Comparing the technique of Messi and Rooney is like comparing Giggs and Kewell....the difference in class is blatantly obvious for anyone who isn't a Rooney fanboi. On form, one is the best in the world and other is good in the Premiership.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
- Start date
- Status
Comparing the technique of Messi and Rooney is like comparing Giggs and Kewell....the difference in class is blatantly obvious for anyone who isn't a Rooney fanboi. On form, one is the best in the world and other is good in the Premiership.
Comparing the technique of Messi and Rooney is like comparing Giggs and Kewell....the difference in class is blatantly obvious for anyone who isn't a Rooney fanboi. On form, one is the best in the world and other is good in the Premiership.
Good in the premiership???
You should stop talking if you say things like that. Rooneys world class, yet inconsistent. His form fluctuating doesn't mean he's just "good in the Premiership". His distribution is that of a playmaker, his tackling is like a defensive midfielder and he has an amazing shot. Besides that he runs all day and bosses games
You're severely biased against him.
Another of the hilarious Rooney myths that English fans have dreamed up.
Rooney has won the same number of tackles as Ronaldo this season and 1 more than Ronaldo last season.
Rooney:
2008-09 Tackles won: 8, Tackles Lost: 2
2007-08 Tackles won: 24, Tackles Lost: 7
Ronaldo:
2008-09 Tackles won: 8, Tackles Lost: 3
2007-08 Tackles won: 23, Tackles Lost: 6
Care to explain this ?
Tevez has won just 9 tackles in all matches this season whereas Berba has won 21.
Yeah right. You lacked what to say....
No way . If he doesn't win the champions league and a player like Ronaldo wins both that and the league Messi wont be getting any individual awards. That has happened so many times in the past for you to dismiss it. 2002 was a prime example. Ballack was the best player on the planet by far performance wise. But since he, Leverkusen and Germany won nothing that year. He never won a single individual award. It went to people with nothing form in comparison like Zizou and Fat Ronaldo. Heck even in 2007 Ronaldo had a better individual season than Kaka but still didn't beat him to the awards.
Rather what is idiotic is thinking mere performances, no matter how good they are, will "hands down" get Messi awards. When the incumbent is still scoring and setting up goals at a rate which will probably make him his domestic league's top scorer. On top of being the type of player capable of going on a scoring run that could help his team be the first in the modern era to retain the Champions league trophy. Only a blinkered fool would think you can simply write off such a player because of Messi's mesmeric ball skills and eye catching performances. Especially when Messi is supposedly on fire and Ronaldo certainly isn't.
What do defenders or center midfielders have to do with this? You are the one making big claims that Messi, a fellow attacking player to Ronaldo, will easily surpass Ronaldo, the current holder of individual awards without doing any thing out of the ordinary things he normally does when fit and in top form. Whilst Ronaldo is still raking up impressive stats even without top form. While having had a record breaking year like the last one. It's like you didn't see what Ronaldo had to do last season to overwhelmingly overhaul Kaka as player of the year. Messi hasn't even come close to that except in your eyes. Ronaldo even hasn't stood still even without form. But in your delusion he has. That's why you think him being seconds top scorer in the strongest league on the planet, amongst other things, is of no consequence. Even when he is far from top gear. & could yet get there.
You really are silly beyond belief! You talk of blind bias and you post that bolded statement? What is a more clear example of bind bias than claiming Messi this season has surpassed anything Ronaldo did last year? That statement smacks of clear and utter stupidity. No question.
Furthermore. No one but you keeps claiming Ronaldo's performances have been of the highest standard this year. Moreover you are so blinded by your Messi love you can't see Ronaldo has been highly effective this season. & will continue to be as crunch time pulls around. and is more than capable of single handedly securing United all the remaining trophies they are trying to get with his knack of rising to the occasion when he is needed. United's last game was a pure example. Meaning he is more than capable of ensuring Messi wins no individual awards this year. No matter how mesmeric he has seemed all year. But for you it's all a foregone conclusion. Messi will win everything regardless of what Barca achieves this year in the end and regardless of what others do. You need to stop being that childish.
As usual In your opinion! Currently Messi is only easier on the eye. He is not doing so much more than Ronaldo as you would love everyone to believe. Ronaldo is a joint top scorer in his league. Despite being in inferior form, in a side not in the type of form Barca is in, in a much tougher league than Messi is in.
