Lionel Messi

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reddevilcanada said:
So at his best, Rooney is just a good player in the premiership? I think your bias against him is a tad too obvious for your posts to be taken seriously when talking about Rooney. I didn't say he has been as good as messi, but in terms of talent and potential, there's not much between him, messi and Ronaldo.
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Nope..another deluded post against Messi. Rooney around 04/05 was rated higher than Messi as he was delivering against men whilst even when Messi in 2004 looked more devastating he was predominantly doing it against boys and reserves. For his talent its hardly took much time for him to graduate into Barca's first team and establish himself even when Ronaldinho, Eto, Xavi and Deco were in the pomp whilst over a period time it became apparent Rooney had a lot to improve.

Ronaldo and Rooney in full form are comparable to each other either in terms of talent or end product, Rooney has a better temperament and Ronaldo more skilled but Messi is some player. Not deriding any of our players here but if any one still questions Messi's ability he should be completely retarded.
 
Gerrard amongst three best players in the world ...he he..

He's nothing if not for scousers rigging internet polls and inward looking rambings from the xeophobic media. I dont think the quality of football has gone so shite to rate him up there with the best.

May be had Kewell remained injury free and mentally stable, he would've become a bigger legend than Gerrard....I think.
 
IK's disappeared. I guess we don't see him for a couple of days. he only posts when Ronaldo is playing well and Rooney is not.
 
B9 from YAWN said:
this thread possibly has the most fail of all on the caf.
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I've created a monster.

What was meant to be a humble thread about Messi, and what/if people thought he'd develop into as a player has turned into a gargantuan beast of horrible proportions.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
I've created a monster.

What was meant to be a humble thread about Messi, and what/if people thought he'd develop into as a player has turned into a gargantuan beast of horrible proportions.
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It's peoples farcical indignation that anyone could possibly be thought of as better than Ronaldo that created this monster. Nothing to do with me ;)
 
It was Cal's idiocy.

He can't go into any thread without mentioning Ronaldo.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Pathetic imbecile. The chief has not mentioned Kevin Davies any where in high regard. Thus says life.
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:lol:

For Messi to be considered better than Ronaldo he has to score more, according to you and Calamari. Seeing as Davies has scored more than those three, by your logic, he's better.

Pathetic imbecile indeed. I love your ludicrous high and mighty attitide, it's outrageosly humorous.

You're a pillock, thus says life.

:lol:
 
Gio said:
:lol: If you were to judge Zidane by the same criteria, he'd only be a quarter of the player Ronaldo is (given that he never scored more than ten goals a season).
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Bullshit. Zidane used to have a masive influence on things even when he was off form. Not to mention the fact he used to create alot, and also run his team's play. He passes that test with flying colors easily.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
:lol:

For Messi to be considered better than Ronaldo he has to score more, according to you and Calamari. Seeing as Davies has scored more than those three, by your logic, he's better.

Pathetic imbecile indeed. I love your ludicrous high and mighty atitiude, it's outrageosly humorous.

You're a pillock, thus says life.

:lol:
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You really are a a gone case. You the pillock on here with a high and mighty attitude when you can't even accurately reproduce what I said. I've not said any where Messi needs to score more than Ronaldo to be better. Only a fool like you could come up with such weak nonsense as a backing argument. I instead said he has to do as much as Ronaldo has, with his own style of play, to be better. If you had a brain it would be obvious.


Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber
To put it plainly Frankly Vulgar, until Messi passes through a season with a truly bad patch of form and reproduces the stats Ronaldo has this season, or better yet, plays half a season through the pain barrier and wins world, European and domestic player of the year on top of the European golden boot ( or in a Messi's case make a record number of assists as awesome as a 42 goal season), then and only then would he have earned the right to be considered better than Ronaldo.

So much for the bolded parts of my previous posts says Messi must score more than Ronaldo.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Anyway it's the same argument as Cal, chief and co keep banging on about. The all encompassing importance of stats when talking about players, they can't just watch someone and form an opinion, they need to get all anally statistical which makes no sense to anyone with any sense.
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Bullshit Frankly Vulgar. Bullshit. Since when did influence on a team, its success and being able to deliver through bad form become an example of placing importance on stats.?

Below is what I said:

"The measure of a player includes goals, assists, influence on his team, importance to his team's success and to be the best, surpassing what others are doing to such an extent there can be no room for debate.

