Lionel Messi

[Fortitude]

he's certainly one of the best. being on of the best one touch passers at Barca puts you pretty high in a world wide scale.

That doesn't make him light years ahead of anybody, nor the best in the world in that department, though.

Vijay fancies hyperbolic statements he knows are contestable, for some reason.

Fair enough but you aren't the only one to hold the idea that Ronaldo will continue to improve and change and improve where as Messi cant. You make a point about him not changing since he was 16. Why not just say he hasn't changed since birth...

You need to re-read what I wrote, and stop taking everything you don't like to hear to heart, because what you've said is certainly not what was implied. I said putting definitions on what Ronaldo is is nigh on impossible beings as his game is constantly changing.

If you defined Ronaldo as the 06/07 now, you'd be wrong.

If you define Ronaldo as the 07/08 version, this season, you'd be wrong.

And so on. He is constantly in a state of flux if we take it by a seasonal basis over the last three. That is not the case for Messi.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

So Ronaldo has had to adapt to different demands, fair enough and he's done it well until this season where he's been largely poor.

Messi doesn't need to change and probably wont ever need to change because his current game is far ahead of everyone elses at the moment.

And anyway Messi's style wont change but then most players styles dont change, any great player has his style. But in terms of the job he's doing for the team that has changed. Messi has been instructed to play further forward, off the striker more or to take more central positions which has impacted his goal return in a simelar way to how Ronaldo did last season when given simelar instructions. Difference being Messi can still take the ball down the left and beat men, still pick it up in the middle and open the game up with skills or passing. I've seen none of either from Ronaldo this season so i struggle to see how he's adapted like the chameleon he is.

 

[Fortitude]

So Ronaldo has had to adapt to different demands, fair enough and he's done it well until this season where he's been largely poor.

Messi doesn't need to change and probably wont ever need to change because his current game is far ahead of everyone elses at the moment.

And anyway Messi's style wont change but then most players styles dont change, any great player has his style. But in terms of the job he's doing for the team that has changed. Messi has been instructed to play further forward, off the striker more or to take more central positions which has impacted his goal return in a simelar way to how Ronaldo did last season when given simelar instructions. Difference being Messi can still take the ball down the left and beat men, still pick it up in the middle and open the game up with skills or passing. I've seen none of either from Ronaldo this season so i struggle to see how he's adapted like the chameleon he is.

Come on, Frankly. You're going in round in circles now.

 

[Brwned]

So Ronaldo has had to adapt to different demands, fair enough and he's done it well until this season where he's been largely poor.

Messi doesn't need to change and probably wont ever need to change because his current game is far ahead of everyone elses at the moment.

And anyway Messi's style wont change but then most players styles dont change, any great player has his style. But in terms of the job he's doing for the team that has changed. Messi has been instructed to play further forward, off the striker more or to take more central positions which has impacted his goal return in a simelar way to how Ronaldo did last season when given simelar instructions. Difference being Messi can still take the ball down the left and beat men, still pick it up in the middle and open the game up with skills or passing. I've seen none of either from Ronaldo this season so i struggle to see how he's adapted like the chameleon he is.

Because you're looking at it the wrong way.

Fortitude's not saying he's adapted brilliantly to each different role, evidently he hasn't this season, but he's saying that he has adapted his role in the team each time which Messi has never really had to do.

He's not using that as a way of talking up Ronaldo, he's using it as a way of saying that it's a lot harder to predict how he will progress.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I said Ronaldo is the better player, Messi is having a better season.

How exactly do you define playing better currently? Is Anelka currently playing better than Drogba? Is Anelka a better player than Drogba?

I know many would say Ronaldo is only having a better season last year (for being more effective), but Messi and Kaka are clearly the better players. And your arguments are not any better than them.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

Because you're looking at it the wrong way.

Fortitude's not saying he's adapted brilliantly to each different role, evidently he hasn't this season, but he's saying that he has adapted his role in the team each time which Messi has never really had to do.

He's not using that as a way of talking up Ronaldo, he's using it as a way of saying that it's a lot harder to predict how he will progress.

