I can't believe how ridiculously childish this thread is. I think all of us (including me) need to give this debate a rest and just enjoy watching these two great players. It was interesting initially but 70 pages, ffs.
Lionel Messi
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70 pages of pure, Argentinian, unadulterated filthmongering.
Quality.
Quality.
your more full of shit then I gave you credit for.
Statistics thread says 9.
So you were 3 off, and he was 4 off. And he's so full of shit?
Christ mate, I think I'm going to have to re-assess you as a poster.
What the hell is performance? Ronaldo had a better season because he produced more on the pitch. His 42 goals were performance, his scoring in the final was performance, two goals each in three games in a row is performance, scoring ALL kinds of goals is performance, winning 2 premier league titles and a CL is performance. No bloody gobsmacking brilliance makes anyone better than anyone else. Its what you achieve on the pitch, its what you do for your team that matters. Ronaldo did more for his team the last two years than Messi did, hence.... wait for it..Performance wise Messi at his best was better always. FOr standout gobsmacking brilliance he's always better. ROnaldo had a more effective couple of seasons but that doesnt make him the better footballer. He deserves everything he's gotten but i'd always on any given day take Messi in a heartbeat over Ronaldo.
and people think i take things too far
1. He was the better footballer
2. He played better
3. He was the worlds best
4. His 'performance' was better
You can look at it in any which way you want it. Ronaldo WAS BETTER. I believe Messi has more ability and it doesnt matter to me who ends up the better player in the end. And personally i think it might just be Messi. But stop being so blatantly biased and recognise that for the past two seasons Ronaldo was better. Messi has been better this season no doubt.
I think you need to lose this uniquely bizzare concept you've created that because Messi has greater ability, no matter what he does on the pitch, feck it if he doesnt score or create, he will be a better player than Ronaldo. Its like saying Paul Scholes can play all year long like he did against Inter, but still due to his greater footballing intelligence will ALWAYS be better than Gerrard, which is again nonsense. Even Messi will concede Ronaldo was better, you wont though. Its like people arguing Ronaldo is better this season.
And i like how you say 'Ronaldo had a couple of more effective seasons' as if it means nothing. Especially when being effective is what matters, and Messi has had 'just about half a more effective season than Ronaldo' in response.
Mate, firstly FranklyVulgar's not a Gooner. And secondly I'm most certainly not bitter.
Trawl through the Ronaldo thread, the old ones where all you fickle fanboiis lambasted him and called him out, I was one of the few sticking up for the guy, and continued to claim he'd develop into the best player in the world oneday. And he did.
Yes, I think he's a cnut. But I also appreciate his awesome ability as a player. feck even check the threads from last year where I heaped praise on him. And I have just as much reason, if not more, to hate Barcelona than United - who I have nothing but respect for as a club and institution.
If you're going to try and argue with me (and others) at least have valid points and not make up bullshite like Cal. It's just fecking typical of this place, that you see an opposition supporter daring to offer up proper objectivity and you immediately get all uppity and defensive for no real reason. Propper e-fanz.
Lastly, and most convincingly, I'm saying Messi is the best player in the world AT THE MOMENT. It's as simple as that because he is. You even inadvertently say as much yourself in this very quote.
and people think i take things too far
Clearly he hasn't got a leg to stand on there.
What nonsense. If you can ignore Ronaldo's injury problems this season then ignore Messi's last season when comparing them.
Ronaldo was much better last two seasons. He scored more goals, was a threat from all directions, with the ball at feet, in the air, from free kicks, took our pens etc. Messi lacked a bit of end product at times and frankly i dont see how him being fit the whole time would have made a difference seeing as we beat them and messi played well but was just faced a defence that was too good on the two nights.
Its things like this that annoy people. Messi hasnt been better in the past, is now and no one knows whether he will be in the future. And even if you think he will be in the future dont twist the past around to suit your opinion. Ronaldo was better, everyone thought so and the success of the two clubs proves it as well.
Ronaldo>Messi - last two seasons
Messi>Ronaldo - this season
Well said.