That's the type of weak argument you would make. Not me. The measure of a player includes goals, assists, influence on his team, importance to his team's success and to be the best, surpassing what others are doing to such an extent there can be no room for debate. The sum total of these things almost always makes the true best player in the world in a year. Or an era. That is how defenders like Cannavaro have won awards. They may have not had the goals but they had the influence and impact on the teams success.
Now back to Messi and Ronaldo:
Last season Ronaldo had all that. Messi this year hasn't. Pure and simple. No matter how much you'd like to deceive everyone into believing he has.
Last year United couldn't live witout Roanldo. This year even with Messi on fire, when the lost Iniseta they nearly threw away their league title. That should put into perspective your claim Messi is doign more this year than Ronaldo did last year.
Futhermore, Messi, is still more than capable of ending up with out a single individual award this year. Even with the season he has had. & all for strictly footballing reasons. Unlike the silly reasons people where using to try to get Ronaldo denied his just rewards. But you are so biased you wont even entertain the thought. In your mind it will never happen. Messi is "guaranteed everything" and that's the end of it.
First off lets break down their stats a bit . To show how you really are blinkered in your Messi views.
League:
Ronaldo has played 27, scored 15 and created 5., Messi has started 26, scored 19 and created 10. Given Messi is on fire and Ronaldo isn't. These type of stats should put into perspective your claim Messi has been "so much better".
Over all and on fire Messi in club football has played 30 times, scored 30 goals and created 13. While an off form Ronaldo has played 36 times, scored 19 times and created 6 goals.
If Messi was so far ahead of Ronaldo as you claim in the race for individual awards, Ronaldo wouldn't have more than half the amount of goals Messi has, and wouldn't be a domestic top scorer while in considerably inferior form. Bottom line you are too biased towards Messi to accept the truth. Messi being crowned as the best player on Earth is not going to be a fore gone conclusion. At all. He has job on his hands to beat Ronaldo to them and it's going to prove much harder than you will dare to admit. For Ronaldo is not dead and buried yet.
Comparing the technique of Messi and Rooney is like comparing Giggs and Kewell....the difference in class is blatantly obvious for anyone who isn't a Rooney fanboi. On form, one is the best in the world and other is good in the Premiership.
He's just good?
That's it?
Then the awards tend to favour the more talented individual and a few eye catching performances can make the difference, Messi has that.
Messi was runner up last season in the awards and his team won nothing, he was in no way deserving of the awards yet this season he's already a stick on to win them because Ronaldo has been a shadow of himself last season. If Messi on performance and little success can come 2nd then Messi on performance and little success will come first, wait and see i genuinely think it'll happen.
Without form Ronaldo will still score goals, Uniteds lack of goal scorers is made apparent by this, last season it was even more apparent. Ronaldo scored two goals at the weekend and as he has often done this season gave a performance no befitting the best player in the world, he doesnt dazzle, he doesn't tear teams apart, he scores goals. But he shows no creativity and isn't able to beat a man but he is deadly as a goal scorer. And please don't talk about him being 2nd top scorer in the premiership, that's no great feat no matter how big and strong the prem is. Look at this for a top 5 goal scorers.
Anelka Chelsea 15
Ronaldo Man Utd 15
Gerrard Liverpool 13
Agbonlahor Aston Villa 12
Davies Bolton 12
i'd be embarassed.
What is a more clear example of bind bias than claiming Messi this season has surpassed anything Ronaldo did last year? That statement smacks of clear and utter stupidity. No question.
So far he has, at the same stage last year Messi has done more be it in goals or assists or a combination of both and since you are incapable of rating a player based on any other factors you must admit that that is indeed more.
I can only assume you meant "haven't been of the highest standard". I've never once said Ronaldos performances have been of the highest standard, they've not been a patch on seasons past and anyone can see that.
Sure Ronaldo could win it again, i just don't think he will and i think if Messi keeps up his performance level regardless of Barca's actual success he'll still win it, he was runner up last season without winning anything and he's been better and fitter this season whilst Ronaldo hasn't been a patch on his level last season. It makes sense to me but then i'm just being childish...
Again, the league scorers table is embarassing in england so that doesn't impress me, Anelka is still top and i cant remember him scoring a goal this year!
