Lionel Messi

adexkola said:
I don't know if he's the best player ever. I haven't seen enough football to determine that. He's definitely top 2 of his generation (I have him as best of his generation but I'm not getting into that debate here)

I'm just fighting this nonsense of him needing to show some rah rah boo yah as if that would have changed a damn thing about the result. And I severely doubt that other GOAT candidates could have had a better impact on this match given the same conditions, and even if they had a better fortitude (pun not intended) about their face, it shouldn't matter much in the grand scheme of things
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Barca were outmatched and would've lost regardless but the forwards need to run and chase in top football. Either the coach isn't instructing him to do it, or he physically can't do it, either way it was poor to watch.

That said though Setien's line up was bizarre, no creativity in the midfield and no pace in attack. How does that team ever beat Bayern? What do Roberto and Vidal even do? Don't think I noticed them actually pass a ball. The Barca defence will get stick but the midfield and attack did nothing to help them out.
 
Messi should leave. Not only for himself but for Barca, their squad needs a complete rebuild and he eats up a ridiculous amount of their wages. Barca can't function as a team, they just defer to Messi.

If Messi moves he'll still be the main man but not to the extent that he is for Barca - he needs a dynamic, energetic and funtioning team around him. It would be nice to see him play under an elite manager as his peak has been wasted under no name managers.
 
in sports, that's what happens. That's how GOATs are judged: your team loses, gets humiliated like LeBron James; a GOAT-wannabe takes the blame for QUITTING..Messi quit today..disgraceful..another GOAT-wannabe named CR7 too many times has just refused to lose...like he refused to lose against Spain in 2018 and so many times.
 
He has to run. Plain and simple. Even if you’re the best or second best player in the world, you have to run. Anything else is unforgivable. He created Barcelona’s only chances tonight, but off the ball he was tragic. In the past, Messi would hound the ball and run at the oppo again if he was dispossessed.

Him and Ronaldo are finally diminishing, and as someone who never compared them to appreciate both, that is very sad. I hope Mbappe, Mason, Davies etc can emulate these two, but I’m not holding my breath.
 
Barcelona could have had Maradona from the '86 WC inserted into this game. They wouldn't have won.

The bigger problem though is that you have structural problems around Messi now.

He is the best player in the world, but he contributes nothing in defensive phases and doesn't make as many runs off the ball.

You have to cater the entire team around him. I don't know if it's worth it considering his age.

I have the same opinion of Ronaldo too(but to an even greater extent with him).
 
Its a common trend with him when things are going tough he puts his head down and sulks and almost "gives up" Just no fire in him when the backs against the wall.

As talented as he is IMO top 3 all time you cant have this sort of attitude and be the "Goat".
 
:lol: at the CR7 fanboys coming in this thread to dance on the grave of the boogeyman.
 
Get the ball to Messi in or around the box and he's still unstoppable with those runs, Barca simply can't get it to him against this kind of opposition. Hope to God he doesn't go back to Pep because that'd be the end of us challenging for a title any time soon.
 
Peyroteo said:
Not even remotely his fault although he was pretty bad too and the difference in pressing was key to the game. Bayern just have a much better team, they should have avoided humiliation but they would have lost regardless.

I think this game might make him retire for good after the World Cup, will be interesting to see what impact it has on his future.
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Ya granted we all knew he would never play at the top level passed 35. I think he might head to Argentina soon which he always wanted.
 
I don't even blame him for giving up with that shambles around him.
 
Red Stone said:
It's absolutely a stain on his legacy. He's done his usual disappearing act again because his team is getting rinsed and he just can't be bothered with it. Without mentioning names, there are other players at the very top level of the sport that at least have the decency to stand up and try to turn the game around when shit starts hitting the fan. Barca have been knocked out after capitulating completely in the second leg of three for the last four tournaments, and got completely dominated by Juventus in the first leg of the fourth, and then they lose 8-2 today. Messi nowhere to be found in any of those games when his team needed him most. Same story for Argentina.

The fact that he's such an immensely talented footballer, with an ability to both orchestrate and finish attacks that arguably has never been seen before in the history of the sport makes it even worse. He should have the ability to make a difference whenever he wants to, but his mentality when the going gets rough leaves so much to be desired. Every player Laudrup ever played with said he was the best player they'd ever seen, but he just didn't have that fire in him that most truly legendary players have. I fear Messi is going to end up with a similar reputation, while rightfully also being considered most talented player ever to play the game.
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Pretty much the entire Bayern team would have him for breakfast. I don't understand what people want from him, he's not gonna beat 5 men 5 times and game and stick the ball in the top corner.
what exactly should he have done to try and turn the game around? Run around and kick people?

People were laughing at Jordan Henderson being in the running for player of the year for shouting and pointing, now its spread to criticizing people who don't. There was literally zero Messi could have done to change that game or any player thrught history in the same position. He had a poor game but its a game where its hard not to.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Barcelona could have had Maradona from the '86 WC inserted into this game. They wouldn't have won.
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They may have lost only 4-8 with Ronnie though, banging them in from 40 yards or powering through with a couple goals. But year no singular swap is gonna fix the endless issues with every single one of their losses in the past 3 years.

