Lionel Messi

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Addict said:
Come on Brwned just admit that you're a Liverpool fan. The 7-1 win over Roma was far better than Liverpool's lucky 5-0 win over Madrid.
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Meant to make it obvious I was going for sarcasm there, Liverpool never beat Madrid 5-0. I then realised that he meant over two legs, and feel a bit stupid now.

And yeah, our 7-1 win was far better. Total domination on our part, not the same for Liverpool. Real Madrid had 58% possession against Liverpool.
 
Alright STOP! Hammer time.......


Ok scenario time.

United and Barca make it to the champions league final.

Ronaldo plays an absolute brilliant games, scoring and assisting, ripping Barca to the shit house, while Carrick keeps Messi in his pocket all night.

Final result 2-0 United.


Who do we determine is the best player in the world? Messi would have had a blinder of a season, but choked in a big game, but Ronaldo's had a mediocre by his standards, but shows up.

Who would then be crowned world player of the year?
 
:lol: That's a shit scenario (Carrick keeping Messi in his pocket specially) but anyway I'd still go for Messi without a doubt.It's all about the consistency of an entire season and Ronaldo would have been not as good as him overall
 
marchi-91 said:
Alright STOP! Hammer time.......


Ok scenario time.

United and Barca make it to the champions league final.

Ronaldo plays an absolute brilliant games, scoring and assisting, ripping Barca to the shit house, while Carrick keeps Messi in his pocket all night.

Final result 2-0 United.

Who do we determine is the best player in the world? Messi would have had a blinder of a season, but choked in a big game, but Ronaldo's had a mediocre by his standards, but shows up.

Who would then be crowned world player of the year?
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You're not seriously asking that question?

No-one sane would go for Ronaldo.
 
marchi-91 said:
Kaka 06/07. Many consider Ronaldo to have been the better play all season, but kaka lifted in the CL.
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He got that on the basis of a number of great Champions League performances, not just in the final.

Ronaldo only scored 3 goals in that Champions League season, which didn't help. And he wasn't a standout performer in any of those games, but he was brilliant against Roma.

Kaka on the other hand was a standout in a fair few, and was the top scorer in it. He was great throughout the competition, Ronaldo hasn't been great throughout the CL this season.

Messi's already been the best player on the pitch in most of Barca's CL games, and is the top scorer in the CL.

The situations are entirely different.
 
marchi-91 said:
Kaka 06/07. Many consider Ronaldo to have been the better play all season, but kaka lifted in the CL.
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There are no absolute truth but just opinions.
Just because some thought Kaka "undeservedly" won those awards it doesn't mean the same will be applied to Messi because he's at a level this season that only his own team mates could challenge him for awards
 
Brwned said:
You're not seriously asking that question?

No-one sane would go for Ronaldo.
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But then most of the people who vote for these things just invariably watch a couple of the big games and make their mind up. Also depends who the media bandwagon get behind, that influences people as well.

Messi should win it comfortably this year though.
 
Psmith said:
But then most of the people who vote for these things just invariably watch a couple of the big games and make their mind up. Also depends who the media bandwagon get behind, that influences people as well.

Messi should win it comfortably this year though.
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Can't see the media getting behind Ronaldo this season somehow, and the fact that Messi's the top scorer in the CL will be just as important to those people as how they performed in the one or two big games they seen.
 
marchi-91 said:
Alright STOP! Hammer time.......


Ok scenario time.

United and Barca make it to the champions league final.

Ronaldo plays an absolute brilliant games, scoring and assisting, ripping Barca to the shit house, while Carrick keeps Messi in his pocket all night.

Final result 2-0 United.


Who do we determine is the best player in the world? Messi would have had a blinder of a season, but choked in a big game, but Ronaldo's had a mediocre by his standards, but shows up.

Who would then be crowned world player of the year?
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It should be Messi, just as it should've been Ronaldo 2 years ago.
 
this ronaldo vs messi controversy is ridiculous

this season, ronaldo didn't play 10 percent of what he did last season, and that's undisputable

that's the reason why messi is this season best player, and that's undisputable too

now, if you ask me who i prefer, ronaldo from last year or messi from this year i have to say ronaldo without a doubt

ronaldo is a more complete player that messi and while playing for portugal he has proven he doesn't need to be surrounded by the likes of etoo, henry, xavi, iniesta and alves like messi does, or do you forget how messi performs for argentina? he's not half the player he's for barcelona
 
marcosdeto said:
this ronaldo vs messi controversy is ridiculous

this season, ronaldo didn't play 10 percent of what he did last season, and that's undisputable

that's the reason why messi is this season best player, and that's undisputable too

now, if you ask me who i prefer, ronaldo from last year or messi from this year i have to say ronaldo without a doubt

ronaldo is a more complete player that messi and while playing for portugal he has proven he doesn't need to be surrounded by the likes of etoo, henry, xavi, iniesta and alves like messi does, or do you forget how messi performs for argentina? he's not half the player he's for barcelona
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I'd go with that, Marcos.
 
marchi-91 said:
Alright STOP! Hammer time.......