What the hell is performance? Ronaldo had a better season because he produced more on the pitch. His 42 goals were performance, his scoring in the final was performance, two goals each in three games in a row is performance, scoring ALL kinds of goals is performance, winning 2 premier league titles and a CL is performance. No bloody gobsmacking brilliance makes anyone better than anyone else. Its what you achieve on the pitch, its what you do for your team that matters. Ronaldo did more for his team the last two years than Messi did, hence.... wait for it..
1. He was the better footballer
2. He played better
3. He was the worlds best
4. His 'performance' was better
You can look at it in any which way you want it. Ronaldo WAS BETTER. I believe Messi has more ability and it doesnt matter to me who ends up the better player in the end. And personally i think it might just be Messi. But stop being so blatantly biased and recognise that for the past two seasons Ronaldo was better. Messi has been better this season no doubt.
I think you need to lose this uniquely bizzare concept you've created that because Messi has greater ability, no matter what he does on the pitch, feck it if he doesnt score or create, he will be a better player than Ronaldo. Its like saying Paul Scholes can play all year long like he did against Inter, but still due to his greater footballing intelligence will ALWAYS be better than Gerrard, which is again nonsense. Even Messi will concede Ronaldo was better, you wont though. Its like people arguing Ronaldo is better this season.
And i like how you say 'Ronaldo had a couple of more effective seasons' as if it means nothing. Especially when being effective is what matters, and Messi has had 'just about half a more effective season than Ronaldo' in response.
Point is during the two years when Ronaldo had better seasons when Messi was at his best he was still the best, he still gave performances that Ronaldo or any other player could never give. That is the nature of Messi, he is something special, something different. Ronaldo can score 50 goals a season if 20 are free kicks, penalties, 10 are headers from set peices and a handful are brilliance. I said it last season that i thought his goal scoring was masking otherwise abject performances but legends grow fast in this day and age and already people are talking about Ronaldo 08 as being some sort of untouchable feat.
Messi does more for me, you want your players two footed, tall, strong in all areas. I want to watch the genius of a player that does remarkable things. A Messi, a Baggio, a Maradona...
You're completely ignoring the point. I do think Messi is capable of more brilliant things, and if i had to bet on who will be remembered as better i'd hate to do it but my hunch is it would be Messi.
But it doesnt matter when you're looking at past performance. Messi may have put in a few performances asthetically better than Ronaldo did the whole season, but over the course Ronaldo outperformed him both years. In the end style counts for very little on a football pitch unless were talking about likeability of a player. Its not how you do things its what you do. And what Ronaldo did was much more than Messi. Its irrelevant how his goals went it, they went in and they went in with unbelievable regularity and delivered us the biggest trophies the club could have dreamed off.
This has nothing to do with the kind of player i like. Personally i like watching Messi much more, and at United due to his complete game and magnificent footballing brain Rooneys my favorite player. So your wrong about that too. Thing is, you think this is about liking a player. You think Messi was better because you like him more. You're forgetting that it doesnt matter what kind of player you prefer, its about who actually did better, who did more for their team. Simple answer is Ronaldo.
Go wank yourself on his pictures then.You keep on embarassing yourself
I stopped giving a shit what you think about anything along time ago. I'll stick to my opinions which haven't changed really since the start of this thread.
If my opinions offend you then ignore them or better yet actually say something remotely constructive, or do what you always do and tag onto the opinions of whoevers cock you want in your mouth this week.
We've gotta be close to 71 yeah?
Can we get some new posters when we hit the big 7-1 ?
Can we get some new posters when we hit the big 7-1 ?
I do see the point, i'll just never think ROnaldo is a better player.
It's like Robbie Keane scoring 30 goals in a season and people saying he's better than Wayne Rooney. He isn't he wont be and he never will be. That's how i feel about Messi and Ronaldo.
Read my last post. I think you need make a distinction between ability and performance. Im sure you would start Messi over Ronaldo any day of the week because of how much you rate his talent (we all do) but that doesnt change the past and who was better.