Though actually, Barca only a goal away from the CL final last year, so maybe there a swap would of worked in their favour :lol:
 
Played with his head down today. To be fair the game was over in the first half, but as captain he was nowhere to be found
 
I want to see him in other leagues now, whether he is up for it or not in his years is a big question mark, because he definitely doesn't look like someone with big ambitions at the moment. But he obviously still has it to turn the top4 side into a league winner or serious CL contender. For his own sake he should probably pick weaker league such as Serie A, but it would be interesting to see him in PL.
 
K_Ash said:
in sports, that's what happens. That's how GOATs are judged: your team loses, gets humiliated like LeBron James; a GOAT-wannabe takes the blame for QUITTING..Messi quit today..disgraceful..another GOAT-wannabe named CR7 too many times has just refused to lose...like he refused to lose against Spain in 2018 and so many times.
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Did he refuse to lose ag... Nope. Not having that conversation here

Also, I'm American but if ever there was something to curse about this country it's the stupid individualistic narratives around success and defeat in sport. No doubt some eejits who watched the Last Dance 2 weeks ago will be having fun now

Red Stone said:
It's absolutely a stain on his legacy. He's done his usual disappearing act again because his team is getting rinsed and he just can't be bothered with it. Without mentioning names, there are other players at the very top level of the sport that at least have the decency to stand up and try to turn the game around when shit starts hitting the fan. Barca have been knocked out after capitulating completely in the second leg of three for the last four tournaments, and got completely dominated by Juventus in the first leg of the fourth, and then they lose 8-2 today. Messi nowhere to be found in any of those games when his team needed him most. Same story for Argentina.

The fact that he's such an immensely talented footballer, with an ability to both orchestrate and finish attacks that arguably has never been seen before in the history of the sport makes it even worse. He should have the ability to make a difference whenever he wants to, but his mentality when the going gets rough leaves so much to be desired. Every player Laudrup ever played with said he was the best player they'd ever seen, but he just didn't have that fire in him that most truly legendary players have. I fear Messi is going to end up with a similar reputation, while rightfully also being considered most talented player ever to play the game.
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No offense but no one who actually knows a lot about the game considers this a stain on his legacy. He could have run 20 km tonight but no one cares about the losers eh?
 
some of you are either joking or you actually believe these kind of total demolitions are dependable on whether a certain player is playing 5/10 or 10/10 game. crazy.
 
RashyForPM said:
He has to run. Plain and simple. Even if you’re the best or second best player in the world, you have to run. Anything else is unforgivable. He created Barcelona’s only chances tonight, but off the ball he was tragic. In the past, Messi would hound the ball and run at the oppo again if he was dispossessed.

Him and Ronaldo are finally diminishing, and as someone who never compared them to appreciate both, that is very sad. I hope Mbappe, Mason, Davies etc can emulate these two, but I’m not holding my breath.
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No he doesn't, he didn't run or do any donkey work throughout his entire career. Guardiola even said there is a reason for that and why he encouraged it Put him in the Bayern team or the City team or on the right wing for Liverpool and he'd be absolutely fine.

Your last sentence is very true though, we are starting to see the decline of them both (have been for maybe two years) and I think Leo will be the first one out. He looks like he has no love for football at the minute.
 
"Refuse to lose" :lol:

These people are mental. You get them in the NFL/NBA threads too. They don't understand the concept of team sports.
 
VorZakone said:
He's slowly becoming a villain with his wages and lack of work ethic on the pitch without justification.
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My question would be how many goals and assists do you have to get per season to basically not put any defensive work in and still justify €600k per week?
 
Are people really blaming him for today's result ?

Barca lost 8-2 and got humiliated last 2 years because they're simply run and managed in a shambolic way. Their transfer policy and managerial appointment have been the worst among top clubs around, really.

Barca are a club in an absolute disaster and he's the only reason they're still any kind of relevant.
 
padr81 said:
No he doesn't, he didn't run or do any donkey work throughout his entire career. Guardiola even said there is a reason for that and why he encouraged it Put him in the Bayern team or the City team or on the right wing for Liverpool and he'd be absolutely fine.

Your last sentence is very true though, we are starting to see the decline of them both (have been for maybe two years) and I think Leo will be the first one out. He looks like he has no love for football at the minute.
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Messi would be fine, but would the team be the same? It wouldn't. The entire dynamics of the team change.
 
MalcolmTucker said:
Messi should leave. Not only for himself but for Barca, their squad needs a complete rebuild and he eats up a ridiculous amount of their wages. Barca can't function as a team, they just defer to Messi.

If Messi moves he'll still be the main man but not to the extent that he is for Barca - he needs a dynamic, energetic and funtioning team around him. It would be nice to see him play under an elite manager as his peak has been wasted under no name managers.
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Would be madness for him to leave now. He basically runs the club, trousers over 1m a week, and has his whole legacy there.