And all i'm saying is it's not. and it's far less likely for ROnaldo to continue to improve than it is for Messi given a number of factors.

No player i can ever remember has been the best player in the world and awarded for it and then went on and blown his former self away, it just doesnt happen. they sustain, improve slightly or wilt.

 

[Brwned]

And all i'm saying is it's not. and it's far less likely for ROnaldo to continue to improve than it is for Messi given a number of factors.

No player i can ever remember has been the best player in the world and awarded for it and then went on and blown his former self away, it just doesnt happen. they sustain, improve slightly or wilt.

But that's just taking the argument a completely different way.

I think Messi will steadily imporve, I'd be quite sure of that. I think Ronaldo has as much chance of improving as he does of becoming worse.

Would you agree with that?

 

[FranklyVulgar]

But that's just taking the argument a completely different way.

I think Messi will steadily imporve, I'd be quite sure of that. I think Ronaldo has as much chance of improving as he does of becoming worse.

Would you agree with that?

I think Messi will steadily improve too, he'll become more and more in charge of matches and i think he could find a future in an attack mid position more like Kaka than the right side he is on now.

Ronaldo i have no idea i just don't buy into this theory of him improving leaps and bounds every season. If he can get back to the level of last year or the year before then you have a world class footballer, one of the best in the world. But that is the thing about great players, they have to sustain or it'll be quickly forgotten. To even reach these levels is hard enough but for people to assume at 24 he's going to get much better still is beyond me.

I'd never say never but for my money i don't see Ronaldo improving much as a player anymore, he made his biggest steps from ages 18-21, after that it's baby steps i feel.

 

[reddevilcanada]

I'd never say never but for my money i don't see Ronaldo improving much as a player anymore, he made his biggest steps from ages 18-21, after that it's baby steps i feel.

so he made his biggest steps in his first three seasons with us, while becoming the best player in the world in the last 2 seasons have been baby steps? Interesting.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

so he made his biggest steps in his first three seasons with us, while becoming the best player in the world in the last 2 seasons have been baby steps? Interesting.

at 21 he was brilliant, the season he was 21/22 was his best in my eyes yes.

 

[Tibs]

Is Messi a better player than Bramble.

Answer that.

 

[reddevilcanada]

at 21 he was brilliant, the season he was 21/22 was his best in my eyes yes.

so the season he was 22/23 where be banged in 42 goals in 47 games leading us to league and european glory and subsequently named the best player in the world, were baby steps?

 

[KingEric7]

so the season he was 22/23 where be banged in 42 goals in 47 games leading us to league and european glory and subsequently named the best player in the world, were baby steps?

It depends on whether you believe that Ronaldo last year was an improvement on Ronaldo the year before.

 

[reddevilcanada]

It depends on whether you believe that Ronaldo last year was an improvement on Ronaldo the year before.

in terms of effectiveness and his role in what we achieved (i.e. league and CL glory as opposed to just the league in 06/07) yes.

However, FV was saying that Ronaldo made his biggest steps from 18-21 which is a period when he was hardly the best player in the world, inconsistent, frustrating and still maturing. It's from 21-23 (i.e. the last 2 seasons) that he's really made the biggest steps and reached the top of the footballing world, both individually and with United. That should be quite clear to most people who have a clue and watch United.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

in terms of effectiveness and his role in what we achieved (i.e. league and CL glory as opposed to just the league in 06/07) yes.

However, FV was saying that Ronaldo made his biggest steps from 18-21 which is a period when he was hardly the best player in the world, inconsistent, frustrating and still maturing. It's from 21-23 (i.e. the last 2 seasons) that he's really made the biggest steps and reached the top of the footballing world, both individually and with United. That should be quite clear to most people who have a clue and watch United.

You dont get it.

He developed the most during these years 18-21. At 21 he had a great season, his standard of football was the best i've ever seen from him because he was doing everything, scoring, creating, ripping defences and entertaining.

Did he make a drastic improvement into the next season? I don't think so, he tweaked his game and was given a different role. He scored more goals but was his general level of play better? for my money i'd say no way. His play wasn't better but his goal scoring contribution was.

