Lionel Messi

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FranklyVulgar said:
Bias has nothing to do with it Brwned, a performance is a performance. I might hate Frank Lampard, i might despise Liverpool and find them tumescent at the best of times but if they put in a good performance who am i to say they were shit even when i could clearly see they were good? Like Liverpool against Newcastle, i watched that game and Liverpool actually played really well. I don't like liverpool but i'll admit they played well.

Either i'm a complete idiot or Ronaldo was rubbish against Derby. Even if i am a complete retard that doesn't change the fact that Ronaldo was rubbish in that game. It doesn't matter, other players played great and United won comfortably. Ronaldo will play better, hopefully when it matters more but that doesn't change the fact that he played a stinker. Bias or no bias that's the truth.
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No one is trying to say Ronaldo played very well against Derby, but clearly he was far from "rubbish" as you put it.

Looking at the rating thread:

Dippersripper - 7
Scholesy - 6
December_16 - 6.5
SharkyMcShark - 7
Rahul - 6
R.Nilsson7 - 7
Raven_Blade - 7
UnofficialDevil - 8
MaroonPondlife - 6
Wonder Pigeon - 6
032Devil - 7
WeWonItTwoTimes - 6
noodlehair - 7
Name Changed - 6
charlenefan - 7
Anderson Searl - 7
etc

Based on what all those people thought, I think we can conclude you're a retard (or you are just extremely biased against Ronaldo)
 
I'd give him a 5, purely for his header. Apart from that he really offered the team nothing, he didnt create a single opening, trouble the keeper or even manage to take the ball around Robbie Savage.

The team played well, Ronaldo didn't.

I'd love to be surprised by these ratings i really would...

Actually Cal? give me a minute to take what i need to make me look good from the rating thread.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I'm going to have a look at the ratings thread, if the majority think he played well i think i'll pack my bags.

Unfortunately after having a read over the rating it appears i am not alone in my views of Ronaldos performance.
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Right, based on the fact most people gave him 6 or 7, a few 5 & 8, you've concluded people agree with you that he was "poor", "inept" & "rubbish".

I see.
 
Cal? said:
No one is trying to say Ronaldo played very well against Derby, but clearly he was far from "rubbish" as you put it.

Looking at the rating thread:

Dippersripper - 7
Scholesy - 6
December_16 - 6.5
SharkyMcShark - 7
Rahul - 6
R.Nilsson7 - 7
Raven_Blade - 7
UnofficialDevil - 8
MaroonPondlife - 6
Wonder Pigeon - 6
032Devil - 7
WeWonItTwoTimes - 6
noodlehair - 7
Name Changed - 6
charlenefan - 7
Anderson Searl - 7
etc

Based on what all those people thought, I think we can conclude you're a retard (or you are just extremely biased against Ronaldo)
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Almost all listed there are bellends...

I'd give a rating of 6 to Ronaldo.

Had he scored earlier he would've had a better match.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I'd give him a 5, purely for his header. Apart from that he really offered the team nothing, he didnt create a single opening, trouble the keeper or even manage to take the ball around Robbie Savage.

The team played well, Ronaldo didn't.

I'd love to be surprised by these ratings i really would...

Actually Cal? give me a minute to take what i need to make me look good from the rating thread.
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Right, if we're going to do it that way I'm going to watch the match all over again, and point out good pieces of play from him.

I don't think you appreciate off the ball movement enough, which is pretty much at the cruz of this argument.
 
vijay said:
Almost all listed there are bellends...

I'd give a rating of 6 to Ronaldo.

Had he scored earlier he would've had a better match.
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People who don't agree with the "Ronaldo is rubbish" theory are bellends. :wenger:

I'm not arguing he had a very good game, but clearly wasn't "rubbish" or "inept" like FV said.
 
Brwned said:
Right, if we're going to do it that way I'm going to watch the match all over again, and point out good pieces of play from him.

I don't think you appreciate off the ball movement enough, which is pretty much at the cruz of this argument.
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FV thinks football is all about dribbling, hence Messi is so great and Ronaldo is "rubbish".
 
Cal? said:
Right, based on the fact most people gave him 6 or 7, a few 5 & 8, you've concluded people agree with you that he was "poor", "inept" & "rubbish".

I see.
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Yeah an 8, give me a break. Some muppet gave giggs a 5 in that thread....

anyway here is my own take on taking things from the ratings thread.

Following comments from United fans who posted ratings.

"Good goal, apart from it, poor"
"Shite performance. Absolutely awful. Good finishes."
"Too many flicks. Scored two goals."
"He's better than these kind of performances. Hoping he gets back to 07/08 form"
"Mixed display. Sporadic moments of quality. Disallowed goal was atoned for with headed goal. Misfiring at times but still posed danger."
"kia"
"Had it not been for his goal he struggle to get this rating. Poor show." rating was a 6.
"still doing that gay Jonny Wilkinson style stuff"
"crap. Whinging and petulant all thru game."
"Just out for a stroll"
"I thought he was awful but scored a good goal"
"6 (and that's only because he scored - otherwise he was awful)"
"scored 2 good goals, otherwise poor, seemed to think it was an exhibition game, which it probably was"

Poor, inept and rubbish indeed.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Yeah an 8, give me a break. Some muppet gave giggs a 5 in that thread....

anyway here is my own take on taking things from the ratings thread.