Ok scenario time.

United and Barca make it to the champions league final.

Ronaldo plays an absolute brilliant games, scoring and assisting, ripping Barca to the shit house, while Carrick keeps Messi in his pocket all night.

Final result 2-0 United.


Who do we determine is the best player in the world? Messi would have had a blinder of a season, but choked in a big game, but Ronaldo's had a mediocre by his standards, but shows up.

Who would then be crowned world player of the year?
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Ronaldo... winning the biggest matches is what defines that greatest players.
 
marcosdeto said:
this ronaldo vs messi controversy is ridiculous

this season, ronaldo didn't play 10 percent of what he did last season, and that's undisputable

that's the reason why messi is this season best player, and that's undisputable too

now, if you ask me who i prefer, ronaldo from last year or messi from this year i have to say ronaldo without a doubt

ronaldo is a more complete player that messi and while playing for portugal he has proven he doesn't need to be surrounded by the likes of etoo, henry, xavi, iniesta and alves like messi does, or do you forget how messi performs for argentina? he's not half the player he's for barcelona
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Spot on
 
marcosdeto said:
this season, ronaldo didn't play 10 percent of what he did last season, and that's undisputable
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I don't agree with that, last season he was a great goal scorer but the season before he was a great player. I don't think his general performances were all that but it seemed everytime he got a chance he would more often than not put it away however the season before he was doing everything, taking people on, scoring and setting up goals. Stats won't back my argument up but I think he was better the season before.
 
dumbo said:
Are you talking about when Ronaldo lost to a functional Greece in the biggest game of his career?

That's a cheap shot.
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Main reason why he didn't win the WPoTY till last year, could have won it in 04 had he won that game against Greece.
 
marchi-91 said:
Who do we determine is the best player in the world? Messi would have had a blinder of a season, but choked in a big game, but Ronaldo's had a mediocre by his standards, but shows up.

Who would then be crowned world player of the year?
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Messi will be and rightly so.

But in the past, players like Zidane and Kaka have had less than fantastic seasons and have shown up in big games to win the award.

IMO having a great season overall should be of more value than showing up for 1 or 2 big games. A team needs to get into the big game first and foremost. Getting to the final of a CL or World cup is probably a far bigger challenge than winning the one final big game itself.

However, the hype around Messi is already at a such a high level that he will win the award even if he doesn't play another match for rest of the season. Eto'o and Xavi are probably as deserving a nomination as Messi for this year's award IMO.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Thus what United did to them......

This will help.
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Bullshit. The sentence that word was used in was fine.

cesc's_mullet said:
And please refrain from ever telling other people they need to learn english ever again, thanks.
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I will tell that to whoever I want. Starting with you. I don't give a feck what you think about that.
 
Brwned said:
Doni > Butt

Panucci > Oddo
Mexes < Demichelis
Chivu >> Breno
Cassetti = Lell

Mancini < Schweinsteiger
Pizzaro = Van Bommel
De Rossi > Ze Roberto
Wilhelmsson << Ribery

Totti > Toni
Vucinic > Altintop

To put it simply, Roma are better right through the spine of their team, and that's what makes the difference.
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Totti was better considering his class when he was it his best several years ago. Toni is better now. Its like Gerrard being better than Scholes now.

and WTF...Pizzaro = Van Bommel (two time Dutch footballer of the year, Bayern player of the year and their first non German captain) ? :wenger:
 
kouroux said:
What else could it be anyway chief ? It's all about personal opinions and I tend to agree with him
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By all means agree with him if you feel convinced. It's your prerogative. I respectfully disagree simply because Messi lacks Ronaldo's all round game. Despite being far superior on the ball. Ronaldo at his best can do damage in more ways than Messi currently can. Of this I have no doubt.


On another note I feel too many folk underrate Ronaldo's all around game a lot. At his best ( i.e teh last 3 seasons) he has shown he has the eye for pass, the intelligence to master mind counter attacks, can cross excellently, is supreme in the air, can beat men easily and moves better of the ball than anyone around. On top of being a top notch finisher, with a venomous shot who is completely two footed and super fast. As good as Messi is he doesn't possess all these weapons together.
 