I have never nor will I ever be someone who places importance of stats over a player perfromance.

Stop being a fecking retard and use your brain for once.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Bullshit Frankly Vulgar. Bullshit. Since when did influence on a team, its success and being able to deliver through bad form become an example of placing importance on stats.?

Below is what I said:

"The measure of a player includes goals, assists, influence on his team, importance to his team's success and to be the best, surpassing what others are doing to such an extent there can be no room for debate.

I have never nor will I ever be someone who places importance of stats over a player perfromance.

Stop being a fecking retard and use your brain for once.
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You just said Messi had to break a statistical record or did i miss that, you said he had to match Ronaldo for productivity to be considered as good. Messi has a bigger influence on his team than Ronaldo.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
He wont. He'd needs a record number of assists to do that. Or top scored in the champions league (To match Ronalo's incredible goal return for starters). On top of having to ensure Barca win a treble or at least a league and champions league double this year. With him heavily involved in the important moments in that run in like Ronaldo was last year.

Bullshit. Ronaldo both had the performances and the stats last season. & the season before when Kaka beat him to awards. If Messi can't match his stats with his natural game (creating goals and scoring a number) when on fire in a team on flame. Then he can't be better. It's that clear & simple. You can't have you cake and eat it too.
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Stats chief stats. :boring:
 
FranklyVulgar said:
SO on the one hand Messi has to reproduce the stats but Zidane had influence so stats didn't matter to him. You make sense chief you really do :lol:
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You're an idiot really. Zidane wasn't an all out attacker like Messi or Ronaldo. He was center midfield play maker. His job was to create play and create goals. Which he did with a plomb. Even when in bad form. Furthermore he used to rake up the most assists in the Serie A when he was at his peak. On top of having a knack of scoring the most crucial goals for his team's continued success repeatedly. At both club and international level. So you're beyond retarded if you think I'm only bigging him up for just his influence.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
You're an idiot really. Zidane wasn't an all out attacker like Messi or Ronaldo. He was center midfield play maker. His job was to create play and create goals. Which he did with a plomb. Even when in bad form. Furthermore he used to rake up the most assists in the Serie A when he was at his peak. On top of having a knack of scoring the most crucial goals for his team's continued success repeatedly. At both club and international level. So your beyond retarded if you think I'm only bigging him up for jsut his inluence.
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well you credit him with influence on a game yet ignore the fact that messi has and does dominate games and has a massive creative influence. Yet when comparing him to Ronaldo you can't see past a statistical analysis.

Despite them being very different players you put Messi, who is an offensive playmaker and all round team player statistically against Ronaldo who is now primarily a goal scorer because if he doesn't score he offers nothing but defensive liabilities.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Stats chief stats. :boring:
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fecking hell. It still hasn't dawned on you what Ronaldo had to do to replace a Kaka as the best player in the world? & that Messi will have to do something similar to replace Ronaldo in simalr fashion, especialy since Ronaldo has still delivered this season even in terrible form ? It's "all about stats" to you?
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
fecking hell. It still hasn't dawned on you what Ronaldo had to do to replace a Kaka as the best player in the world? & that Messi will have to do something similar to replace Ronaldo in simalr fashion, especialy since Ronaldo has still delivered this season even in terrible form ? It's "all about stats" to you?
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What Ronaldo had to do was score a record number of goals and win everything because his natural game isn't as good as Kakas or Messis. Ronaldo makes the difference based on his team mates hard work, Kaka and Messi can do it on their own.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
fecking hell. It still hasn't dawned on you what Ronaldo had to do to replace a Kaka as the best player in the world? & that Messi will have to do something similar to replace Ronaldo in simalr fashion, especialy since Ronaldo has still delivered this season even in terrible form ? It's "all about stats" to you?
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Irony?

He's delivered stats wise throughout his poor spell. Which is what you're using to base your 'delivered' argument on. Yet you say Frankly's all about stats.

What did you say before? You can't have your cake and eat it.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Irony?

He's delivered stats wise throughout his poor spell. Which is what you're using to base your 'delivered' argument on. Yet you say Frankly's all about stats.

