys consistently terrorising the Ronaldo thread every chance they get.
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So Ronaldo faboy complaining about Messi fanboys. Sounds legit.
 
I can't believe they didn't emply Messi as a sweeper in this game to prevent them from conceding 8 goals.
 
Fortitude said:
Depends on whether they'd make the ultimate sacrifice and switch to a back 3 for him. It's a big ask but the only real way you get everything out of him offensively without compromising to the team defensively.

Seriously, Messi wide against this calibre of opposition at the knockout stage of next season's competition is downright negligence by now. He's done there at this level.
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I think that's the best way to optimize him going forward and not suffer defensively.

Using Messi on the right is suicide nowadays.
 
Not the best player in the world, it's that simple. At least go out on your shield. Most of the time he doesn't.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Ronaldo has 23 Champions league goals from losing positions. In comparison Messi has 5.

He also has has brought his team back from the dead in ties or games.

You really can't even compare them in that sense.
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Today is probably a bad reference because Bayern were going to beat Barcelona no matter what but it's very hard to argue those stats are irrelevant.
 
Lay said:
Posts like these are strange. As if over a decade of domination doesn't matter anymore and legacies for him and Ronaldo are now diminshed in their mid 30s because they're not as out of this world as they used to be :lol:
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Two champions league in ten years. "Domination".
 
padr81 said:
Pretty much the entire Bayern team would have him for breakfast. I don't understand what people want from him, he's not gonna beat 5 men 5 times and game and stick the ball in the top corner.
what exactly should he have done to try and turn the game around? Run around and kick people?

People were laughing at Jordan Henderson being in the running for player of the year for shouting and pointing, now its spread to criticizing people who don't. There was literally zero Messi could have done to change that game or any player thrught history in the same position. He had a poor game but its a game where its hard not to.
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Perhaps not drop so deep to get the ball sixty yards from goal and then repeatedly lose it would be a great start.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I think that's the best way to optimize him going forward and not suffer defensively.

Using Messi on the right is suicide nowadays.
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They have some huge decisions to make, but his decline has to be acknowledged and catered for. If he's a player they want to pay £1m a week to, they have to look to optimise him and build the team totally around him rather than fit him into the famed system he's come up and made his name with.

The #10 is a frowned on position because of it funneling too much responsibility and single point failure potential into a single player, but if they want to continue getting the output out of him, it surely has to be considered. It's also not like anyone else is justifying them keeping the system as is, as they utterly collapsed, almost to a man, today.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Ronaldo has 23 Champions league goals from losing positions. In comparison Messi has 5.

He also has has brought his team back from the dead in ties or games.

You really can't even compare them in that sense.
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I mean this is the clear difference between the two in crucial games. It's not even close in terms of turning up in the champions league.
 
Fortitude said:
They have some huge decisions to make, but his decline has to be acknowledged and catered for. If he's a player they want to pay £1m a week to, they have to look to optimise him and build the team totally around him rather than fit him into the famed system he's come up and made his name with.

The #10 is a frowned on position because of it funneling too much responsibility and single point failure potential into a single player, but if they want to continue getting the output out of him, it surely has to be considered. It's also not like anyone else is justifying them keeping the system as is, as they utterly collapsed, almost to a man, today.
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I don't know if you can even build optimally around him with his wages and the transfer failures on their books.

He'd have to take a wage cut. But good luck discussing that with him.

You think he'd be better as a #10 than as a false 9 now? I think they'd still have problems with him as a #10 during defensive phases.
 
Bebestation said:
The shit Ronaldo would get after losing 8-2 and Messi still has fans bending over backs with respect and excuses :drool:

I'm only here because I'm tired of the Messi fanboys consistently terrorising the Ronaldo thread every chance they get.
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All ye fanboys are idiots

Because the same logic in this thread applies to Ronaldo as well. They're awesome players but they are not magicians
 
Me thinks there's an actual big chance of Messi finally leaving.
 
bosnian_red said:
I mean, Aguero doesn't do shit defensively either. Mahrez is hardly good defensively either. Pep would just play him as the false 9 like he did at Barca. Peps barca was arguably the best side in history, Messi would still be amazing in that role.
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Pep had dropped Agüero and only put him back in when he began to do the work off the ball. I doubt that he’d decline a chance to get Messi for free, but he’ll still cost something around 200m and there’s no way he’ll agree to pay that much for a player.
 
Sara125 said:
Sorry but I honestly don’t see people flocking to Ronaldo and Pogba threads when their respective teams lose like people do with Messi.
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Well, it is a United forum after all, so when Pogba's team loses the vitriol gets spread around multiple threads. You'll obviously find Pogba hate in his own performance thread or some other Pogba thread, but there'll also be loads of it in the post match thread, the match thread, the Ole thread and probably several other threads when he delivers a stinker. For Messi it gets concentrated in this thread.

As for Ronaldo, when was the last time his team got eliminated from the CL with him doing absolutely nothing to try to turn the tides? Ronaldo has either won the entire tournament or scored in the round that his team got eliminated in in every edition of the tournament from 2012 to 2020. How is it fair to criticise him for that? His mentality has never been in question, win or lose. For Messi it's different. His talent is undeniable and he is the best player I've ever seen, but his mentality absolutely deserves criticism, especially when Barca lose. He doesn't influence games enough when his team is on the back foot. That's just a fact, and it's been a constant throughout his career for both club and country, but it has become more obvious in recent years as Barca have become a significantly worse team.
 
adexkola said:
All ye fanboys are idiots

Because the same logic in this thread applies to Ronaldo as well. They're awesome players but they are not magicians
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But the proof is that in these certain situations Ronaldo has proven to be more of a forceful influence. As posted above he has 23 to Messis 5 from losing positions.

That's something to discuss
 
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