So as far as his development went most of it was done by the time he was 21, after that it's been minor alterations to his game, baby steps if you will.

But sure mate i don't watch united or have a clue, i made this all up and it makes no sense...

 

[reddevilcanada]

You dont get it.

He developed the most during these years 18-21. At 21 he had a great season, his standard of football was the best i've ever seen from him because he was doing everything, scoring, creating, ripping defences and entertaining.

Did he make a drastic improvement into the next season? I don't think so, he tweaked his game and was given a different role. He scored more goals but was his general level of play better? for my money i'd say no way. His play wasn't better but his goal scoring contribution was.

So as far as his development went most of it was done by the time he was 21, after that it's been minor alterations to his game, baby steps if you will.

But sure mate i don't watch united or have a clue, i made this all up and it makes no sense...

Ronaldo at the beginning of the 06/07 season was 21 years and 8 months old. At this point he was hardly the best player in the world, in fact as I said before from 18-21 he was more frustrating and inconsistent rather than the best player in the world. He was also not making big steps during this period compared to the steps he took from the start of the 06/07 period until the end of the 07/08 period where he went from being an inconsistent and frustrating player at times to the best player in the world. Now this transition to becoming the best player in the world is called a big step, not slow and gradual steps towards that in his first three seasons with us, i.e. from 18-21. A look at his goals per season should tell you this:

Ronaldo during 18-21:

03/04 ----- 6
04/05 ----- 9
05/06 ----- 12

Ronaldo during last 2 seasons: (almost 22 [if you want to be a pedant, 21 and 8 months old] to 23 and a half)

06/07 ----- 23
07/08 ----- 42

Now, I can see gradual improvements, or 'baby steps' if you will from 18-21 by looking at his goal tally, and during this period he was nowhere near being the best player in the world. However during the last two seasons you can see a massive chasm in the goals from the 18-21 period. Whereas he was steadily scoring 3 goals more per season, he'd scored 9 more than the last season in 06/07 and 19 more in the next (now I know he wasn't that much better than in 06/07 but he was 'much better' than the 18-21 age period).

More importantly he was not recognized or considered as the best player in the world until at least when he ripped Roma apart in March of 07 and even then mostly by United fans, when he was 22! Now, to me going from an inconsistent player (from 18-21) to becoming and being recognized as being the best in the world on a consistent basis (from 22 onward ) constitutes a 'BIG STEP', not a 'baby step', while slowly but steadily improving during his first three seasons mean 'baby steps', but hey that's just me.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

He put it together the year he was 21/22. Before that he was developing. It's not that difficult to fathom, for you maybe it is.

 

[Red Pavan]

Back to your daily rumblings in the Messi thread i see..

 

[reddevilcanada]

Seems like it's difficult for you to fathom the fact that during 18-21 he wasn't taking 'big steps', rather they were baby steps when compared to 22 onwards when he went from being inconsistent to the best player in the world.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

The fact that he was having brilliant seasons in the previous two is because he took massive leaps in those seasons?

Don't you think the ground work was laid in his previous seasons of development? Or in your eyes he was rubbish for 3 years and suddenly great...

He was inconsistent because he was putting it together, he put it all together at age 21. Meaning that the majority of his development was most likely done before hand and in his more formative years. After 21 he was a much better player, due to the developmental steps made season after season culminating in his best seasons aged 21-23....

Or as you put it, he took baby steps between 18-21 and developed enormously overnight and became the best player in the world....

In the real world that doesn’t happen, in football that doesn’t happen. But this argument actually has nothing to do with anything and if you want to argue about how, when and why Ronaldo is how good he is i suggest you create a "Ronaldo, why?" thread and continue your pointless musing there.

 

[reddevilcanada]

of course he was developing over the 18-21 age period, but he was developing slowly and gradually. From 21-23 the rate of his development accelerated quite a bit, i.e the really big steps were taken over this period, not during 18-21 when he was nowhere near the best player in the world though steadily improving. You can't seem to get your head around this fact: that going from an inconsistent player at 21 to widely recognized as the best player in the world is actually a bigger step than slowly taking 'baby steps' and gradually improving from 18-21.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

We disagree, that's fine.