Messi is only easier on the eye, playing better football, scoring better goals, scoring more goals, creating more chances, getting more assists and being named MOTM an awful lot. Has Ronaldo been MOTM this season?
When Messi is on the park Barca score on average 3 goals every 70 mins, when he isn't it's 1 a game. That's a fair influence is it not.
Iniesta? this is Iniesta who has on and off injured this season? He missed the most crucial november/december period when Barca had to play all the top teams in the league in succession. Barca went through a dip in form and sure you can put that down to iniesta but he is a player that has been very hampered with injury this season so your comments truely hold no water here.
Messi this year hasnt? have you any idea how many matches he's won for Barca this season. Messi has been at the forefront of Barca blowing away the opposition, Ronaldo will still get winners but he isn't influencing the team with vrituoso performances which is what we've been lucky enough to witness from Messi so many times this season.
Futhermore, Messi, is still more than capable of ending up with out a single individual award this year. Even with the season he has had. & all for strictly footballing reasons. Unlike the silly reasons people where using to try to get Ronaldo denied his just rewards. But you are so biased you wont even entertain the thought. In your mind it will never happen. Messi is "guaranteed everything" and that's the end of it.
Only a complete collapse of Barca and Messi would result in him going away with nothing. They will win the league and he'll be awarded the award for being the best player in La Liga, he's still in pole for all the big awards but i guess until he actually gets them you'll continue to ignore this. Did i actually guarantee that he'd win everything? i'd put money on him winning the individual honours and genuinely believe he will. You think Ronaldo will, good luck to you.
Messi has been the best player this season, he's been better than Ronaldo, actually he's been by far the best and MUCH better than Ronaldo. Only you and a handful of the ultimate Ronaldo diehard fanboys can't or wont accept that. It's pathetic as it is plain as day to see that this is the truth. Anyone who wont at least admit that is biased beyond belief or just plain clueless.
Maybe Ronaldo WILL go on and blow everyone away for the last couple of months, maybe Messi WILL fold, get injured, play rubbish and bottle it at the final hurdles but right NOW it is undisputable that Messi has been far superior and whilst you might bet against him and imagine Ronaldo to scoop the awards again i think Messi is in a better position with a lot more possibility of gaining the success. If this makes me childish, clueless, a spastic, a retard, laughable or whatever else then so be it, i just wonder what on earth it makes you and the rest who wont accept what is plain to see.
Just 11 more pages to go
my last post was actually over the character limit, that's never happend to me before so you can't blame me for spamming despite my rediculous amount of posts in this thread. I should really get out of it
There is no doubting that Messi has been far more dominant in a league which is defensively worse.
Whether Messi's performances are actually 'far better' or whether he was just a flat track bully against 'far worse' defenses will be revealed in the next few weeks when Barca actually play against some decent defenders.
Irureta gave an interview saying that there are no more decent defenses left in Spain these days. (He has played in the Laliga for over a decade as a forward and has been managing Spanish teams for more than 2 decades and is qualified to comment on it)
Whether Messi's performances are actually 'far better' or whether he was just a flat track bully against 'far worse' defenses will be revealed in the next few weeks when Barca actually play against some decent defenders.
Irureta gave an interview saying that there are no more decent defenses left in Spain these days. (He has played in the Laliga for over a decade as a forward and has been managing Spanish teams for more than 2 decades and is qualified to comment on it)
Maybe there is a lack of genuinely class forwards in england though, look at the goal scoring chart in comparison to spain.
England top scorers.
Anelka Chelsea 15
Ronaldo Man Utd 15
Gerrard Liverpool 13
Agbonlahor Aston Villa 12
Davies Bolton 12
Crouch Portsmouth 11
Lampard Chelsea 11
Robinho Man City 11
Adebayor Arsenal 10
Bent Tottenham 10
Zaki Wigan 10
Cisse Sunderland 9
Cole West Ham 9
Defoe Tottenham 9
Rooney Man Utd 9
Spain
1 Samuel Eto'o 26 Barcelona
2 David Villa 21 Valencia
3 Diego Forlán 20 Atletico Madrid
4 Lionel Messi 19 Barcelona
5 Álvaro Negredo 17 Almeria
6 Gonzalo Higuaín 16 Real Madrid
6 Frederic Kanouté 16 Sevilla
8 Thierry Henry 15 Barcelona
9 González Raúl 14 Real Madrid
10 Sergio Aguero 13 Atletico Madrid
More goals but also i think better attacking players. Worse defenses i'd agree with but the attacking is still better.