Who do you think you are to offend me ? You amuse me.You're just a stupid retard.I certainly hope you keep up your work,it always cracks me up
Oh and FV I try to stick by my opinions as much as possible and am willing to admit my mistakes.For me Messi has been the better this season but Ronaldo has always been before that.
Truth hurts I know but it's how it is
Truth hurts I know but it's how it is
I've said he had the better seasons what more do you want? i've said he deserves the ballon d'or what more do you want?
YOu want me to catagorically say that Ronaldo was a better footballer than Messi? then you're asking the wrong man, he's never been a better player and he never will be.
If he scores 30 goals in a season and gets 10 assists three seasons in a row and Rooney gets 10 and 15 for the same seasons, he would be the better player. Ability has nothing to do with it. Just like Lampard has been better than Scholes, despite Scholes' best being miles ahead of Lampard.
You just have to understand that a player is judged in the end by what he produces, not little shimmies and swaggerish play and not reputation and not ability. You may not like it but he was the better player, Messi now is. I have no problem admitting the latter. You should come to terms with the former.
A retard who knows where the spacebar on a keyboard is located.
Oh and FV I try to stick by my opinions as much as possible and am willing to admit my mistakes.For me Messi has been the better this season but Ronaldo has always been before that.
Truth hurts I know but it's how it is
What mistake am i making here, the mistake of saying Messi is a better footballer and always has been?
The mistake of admiting that Ronaldo had better, more successful seasons whilst retaining my belief that Messi is the better footballer?
Messi is the better footballer always has been and always will be unless he is injured badly.
Well considering Messi is 3 years younger i think it's pretty harsh on him to hold the fact he was 18/19/20 and always suffering injuries and playing in a side in turmoil whilst ROnaldo was 21/22/23 having little injuries and playing for the most successful team in the world.
Circumstance means everything when you judge players purely on what they achieve or purely on statistics.
If a 16 year does better for a 16 year old than a 24 year old does for his age, it doesnt mean the former is better. He may have more ability but its possible the former was great for his age but the latter was superior on the pitch. Why take age into account when comparing? Did it matter to our season if Ronaldo was 30 or 23? Nope.
Also i think the Messi injury thing is overrated. He played a lot and i dont think it made any difference to them going out of the CL. He tried everything he had in the locker its just that we were too good defensively and always had an answer.
How does coming back from a serious injury not affect you when playing your first games back? that is pretty much rubbish.
So if a 16 year old is better than a 16 year old what does that mean? Messi being 3 years younger makes a difference to me. This is pretty much the season where nobody can ignore him because of what he is doing yet still people say La liga is shit so he's not that good. When you talk about him in the past people talk about the team and not him yet when people talk about Ronaldo it is only 42 goals, only his achievments, nothing of the fact United have been the best club team in the world for 3 years now and whilst he's intigral he isn't the only reason united are great. You can live without him, Barca can't live without Messi.
Umm i said a 16 year old better for his age than a 24 year old for his age. It doesnt change the fact that the 24 year old was the better player.
Why bring up things i dont believe in? I never said La Liga is shit. Say that to someone who actually thinks that way.
It doesnt matter who had what injuries. Its not as if he had proven himself to be the best and then got injured and the world never got to see his brilliance. THIS season is where hes proven himself to be the best. This argument isnt going anywhere, you refuse to look beyond his ability and focus on who actually did more.
Interesting... so Ronaldo was better than Messi in 06/07 and 07/08, they both play professional football, but Ronaldo has never been the better footballer.
Logic is not your strong suit, is it?
Btw, FV, I guess all these other people you've been arguing with don't actually exists, didn't you claim I was all alone in rating Ronaldo higher?
Messi is obviously the better footballer and can get even better with age, anyone who disagrees with is just retarded. Although, Ronaldo is still only 24 and obviously can still get a whole lot better. Both could be as good as each other in 2 or 3 years but with Messi being 2 and half years his junior has the edge potential wise. Only god knows how good these 2 can be in a few seasons time, these two will be head and shoulders above everyone else in world football for a long while yet unless another gem arises with in the next season.
Not sure I agree there, Xavi's arguably been better than Ronaldo this season and has every chance of finishing ahead of Ronaldo in the Ballon D'Or, so Ronaldo won't be head and shoulders above everyone.