I think he made more developmental steps aged 18-21 and you think he did 22-23. I don't care either way really and this thread isn't about the development of Ronaldo so these posts and points are irrelevent although most of the posts in this thread are as your lot can't seem to stop bringing up Ronaldo. It's like you're all infected by Ronaldo tourettes at the mention of Messi. Messi triggers your Ronaldo tourettes.

 

[Cal?]

I know many would say Ronaldo is only having a better season last year (for being more effective), but Messi and Kaka are clearly the better players. And your arguments are not any better than them.

The difference is that I accept my views on Ronaldo is a personal opinion and different people have different opinions.

However, the likes of vijay & FV like to force their opinions around as "fachts".

 

[FranklyVulgar]

However the likes of Cal? consistently put words in other peoples mouths when they have never claimed anything of the sort. But please ignore the amount of times you've decided someone has said something in a bizarre attempt to give yourself a wisp of credibility.

All this debate is about opinions, i feel strongly about mine however i'll be more than willing to accept it when i am proved wrong. But i feel so strongly that i really can't see myself being proved wrong.

Messi could go on and win world cups, champions league (again) and a whole host of individual awards and you would still find ways around giving him the credit he deserves. You would hide him behind his teams where as Ronaldo was the soul reason United were successful last season.

When Messi does something good it's his team that's good. When United do it's Ronaldo with you.

I should state that that is indeed a "FACHT"

 

[Cal?]

However the likes of Cal? consistently put words in other peoples mouths when they have never claimed anything of the sort. But please ignore the amount of times you've decided someone has said something in a bizarre attempt to give yourself a wisp of credibility.

All this debate is about opinions, i feel strongly about mine however i'll be more than willing to accept it when i am proved wrong. But i feel so strongly that i really can't see myself being proved wrong.

Messi could go on and win world cups, champions league (again) and a whole host of individual awards and you would still find ways around giving him the credit he deserves. You would hide him behind his teams where as Ronaldo was the soul reason United were successful last season.

When Messi does something good it's his team that's good. When United do it's Ronaldo with you.

I should state that that is indeed a "FACHT"

IE you can't accept different opinions just as I said...

Funny that, I could say exactly the same about you. When we won the PL/CL double, you keep going on about it being a team effort.

When Barca were awful last season, it has nothing to do with Messi, he was his brilliant self and useless players around him let him down.

Ronaldo could go on and win World Cup and Champions Leagues (again) and you'd find ways to argue Messi was the best player around despite not doing anything (eg against us at OT) and call him the MoTM.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

IE you can't accept different opinions just as I said...

Funny that, I could say exactly the same about you. When we won the PL/CL double, you keep going on about it being a team effort.

When Barca were awful last season, it has nothing to do with Messi, he was his brilliant self and useless players around him let him down.

Ronaldo could go on and win World Cup and Champions Leagues (again) and you'd find ways to argue Messi was the best player around despite not doing anything (eg against us at OT) and call him the MoTM.

I can accept them, i don't have to agree with them and the fact that i feel strongly allows me to continue these pointless debates and until i'm proven wrong i'll continue to do so. I'm guility of thinking Messi is the best player in the world, many many people agree with me. Outside of manchester united forums you'll find it's the majority and even a decent portion of your own agree with me.

What is your point? that Messi was rubbish last season? that he was the problem at Barcelona? That he was the reason they won nothing?

Ronaldo will never win the world cup.

He could easily win the champions league again. No team has ever done that but if United do then no doubt it'll all be down to one man. THat's right Ronaldo, so far he's managed 0 goals in 5 games in europe so the fact United have gotten this far obviously is owed to Ronaldo... So if they go on and win it it'll all be down to him. Just like last season..

 

[Cal?]