What did you say before? You can't have your cake and eat it.
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I have never even said it's all about stats so i don't even know what he's on about there... :wenger:
 
FranklyVulgar said:
well you credit him with influence on a game yet ignore the fact that messi has and does dominate games and has a massive creative influence. Yet when comparing him to Ronaldo you can't see past a statistical analysis.
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That's just stupid. Messi has to be judged by stats because he plays the exact same position and role as Ronaldo. The player whom you claim he is already miles better than. The playe he is trying to rpecle a sthe ebst in the world. And frankly Messi doens't not have a Zidane like influence on Barca in the creative stakes. Both Xavi and Iniesta hold far greater sway than him. And that was poven when Iniesta got injured and Xavi's form dipped a bit not so long ago.


FranklyVulgar said:
Despite them being very different players you put Messi, who is an offensive playmaker and all round team player statistically against Ronaldo who is now primarily a goal scorer because if he doesn't score he offers nothing but defensive liabilities.
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Bullshit. Messi and Ronaldo play the exact same role. Their styles are different but their role is the same. They are both wingers. Ronaldo is not strictly a goal score neither is Messi strictly an offensive play maker. After all Messi plays with far superior finsishers to what Ronaldo plasys with. So his assists rate will always be higher.

Messi also does not have better all round stats than Ronaldo. That's a lie invented in your head.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Irony?

He's delivered stats wise throughout his poor spell. Which is what you're using to base your 'delivered' argument on. Yet you say Frankly's all about stats.

What did you say before? You can't have your cake and eat it.
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Where you just born stupid or do you do it for fun? It never occurred to you when read my post that I was actually asking Vulgar whether he thought me pointing out what Ronaldo had to do to replace a Kaka as the best player in the world & the fact that Messi will have to do something similar to replace Ronaldo as the best was just an argument based purely on the importance of stats?
 
FranklyVulgar said:
What Ronaldo had to do was score a record number of goals and win everything because his natural game isn't as good as Kakas or Messis. Ronaldo makes the difference based on his team mates hard work, Kaka and Messi can do it on their own.
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Throughout 2006/07, I would've strongly disagreed with this statement. He was miles better than Kaka that year, for me, and it was genuinely unbelievable that he didn't collect all the awards at the end of the year. However, I'm now inclined to agree, and it's bizarre how much he's transformed as a footballer.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
That's just stupid. Messi has to be judged by stats because he plays the exact same position and role as Ronaldo. The player whom you claim he is already miles better than. The playe he is trying to rpecle a sthe ebst in the world. And frankly Messi doens't not have a Zidane like influence on Barca in the creative stakes. Both Xavi and Iniesta hold far greater sway than him. And that was poven when Iniesta got injured and Xavi's form dipped a bit not so long ago.
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INiesta got injured mainly between November and december when Messi was on fire and scored goals and won games against all the best teams in spain. Messi had a little dip in form, the whole team did. To say it was proven is plain lies because Iniesta has been in and out with injury all season and it hasnt stopped Barca.

You are now just being daft and claiming Iniesta and Xavi are more important to Barca than Messi. I think they are both world class and important to the team but Messi is the difference maker in that team, when Messi plays they play.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Bullshit. Messi and Ronaldo play the exact same role. Their styles are different but their role is the same. They are both wingers. Ronaldo is not strictly a goal score neither is Messi strictly an offensive play maker. After all Messi plays with far superior finsishers to what Ronaldo plasys with. So his assists rate will always be higher.

Messi also does not have better all round stats than Ronaldo. That's a lie invented in your head.
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Messi is a part of a forward three. Ronaldo is either played off a striker or on the left with freedom and no resposibility to the team. And as for the finishers comment, strange one. If you put it on a plate like Messi often does then people will score. Ronaldo doesn't have the creativity of Messi that is why Messi has more assists, that and the fact Ronaldo has lost all ability to beat a man and be in any way effective as a wide man.

Messi doesn't? 30 goals and 13 assists in 40 games... 43 goals scored or created in 40 games is pretty conclusive. And that isn't even the whole story, his hold up play, his link up play and his team work ethic all put ROnaldos to shame.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
INiesta got injured mainly between November and december when Messi was on fire and scored goals and won games against all the best teams in spain. Messi had a little dip in form, the whole team did. To say it was proven is plain lies because Iniesta has been in and out with injury all season and it hasnt stopped Barca.

You are now just being daft and claiming Iniesta and Xavi are more important to Barca than Messi. I think they are both world class and important to the team but Messi is the difference maker in that team, when Messi plays they play.