I agree but at the same time you have the feeling that no matter the opposition at times he can't be stopped.He was the one I was by worried about last year
Before his injuries kewell was phenomenal and one of the best wingers in the world.
If he hadn't been injured so much, I reckon he could well have gone on to become just as good, if not better (albeit not as longlived a career).
If Messi with 19 goals is far better than Ronaldo with 15, are Negredo or Forlan far better than Rooney too ?
Ronaldo's 42 goals is what started the whole 'ye shall be judged by your stats' fallacy.
Giggs was the best around while Kewell was quality in the Premiership with a potential to be one of the best in the world....much like Messi and Rooney.
Jesus Christ...there are some spastics on this website.
Its quite an irony that the biggest spastic on this website posts about it.
It's.
Yes. Mancs have idealised Giggs into some kind of uber-player. The reality is that while he was a world class player for for many seasons, he was never among the exclusive elite of the best players in the world. He was consistently in the tier just below along with a fair share of other players.
Kewell could have reached a similar level had he stayed fit.
Not too bad a comparison (although obviously not in the messi category). But still a top player and one of the best in his position for a brief time.
What next? Gerrard a better player than Giggs?
'christ... kewell could never have grown into the tier below the best in the world'
or
'christ... giggs was obviously the best in the world.'
as for the latter, only mancs will assent to that.
What next? Gerrard a better player than Giggs?
Unlike giggs, Gerrard has actually been talked about as a top 3 player in the world beyond the club's own fanbase.
I was thinking more "Christ...you're talking out of your arse."
meh. He's one of your sacred cows along with scholes and keane.
Kewell as good as Messi and Ronaldo? Wtf?
i did not say that at all. Those players belong in the 'best in the world' category.
It's got nothing to do with United fans overrating our own players, Kewell simply wasn't as good as Giggs nor did he have the potential to be. To even suggest that shows some sort of mental deficiency on your part.
I think you're forgetting how good he was in his Leeds heyday.
Okay, I re-read what you posted, buts its still ridiculous.
I agree that Giggs was never really amongst the top 3-5 players in the world at any one point in his career, but he has consistently been in the top 5-20 for a staggering number of years. Kewell has never been. You can guess how good he could have gone on to be all you want, but frankly I think its just wishful thinking. I dont think he was that special aside from a great left foot.
that's the main point. I am not saying he would be in there for any length of time comparable to giggs' career. But he could have been in there for a while if not for injuries.
Strong, fast, skilful, goalscorer, creative, good crosser. Very complete attacking player.
Not really wishful thinking since that boat had sailed when he signed for us.
Kewell was a very good young player at one point, definately. He had serious potential. He stagnated a bit in his final season at Leeds and got fat and injured a lot at Liverpool. I think had he moved a season before he did or if he'd come to us instead, the story would have been very different.
the reality vortex strikes again.
Harry Kewell never had the temperament to get anywhere close to Giggs' level of performance and effectiveness. Giggs is an amazing player anyway, but his attitude and mentality have allowed him to become one of the greats.
If you haven't got the temperament you've got to have huge levels of natural ability (ie. a Best or Maradona) to overcome it and reach that kind of level.
Kewell.
If you haven't got the temperament you've got to have huge levels of natural ability (ie. a Best or Maradona) to overcome it and reach that kind of level.
Kewell.
Comparing the technique of Messi and Rooney is like comparing Giggs and Kewell....the difference in class is blatantly obvious for anyone who isn't a Rooney fanboi. On form, one is the best in the world and other is good in the Premiership.
So at his best, Rooney is just a good player in the premiership? I think your bias against him is a tad too obvious for your posts to be taken seriously when talking about Rooney. I didn't say he has been as good as messi, but in terms of talent and potential, there's not much between him, messi and Ronaldo.
it's got more to do with the fact that Spain is a relatively poor league. The Premier League is the strongest in the world and the level of defending in the two aren't comparable. Generally speaking, English sides would spank their Spanish counterparts if they played in the same league.
- Status