I can accept them, i don't have to agree with them and the fact that i feel strongly allows me to continue these pointless debates and until i'm proven wrong i'll continue to do so. I'm guility of thinking Messi is the best player in the world, many many people agree with me. Outside of manchester united forums you'll find it's the majority and even a decent portion of your own agree with me.
What is your point? that Messi was rubbish last season? that he was the problem at Barcelona? That he was the reason they won nothing?

Ronaldo will never win the world cup.

He could easily win the champions league again. No team has ever done that but if United do then no doubt it'll all be down to one man. THat's right Ronaldo, so far he's managed 0 goals in 5 games in europe so the fact United have gotten this far obviously is owed to Ronaldo... So if they go on and win it it'll all be down to him. Just like last season..

No one is trying to get you to agree with them, just accept that people may have different opinions.

The blue bit - if you're talking about this season alone, we agree. If you're talking about overall, I think you'd find that more people agree with ME, the voting on both the Ballon d'Or & WFOTY proves that.

Messi wasn't very good last season, his teammates had a bad season and he also had a mediocre season. Let's not forget whilst Ronaldo played 48 times last season, Messi played 40 times, don't try to pretend he's always injured.

Of course it's much more likely for Messi to win the World Cup than Ronaldo - Argentina have a much much better squad, but Ronaldo wasn't that far away from it 3 years ago, if Figo could head better from a few yards out, who knows what might have happened.

The green bit - now you're just being silly, did anyone made those claims at all?

 

[Brwned]

Seems like it's difficult for you to fathom the fact that during 18-21 he wasn't taking 'big steps', rather they were baby steps when compared to 22 onwards when he went from being inconsistent to the best player in the world.

He made the biggest leap when he was 21.

The difference between him in 06/07 and 07/08 was as big a difference as Ronaldo in 04/05 and 05/06, they'd be the baby steps he was talking about.

 

[kouroux]

I must give credit to Cal even I don't agree with him.It's all about opinions

 

[FranklyVulgar]

No one is trying to get you to agree with them, just accept that people may have different opinions.

The blue bit - if you're talking about this season alone, we agree. If you're talking about overall, I think you'd find that more people agree with ME, the voting on both the Ballon d'Or & WFOTY proves that.

Messi wasn't very good last season, his teammates had a bad season and he also had a mediocre season. Let's not forget whilst Ronaldo played 48 times last season, Messi played 40 times, don't try to pretend he's always injured.

Of course it's much more likely for Messi to win the World Cup than Ronaldo - Argentina have a much much better squad, but Ronaldo wasn't that far away from it 3 years ago, if Figo could head better from a few yards out, who knows what might have happened.

The green bit - now you're just being silly, did anyone made those claims at all?

Yes Ronaldo had a better season and fully deserved to win the ballon do'r and that is all well and good however it doesn't make him the best player in the world. Cannavaro was never the best player in the world but he won it. It is a measure of achievement not always who is the best. For example if Maradona had won the award and then had a season where he was half injured. He wouldn't win it that season, would it stop him being the best footballer on the planet? No it wouldn’t but you couldn't justifiably award him the award based on a seasons work.

How on earth could such a "mediocre" player like Messi come runner up two years in a row for these prestigious awards. remember these same people who voted for your Ronaldo also thought a "mediocre" Messi was the 2nd best player in the world. How on earth could that happen? Cal? you must agree with me that this makes no sense what so ever, something isn't right when a player can have a mediocre season and still end up being voted the 2nd best player of that season...

The green bit is a tongue in cheek analysis of your own "opinions" considering your "opinion" was indeed that last season United winning the CL and Prem was down to Ronaldo. Sorry if that went over your head.

 

[Cal?]

Yes Ronaldo had a better season and fully deserved to win the ballon do'r and that is all well and good however it doesn't make him the best player in the world. Cannavaro was never the best player in the world but he won it. It is a measure of achievement not always who is the best. For example if Maradona had won the award and then had a season where he was half injured. He wouldn't win it that season, would it stop him being the best footballer on the planet? No it wouldn’t but you couldn't justifiably award him the award based on a seasons work.