Messi is a part of a forward three. Ronaldo is either played off a striker or on the left with freedom and no resposibility to the team. And as for the finishers comment, strange one. If you put it on a plate like Messi often does then people will score. Ronaldo doesn't have the creativity of Messi that is why Messi has more assists, that and the fact Ronaldo has lost all ability to beat a man and be in any way effective as a wide man.

Messi doesn't? 30 goals and 13 assists in 40 games... 43 goals scored of created in 40 games is pretty conclusive. And that isn't even the whole story, his hold up play, his link up play and his team work ethic all put ROnaldos to shame.
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No responsibility :lol:. If United falter, its Ronaldo that cops the shit. Wayne Rooney can get red carded and its considered "in his nature" but in reality is a liability for the team, but Ronaldo can have a poor game and get the shit blasted out of him, aka the United forum at the moment.
 
marchi-91 said:
No responsibility :lol:. If United falter, its Ronaldo that cops the shit. Wayne Rooney can get red carded and its considered "in his nature" but in reality is a liability for the team, but Ronaldo can have a poor game and get the shit blasted out of him, aka the United forum at the moment.
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Yes and?

Ronaldo for all the want of you fanboys is not immune to criticism. He's been gash, utter gash, he was wank last night yet you look on the ratings forum and people are giving him 7s. If it wasn't so rediculous i might find it funny, a guy who offered his team next to nothing, couldn't beat a man (even O'Shea managed that!) and gave the ball away more than anyone else in his team whilst being at fault for at least one of the goals is still immune to the truth.

This isn't a witch hunt, this isn't bias, this is plain as day. SOmething isn't right with Ronaldo at the moment, he isn't the player he was and how people like Chief and Cal can still believe he is the best baffles me. How they believe he will still scoop all the awards is so dumbfounding i can't even begin to fathom it.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Yes and?

Ronaldo for all the want of you fanboys is not immune to criticism. He's been gash, utter gash, he was wank last night yet you look on the ratings forum and people are giving him 7s. If it wasn't so rediculous i might find it funny, a guy who offered his team next to nothing, couldn't beat a man (even O'Shea managed that!) and gave the ball away more than anyone else in his team whilst being at fault for at least one of the goals is still immune to the truth.

This isn't a witch hunt, this isn't bias, this is plain as day. SOmething isn't right with Ronaldo at the moment, he isn't the player he was and how people like Chief and Cal can still believe he is the best baffles me. How they believe he will still scoop all the awards is so dumbfounding i can't even begin to fathom it.
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Clearly our topscorer is utter gash, hence we're top of the league, makes perfect sense...
 
Cal? said:
Clearly our topscorer is utter gash, hence we're top of the league, makes perfect sense...
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i didn't say he was gash, i said he's been gash.

but yeah because you are top of the league and Ronaldo is the top scorer in your team that makes him the best player around, the best player in uniteds team this season and the best in the world.... that makes perfect sense.... if you don't watch football.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
i didn't say he was gash, i said he's been gash.

but yeah because you are top of the league and Ronaldo is the top scorer in your team that makes him the best player around, the best player in uniteds team this season and the best in the world.... that makes perfect sense.... if you don't watch football.
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So he wasn't gash, but he's been gash? For how long? Long enough to score more goals from the wing than any other player for the top team in the best league in the World?

You and your sidekick will try to claim Ronaldo has been gash in every game unless he scores a hat-trick or something. On the other hand Messi will have dominated whoever Barca played against never mind Etoo was the one who won the game for them, it's always Messi this Messi that... :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Did I say Ronaldo is having the best season? I've said many times Messi is having a better season, but does that make him a better player?

Plenty of players are having better seasons than Torres, are they all better players?
 
Goals, goals, goals, statistics, CR7, BPITW, blah, blah.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Where you just born stupid or do you do it for fun? It never occurred to you when read my post that I was actually asking Vulgar whether he thought me pointing out what Ronaldo had to do to replace a Kaka as the best player in the world & the fact that Messi will have to do something similar to replace Ronaldo as the best was just an argument based purely on the importance of stats?
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:lol:

Again, you're so childish kemo. And clearly a bit deranged.

Boy my cake tastes nice though.
 
we're nearly there.

and we'll destroy it well and good so long as idiots like Indian and Cal are still around. keep fighting boys.
 
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