The notion of "at his best" is funny cause with that every player could be considered as world class and this isn't directly aimed at Ronaldo Chief but a general analysis
 
marcosdeto said:
this ronaldo vs messi controversy is ridiculous

this season, ronaldo didn't play 10 percent of what he did last season, and that's undisputable

that's the reason why messi is this season best player, and that's undisputable too

now, if you ask me who i prefer, ronaldo from last year or messi from this year i have to say ronaldo without a doubt

ronaldo is a more complete player that messi and while playing for portugal he has proven he doesn't need to be surrounded by the likes of etoo, henry, xavi, iniesta and alves like messi does, or do you forget how messi performs for argentina? he's not half the player he's for barcelona
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I think you've forgotten that Portugal have been playing like shite recently, with Ronaldo looking particularly anonymous. I'd say from what I've seen, and I do watch the South American qualifying too, Messi performs far more impressively for his country, even if he isn't reaching the heights of his Barca performances

I also disagree with your 'most complete player' assessment. If you mean it as simplistically as Ronaldo being able to head a ball too, fair enough. I'd say Messi has the most talent though, the greater skill to his game

But I agree with the rest. It's ridiculous to suggest anyone other than Ronaldo was the best footballer last year, because he was by some distance. And it's ridiculous to suggest anyone other than Messi is the best footballer this year, because again, he is by some distance. Alas we have some ridiculous posters on here
 
kouroux said:
What else could it be anyway chief ? It's all about personal opinions and I tend to agree with him
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Messi has been far more dominant this season certainly compared to Ronaldo last season but -

1) He has 4 of the world's best attacking players in great form alongside him. The attacking play of Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Eto'o and Alves gets Messi clean through on goal or in so many one on one situations inside the box. How often did Ronaldo have that luxury last season ? At his best, even Alves is probably a better dribbler and can go past more players than anyone else at our club last season bar Ronaldo.

Can Messi carry a weaker attack with some aging class players who play at half the pace they used to at their best, some average players with really just one other top class attacking talent alongside him who wasn't in great form either ?

2) Have Barca won anything yet ?
 
Instant Karma said:
Messi has been far more dominant this season certainly compared to Ronaldo last season but -

1) He has 4 of the world's best attacking players in great form alongside him. The attacking play of Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Eto'o and Alves gets Messi clean through on goal or in so many one on one situations inside the box. How often did Ronaldo have that luxury last season ? At his best, even Alves is probably a better dribbler and can go past more players than anyone else at our club last season bar Ronaldo.

Can Messi carry a weaker attack with some aging class players who play at half the pace they used to at their best, some average players with really just one other top class attacking talent alongside him who wasn't in great form either ?

2) Have Barca won anything yet ?
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1) Ronaldo last season wasn't in a shit team.He was playing in the best club of the world. You can also include the number of times Messi has been creating spaces for himself or his team mates, the goals he scores are not tap ins and are technically impressive most of the time.

2) Basing the quality of a player on the success of his team is completely irrelevant because football is a team game after all so successes/failures are the results of everyone's work.
 
kouroux said:
1) Ronaldo last season wasn't in a shit team.He was playing in the best club of the world. You can also include the number of times Messi has been creating spaces for himself or his team mates, the goals he scores are not tap ins and are technically impressive most of the time.

2) Basing the quality of a player on the success of his team is completely irrelevant because football is a team game after all so successes/failures are the results of everyone's work.
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1) We were the best club in the world because Ronaldo and an incredible defense carried us. Our other attacking or midfield players would have struggled to get into the top 10 players in the world list based on the form they showed last season. Whereas Eto'o, Henry, Xavi and Iniesta would make that list based on their form this season.

2) When Barca are rampant, Messi is a genius and the main reason inspite of having 4 others on the team who are currently best in the world in their positions. When they fail, its a team game ?

When United are rampant with forwards, midfielders bar Ronaldo struggling to be among the best players in the world bracket its a team game/victory and when we fail, its because Ronaldo doesn't track back.
 
Instant Karma said:
1) We were the best club in the world because Ronaldo and an incredible defense carried us. Our other attacking or midfield players would have struggled to get into the top 10 players in the world list based on the form they showed last season. Whereas Eto'o, Henry, Xavi and Iniesta would quite easily make that list based on their form this season.

2) When Barca are rampant, Messi is a genius and the main reason. When they fail, its a team game ?
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1) No surprise that you think really as you underrate incredibly some of our players.
2) You would never that nonsense from me. Success/failure are part of a team's work.
 
kouroux said:
1) No surprise that you think really as you underrate incredibly some of our players.
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Eto'o so far this season has been far superior to Rooney last season.
Henry so far this season has been far superior to Giggs was last season.
Iniesta and Xavi so far this season have superior to Scholes/Carrick last season.

Some of our players last season were overrated by our fans even though they were carried by the worlds best player and a phenomenal defense. Will any of our other midfield/attacking players from last season actually walk into the Barca team now ?

All these are as obvious as Messi having a far more influential season this time around.

Barca's weakness this season is not in attack but in defence and Chelsea may exploit that.
 
JazzG said:
I don't agree with that, last season he was a great goal scorer but the season before he was a great player. I don't think his general performances were all that but it seemed everytime he got a chance he would more often than not put it away however the season before he was doing everything, taking people on, scoring and setting up goals. Stats won't back my argument up but I think he was better the season before.
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Actually stats would back you up. In the season you talked about he created goals almost as much as he scored them.
 
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