How on earth could such a "mediocre" player like Messi come runner up two years in a row for these prestigious awards. remember these same people who voted for your Ronaldo also thought a "mediocre" Messi was the 2nd best player in the world. How on earth could that happen? Cal? you must agree with me that this makes no sense what so ever, something isn't right when a player can have a mediocre season and still end up being voted the 2nd best player of that season...

The green bit is a tongue in cheek analysis of your own "opinions" considering your "opinion" was indeed that last season United winning the CL and Prem was down to Ronaldo. Sorry if that went over your head.

The fact Messi finished 2nd for doing feck all just shows the La Liga bias of these awards - any of the top Spanish players who won the Euro deserved 2nd place ahead of him.

I never said United winning the PL/CL is only down to Ronaldo, I said he played the biggest part, contributed the most.

You on the other hand seem to want to credit Messi for everything good Barca managed in the last few years as if the likes of Xavi, Iniesta are just there to make up the numbers.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

The fact Messi finished 2nd for doing feck all just shows the La Liga bias of these awards - any of the top Spanish players who won the Euro deserved 2nd place ahead of him.

I never said United winning the PL/CL is only down to Ronaldo, I said he played the biggest part, contributed the most.

You on the other hand seem to want to credit Messi for everything good Barca managed in the last few years as if the likes of Xavi, Iniesta are just there to make up the numbers.

Again you put words in peoples mouths.... Never once did i belittle other players, never once did i say that Xavi or Iniesta were anything other than world class.

I do however credit Messi with most things that are good about Barcelona, with damn good reasoning too. They leave him out against Betis and draw. When he is on the pitch the team is elivated, the stats are there for all to see. When he plays they average 3 every 70mins when he's not they manage 1 a game.

He is without a shadow of a doubt the most important player in that team, every player in that team admits it, every barca fan would say so and only you seem hell bent on playing down his importance.

Xavi is world class and the best central midfielder in the world and how Iniesta wasn't shortlisted for the top awards i'll never know. More La Liga bias i guess....

 

[vijay]

That doesn't make him light years ahead of anybody, nor the best in the world in that department, though.

Vijay fancies hyperbolic statements he knows are contestable, for some reason.

Never overhyped Messi so far, but some here are of the opinion the current players can never be as good as past greats, however good they are whilst some write the opinions without having seen him play.

For instance when I say Messi dominated against Juventus when the Italian media picked him as MOM and Capello claimed even Maradona and Ronaldo werent that good at 18, you let your blinkered opinion he didnt dominate but only played well. If I sample it Messi against Juventus was as good as Ronaldo against Scotland in the 98 WC, constant threat through out and setting up the winning goal a through ball that bisected the Juventus midfield and found Eto, yet you let out a one liner like it never happenned.

Messi is no Maradona, ability or skill level is not there, but has the potential to surpass the rest, a facht many are finding it hard to digest.

 

[Cal?]

Again you put words in peoples mouths.... Never once did i belittle other players, never once did i say that Xavi or Iniesta were anything other than world class.

I do however credit Messi with most things that are good about Barcelona, with damn good reasoning too. They leave him out against Betis and draw. When he is on the pitch the team is elivated, the stats are there for all to see. When he plays they average 3 every 70mins when he's not they manage 1 a game.

He is without a shadow of a doubt the most important player in that team, every player in that team admits it, every barca fan would say so and only you seem hell bent on playing down his importance.

Xavi is world class and the best central midfielder in the world and how Iniesta wasn't shortlisted for the top awards i'll never know. More La Liga bias i guess....

Hmm... best in the World Messi and World class performances from Xavi & Messi doesn't really lead to finishing 18pt behind Real Madrid.

He is the most important player for Barca, just like Ronaldo was last season for United when we won the PL/CL.

 

[Cal?]

Never overhyped Messi so far, but some here are of the opinion the current players can never be as good as past greats, however good they are whilst some write the opinions without having seen him play.

For instance when I say Messi dominated against Juventus when the Italian media picked him as MOM and Capello claimed even Maradona and Ronaldo werent that good at 18, you let your blinkered opinion he didnt dominate but only played well. If I sample it Messi against Juventus was as good as Ronaldo against Scotland in the 98 WC, constant threat through out and setting up the winning goal a through ball that bisected the Juventus midfield and found Eto, yet you let out a one liner like it never happenned.