Following comments from United fans who posted ratings.

"Good goal, apart from it, poor"
"Shite performance. Absolutely awful. Good finishes."
"Too many flicks. Scored two goals."
"He's better than these kind of performances. Hoping he gets back to 07/08 form"
"Mixed display. Sporadic moments of quality. Disallowed goal was atoned for with headed goal. Misfiring at times but still posed danger."
"kia"
"Had it not been for his goal he struggle to get this rating. Poor show." rating was a 6.
"still doing that gay Jonny Wilkinson style stuff"
"crap. Whinging and petulant all thru game."
"Just out for a stroll"
"I thought he was awful but scored a good goal"
"6 (and that's only because he scored - otherwise he was awful)"
"scored 2 good goals, otherwise poor, seemed to think it was an exhibition game, which it probably was"

Poor, inept and rubbish indeed.
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Right, so because one or two people agree with you, everyone else are idiots.
 
Cal? said:
FV thinks football is all about dribbling, hence Messi is so great and Ronaldo is "rubbish".
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:lol:

and there it is, the classic Messi counter argument. Another wonderful slice of Cal?s cake of invention. I am after all constantly banging on about football being "all about dribbling" and Ronaldo being "rubbish" :lol:

I said he was rubbish against Derby Cal? and i've never once said football was all about dribbling :wenger:

If it was we wouldn't even be having this debate because Messi is clearly the best dribbler in the world, however it takes alot more than that to be a great player.

I thought your justification for Ronaldo being better based on "better freekicks and heading" was stupid, this is even worse but please keep it up i don't think it's just me getting a laugh out of your idiocy.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I've admitted that much, he has had quiet games but also outstanding games. Messi can be MOTM without scoring a goal, Ronaldo can't. Every shred of justification for Ronaldo now boils down to goals. He scored against Derby therefore he didnt give an otherwise inept performance...
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Ridiculous statement. This is the main reason why this thread is so long. You can't praise Messi without having silly digs at Ronaldo.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
:lol:

and there it is, the classic Messi counter argument. Another wonderful slice of Cal?s cake of invention. I am after all constantly banging on about football being "all about dribbling" and Ronaldo being "rubbish" :lol:

I said he was rubbish against Derby Cal? and i've never once said football was all about dribbling :wenger:

If it was we wouldn't even be having this debate because Messi is clearly the best dribbler in the world, however it takes alot more than that to be a great player.

I thought your justification for Ronaldo being better based on "better freekicks and heading" was stupid, this is even worse but please keep it up i don't think it's just me getting a laugh out of your idiocy.
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You seem to think dribbling is the most important part in football, in your assesment of Ronaldo in the Derby game, you pointed out he didn't even go past Savage as if that is a vitally important thing to do, rather than scoring a goal like Ronaldo did (a header which Messi wouldn't have been able to score).

I said Ronaldo is better at heading & freekicks but I never said he's the better player because of those things, merely pointing out that Ronaldo & Messi have very different attributes - Ronaldo being better at somethings and Messi others. You on the other hand, imply that heading and freekicks are unimportant yet dribbling is vital.
 
I love how he just pulls some bullshit comment out of his arse that you've supposedly said, and uses it as the basis of his 'arguement.' He then has the audacity to continue doing this even after you've pointed it out, again and again and again.

Not only that he'll make some claim against you about something you've supposedly did, and then do the exact same thing back.

It's beyond ridiculous now. Surely, I mean SURELY he's just some elaborate wind-up, because noone could possibly be this stupid in real life. It's absolutely astonishing. He's living in his own retarded world.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
I love how he just pulls some bullshit comment out of his arse that you've supposedly said, and uses it as the basis of his 'arguement.' He then has the audacity to continue doing this even after you've pointed it out, again and again and again.

Not only that he'll make some claim against you about something you've supposedly did, and then do the exact same thing back.

It's beyond ridiculous now. Surely, I mean SURELY he's just some elaborate wind-up, because noone could possibly be this stupid in real life. It's absolutely astonishing. He's living in his own retarded world.
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No way anyone could think Ronaldo is better than Messi, just like no way anyone can argue Henry wasn't the greatest ever PL player.

Arsenal fans and their "fachts"...
 
Cal? said:
You really are in love with this smilie :lol: , aren't you?
:wenger:
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Show me once, just once in the following where he said everyone who doesn't agree with him is an idiot:

Cal? said:
Yeah an 8, give me a break. Some muppet gave giggs a 5 in that thread....

anyway here is my own take on taking things from the ratings thread.

Following comments from United fans who posted ratings.