Then there's Iniesta, who's been around for a while now and can't be called a gem, but he's been improving each year.
David Villa is likely to get a move this summer, so he might just have a great season next year and get ahead of Ronaldo then, who knows.
Or Eto'o, if he moves on, might take him up to the next level. Or Vidic might keep up that level of consistency and edge ahead of Ronaldo in the next two years.
You can't make the claim that they will be head and shoulders above everyone else in world football, because it contradicts exactly what you just said in the previous sentence.
Ahh the 08 arguement, he'll be living off his 42 goals BPITW CR7 season for the rest of his career.
If i was as statistically anal as Cal? or something i'd take a picture of the season at this stage for goals and assists from Messi this season and Ronaldo last season and you would see that Messi has been more productive
Of coarse he would and why shouldnt he , it was those goals that contributed to the double and please forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't it goals that win matches. And Ronaldo scored 42 of them credit were credit is due Ronaldo 08 > Messi 09 Fact. Not denying that Messi be it in a weaker league is having a better season then our CR7 THIS SEASON, but has anyone in world football had a more influencing season than CR7 than last year - answer NO ONE. Not even your beloved Messi.
Ahh the 08 arguement, he'll be living off his 42 goals BPITW CR7 season for the rest of his career.
If i was as statistically anal as Cal? or something I'd take a picture of the season at this stage for goals and assists from Messi this season and Ronaldo last season and you would see that Messi has been more productive
Also if we talk statistics well lets look at a few , firstly the Spanish league is well 2rd rate compared to the English league so our Messi comes across 2rd rate defenders when comparing them to the English league which you have to admit is the strongest league there is . Also teams are understanding how to play against Ronaldo better now and that comes with winning all those individual awards so it makes things just a little more complicated for our CR7 who statistically is still out number 1 goal scorer.
They arent as good defensively as premiership defenders but they're hardly second rate. The difference is bigger IMO in the big games. While Ronaldo has to deal with two defenders on him and the defences of Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, Messi gets to have a go at Real
and co.Ronaldo > Best.
They're arguing about the past. Right now everyone knows Messi is "currently" better.
They arent as good defensively as premiership defenders but they're hardly second rate. The difference is bigger IMO in the big games. While Ronaldo has to deal with two defenders on him and the defences of Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, Messi gets to have a go at Real
But they are 2rd rate when comparing them to the Premiership. And we know how good Real are just ask the scousers. Im sorry but anyone saying that this years version of Messi is greater than last years version of CR7 is well just WRONG.
They arent as good defensively as premiership defenders but they're hardly second rate. The difference is bigger IMO in the big games. While Ronaldo has to deal with two defenders on him and the defences of Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, Messi gets to have a go at Real
Yes thats the main factor imo, the games are much more open in La liga and this would obviously suit Ronnie if he ever decides to move there and he could excel as much as Messi has done this season. I would like to see Messi in the prem one day to prove himself in the hardest league and also the most physical, i don't think he will enjoy his experience here but Ronnie will thrive it in La liga. That's the difference imo, Ronnie can excel in any given league, but you can not say the same thing in Messi's case.
Obviosuly neither are proven to be true, but that's just my opinion.
I see the touch of well wit but ill take the tongue and the cheek
and the pitch of salt but Ill stick with my personal opinion no matter what. Messi is currently better and currently only. And to be honest, less than a season is too little to be better in. If Ronaldo had a terrific CL season from here on in and scores in the final again and Messi dissapoints, it could even things out and probably tip it in Ronaldo's balance. But yes, right now no doubt its Messi.
Nah i think hes too good not to succeed anywhere. Whether hes as good as Ronaldo is here, noone will know but he will succeed. He isnt genuinely strong physically but its tough to knock him off the ball. I think Ronaldo would absolutely love playing Real and company in the big games. Hes had to face some of the toughest defences in games which dont allow attacking players to excel, in England.
The punctuation I use comes from the French I speak.I'm sorry if it disappoints you but I must say that it has nothing to do with football.
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