Messi is no Maradona, ability or skill level is not there, but has the potential to surpass the rest, a facht many are finding it hard to digest.

Finally you seem to be getting some sense. Potential does not equate to already the best player in the World (which perhaps he is this season), but certainly NOT in the last few seasons like you claim.

 

[vijay]

Finally you seem to be getting some sense. Potential does not equate to already the best player in the World (which perhaps he is this season), but certainly NOT in the last few seasons like you claim.

That so called hype around him is based on last few seasons, if not for his performances he wouldn't have got the hype.

Messi hasnt surpassed the Zidane or Goofy Ronaldo but one more season like the current and a great world cup he should go up there if not higher.

Almost inevitably, the discussion shifted to Lionel Messi's wonder goal, with the press wanting to know what the Madrid coach thought about it.

"It was extraordinary and I am glad such a young player has done something so beautiful," he responded.

"His goal has gone around the globe, helping promote good football. I'm very happy for him. I have always liked him."

Capello's interest in the Argentine is indeed no secret. In fact, he had even asked Rijkaard for a loan deal in August 2005, when Juventus and Barcelona had met at the Camp Nou in the annual Joan Gamper trophy clash. Messi had just put in a sizzling dispaly, prompting Capello to pop the question on the touchline itself. Needless to say, Rijkaard politely refused.

 

[Cal?]

That so called hype around him is based on last few seasons, if not for his performances he wouldn't have got the hype.

Messi hasnt surpassed the Zidane or Goofy Ronaldo but one more season like the current and a great world cup he should go up there if not higher.

Almost inevitably, the discussion shifted to Lionel Messi's wonder goal, with the press wanting to know what the Madrid coach thought about it.

"It was extraordinary and I am glad such a young player has done something so beautiful," he responded.

"His goal has gone around the globe, helping promote good football. I'm very happy for him. I have always liked him."

Capello's interest in the Argentine is indeed no secret. In fact, he had even asked Rijkaard for a loan deal in August 2005, when Juventus and Barcelona had met at the Camp Nou in the annual Joan Gamper trophy clash. Messi had just put in a sizzling dispaly, prompting Capello to pop the question on the touchline itself. Needless to say, Rijkaard politely refused.

Your point being? A few years ago Capello saw a lot of potential in Messi? Anyone could tell you that.

What you have not shown, anywhere, is anyone except yourself & FV claiming Messi has been the best player in the World in the last few seasons.

I'm just saying Messi needs to keep up his current form a while longer before I'd be convinced he's as good as Ronaldo.

 

[JazzG]

Gotta give it to Cal there are about 10 people here calling him an idiot and he still hasn't budged an inch from his stance.

 

[peterstorey]

Well he's only one of a number of idiots but he distinguishes himself by being probably the most unsporting poster of all.

 

[vijay]

Your point being? A few years ago Capello saw a lot of potential in Messi? Anyone could tell you that.

What you have not shown, anywhere, is anyone except yourself & FV claiming Messi has been the best player in the World in the last few seasons.

I'm just saying Messi needs to keep up his current form a while longer before I'd be convinced he's as good as Ronaldo.

My point...

There was hardly any other 18 year old footballer dominating against X rated teams with style ... barring Fat Ronaldo when he was 19. Any young talented footballer can play well and trouble big teams on his day, Ronaldinho troubled Argentina in 99 Copa America, ten years prior to that Romario did the same in the 89 Copa America, our Ronaldo did it against us in the preseason before he signed for us but only few like Messi can dominate the opposition in style , a simple concept many of you blinkered lot choose to ignore.

Messi certainly wasn't the best player in the world until this season, even an established footballer however good he is cannot be rated as the best if the manager chooses to protect him with the player also being injury prone. But whenever he was match fit, it ran out of superlatives, at times even shading the best the player in the world then playing for the same team ....a level of performance we are yet to see from 23 year Ronaldo or any of his contemporaries.