Unlike Ronaldo, you can't see him popping up somewhere else and bossing it.
 
The big issue with Messi is the lack of pressing and energy.

All the other leadership stuff is trivial compared to that - but just played up by Yanks who haven't kicked a ball in their lives. Throwing tantrums like Ronaldo would not have prevented this.
 
padr81 said:
Pretty much the entire Bayern team would have him for breakfast. I don't understand what people want from him, he's not gonna beat 5 men 5 times and game and stick the ball in the top corner.
what exactly should he have done to try and turn the game around? Run around and kick people?

People were laughing at Jordan Henderson being in the running for player of the year for shouting and pointing, now its spread to criticizing people who don't. There was literally zero Messi could have done to change that game or any player thrught history in the same position. He had a poor game but its a game where its hard not to.
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adexkola said:
No offense but no one who actually knows a lot about the game considers this a stain on his legacy. He could have run 20 km tonight but no one cares about the losers eh?
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But it's not just tonight. Stop acting like it is. It's happened year after year now. Barca (or Argentina) get absolutely smashed and Messi looks like he'd rather be anywhere else instead of standing up and looking like he wants to make a difference. At the end of the day, when the important games come around and his team goes crashing out with his influence equalling zilch it's absolutely ludicrous to suggest it doesn't at least lessen his legacy somewhat.
 
I'm as big a fan of Ronaldo you will find. He's as close to an idol I've ever had in my life.

But please, guys. Messi was never going to be able to do anything tonight. Football is a team game and Barcona, once that their psychological health was gone after the 4-1, was just an easy prey. The difference is 99,99% of the teams take the foot off the gas after the 4-1. Bayern didn't and it was too easy to wreck Barcelona.

I can find a lot of times where Messi could've done better, tonight is not the right night to destroy him. He can't do it all alone. He's been the heart in soul of this team for 13 14 years. He's saved their ass numerous times. Barça were doomed the moment they got Bayern.

I actually feel sorry for him. He deserves much better than this Barcelona team as it stands. Kinda like Ronaldo at Juventus.

I know a lot of you guys will make valid points, but he's the best Barcelona player right now by miles, and he's pulled his weight for 15 years. I really do feel for him.
 
Red Stone said:
It's absolutely a stain on his legacy. He's done his usual disappearing act again because his team is getting rinsed and he just can't be bothered with it. Without mentioning names, there are other players at the very top level of the sport that at least have the decency to stand up and try to turn the game around when shit starts hitting the fan. Barca have been knocked out after capitulating completely in the second leg of three for the last four tournaments, and got completely dominated by Juventus in the first leg of the fourth, and then they lose 8-2 today. Messi nowhere to be found in any of those games when his team needed him most. Same story for Argentina.
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Usual disappearing act?

He must have the highest collection of medals in football history. :lol:

One man however good can't take on a powerhouse team all in top form.
 
This thread is going to be full of the American Ronaldo fans talking about irrelevant yank sportstars, being clutch and GOATS for the foreseeable :lol:
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Messi would be fine, but would the team be the same? It wouldn't. The entire dynamics of the team change.
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I dunno, I think you can carry Messi's lack of defensive effort in any of those squads. Mahrez plays there for City (lazy bastard), Salah is the only Liverpool player who gets called lazy and doesn't really have to get involved defensively thugh he does press when they are high. Bayern seem to have 11 who run themselves into the ground though. I think every team would be better with Messi on the RW than without despite whatever tweaks they have to make.
 
padr81 said:
Pretty much the entire Bayern team would have him for breakfast. I don't understand what people want from him, he's not gonna beat 5 men 5 times and game and stick the ball in the top corner.
what exactly should he have done to try and turn the game around? Run around and kick people?

People were laughing at Jordan Henderson being in the running for player of the year for shouting and pointing, now its spread to criticizing people who don't. There was literally zero Messi could have done to change that game or any player thrught history in the same position. He had a poor game but its a game where its hard not to.
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Jesus Christ it all makes sense now

No wonder Roy of the Rovers is actually a thing
 
K_Ash said:
in sports, that's what happens. That's how GOATs are judged: your team loses, gets humiliated like LeBron James; a GOAT-wannabe takes the blame for QUITTING..Messi quit today..disgraceful..another GOAT-wannabe named CR7 too many times has just refused to lose...like he refused to lose against Spain in 2018 and so many times.
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Wrong sport mate.
 
Some absurdly embarrassing takes in here from those who don't follow team sports for what they are.
 
K_Ash said:
in sports, that's what happens. That's how GOATs are judged: your team loses, gets humiliated like LeBron James; a GOAT-wannabe takes the blame for QUITTING..Messi quit today..disgraceful..another GOAT-wannabe named CR7 too many times has just refused to lose...like he refused to lose against Spain in 2018 and so many times.
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Yes like whenthey were 4-0 down against Barca at the Bernabeu in 2015 or 4-0 down against Atletico. What GOAT performances those were by Ronaldo to turn it around.

Out of curiosity, how many times has Ronaldo overturned a 3 goal deficit?
 
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