"Good goal, apart from it, poor"
"Shite performance. Absolutely awful. Good finishes."
"Too many flicks. Scored two goals."
"He's better than these kind of performances. Hoping he gets back to 07/08 form"
"Mixed display. Sporadic moments of quality. Disallowed goal was atoned for with headed goal. Misfiring at times but still posed danger."
"kia"
"Had it not been for his goal he struggle to get this rating. Poor show." rating was a 6.
"still doing that gay Jonny Wilkinson style stuff"
"crap. Whinging and petulant all thru game."
"Just out for a stroll"
"I thought he was awful but scored a good goal"
"6 (and that's only because he scored - otherwise he was awful)"
"scored 2 good goals, otherwise poor, seemed to think it was an exhibition game, which it probably was"

Poor, inept and rubbish indeed.
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Why do you continue to invent shit and then use it as some sort of point? Oh, and I like how you claim he bent thing in his favour, yet you go on to say only 'one or two' people agree with him.

You better go check your colostomy bag kid because you're dribbling shit today.
 
Ronaldo > Messi

I loathe the day the little one wins WPOTY, the Messi stans will be in FULL force for A year.
 
Cal? said:
No way anyone could think Ronaldo is better than Messi, just like no way anyone can argue Henry wasn't the greatest ever PL player.

Arsenal fans and their "fachts"...
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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

And so he does it again.

We've been through this before now Cal, haven't we?

I've been very careful to say Messi is CURRENTLY playing better, do you deny this? Do you not agree with that? Can you even agree even in the light of all the evidence?

No, you can't because you're the head little fanboii beat-off brigade twat.

Also, care to explain what that post has to do with the one you quoted? Or what Henry has to do with it?

I laugh at you.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Show me once, just once in the following where he said everyone who doesn't agree with him is an idiot:
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FranklyVulgar said:
Either i'm a complete idiot or Ronaldo was rubbish against Derby.
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:smirk: Clear enough?

cesc's_mullet said:
Why do you continue to invent shit and then use it as some sort of point? Oh, and I like how you claim he bent thing in his favour, yet you go on to say only 'one or two' people agree with him.

You better go check your colostomy bag kid because you're dribbling shit today.
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One person said "crap", another said "awful", the rest said he was sporadic or had a stroll - hardly equates to FV's view of him being "inept", does it?
 
Psmith said:
Ridiculous statement. This is the main reason why this thread is so long. You can't praise Messi without having silly digs at Ronaldo.
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Since 06/07 i dont think he has been MOTM without scoring. And this is this long because people constantly bring Ronaldo into it when it's a thread about Messi. Not because i keep bringing up Ronaldo, i didn't to begin with and i'm only responding to others.

Cal? said:
You seem to think dribbling is the most important part in football, in your assesment of Ronaldo in the Derby game, you pointed out he didn't even go past Savage as if that is a vitally important thing to do, rather than scoring a goal like Ronaldo did (a header which Messi wouldn't have been able to score).

I said Ronaldo is better at heading & freekicks but I never said he's the better player because of those things, merely pointing out that Ronaldo & Messi have very different attributes - Ronaldo being better at somethings and Messi others. You on the other hand, imply that heading and freekicks are unimportant yet dribbling is vital.
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I forgot that dribbling is in no way a part of Ronaldos game, i forgot that pacey skillful attacking players who try and beat men were supposed to lose it every time.

There is no finer sight in world football than a player in full flight beating players, maybe you prefer to watch headers and free kicks. I like to watch fast interchanges of passing and dribbling, i think it's good to see.

Heading and freekicks arn't unimportant, yet again something i have never said. I think i said something along the lines of.... You probably want your most attacking/creative player to have attributes that can open up the game, dribbling and passing abilities tend to do this. Strangely heading and freekicks don't. In open play at least, which to be honest is where everyone wants to see the game play.

Dribbling is one of the most dangerous things along side defense splitting passes because it draws defenders and pulls apart otherwise well organized defenses, that's why for a creative attacking forward/player it is a better attribute for my money than free kicks or heading. Two things which can be done by a defender rather than your best player.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I forgot that dribbling is in no way a part of Ronaldos game, i forgot that pacey skillful attacking players who try and beat men were supposed to lose it every time.

There is no finer sight in world football than a player in full flight beating players, maybe you prefer to watch headers and free kicks. I like to watch fast interchanges of passing and dribbling, i think it's good to see.

Heading and freekicks arn't unimportant, yet again something i have never said. I think i said something along the lines of.... You probably want your most attacking/creative player to have attributes that can open up the game, dribbling and passing abilities tend to do this. Strangely heading and freekicks dont.

Dribbling is one of the most dangerous things along side defense splitting passes because it draws defenders and pulls apart otherwise well organized defenses, that's why for a creative attacking forward/player it is a better attribute for my money than free kicks or heading. Two things which can be done by a defender rather than your best player.
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I think the most important part of a football game is winning it - to do so, you have to score more goals than the opposition - hence heading and freekicks are very important.

I've said many times that Ronaldo at his best (06-08) is the more effective player.

You may prefer Messi's attributes, stop trying to impose that opinion on others.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

And so he does it again.

We've been through this before now Cal, haven't we?

I've been very careful to say Messi is CURRENTLY playing better, do you deny this? Do you not agree with that? Can you even agree even in the light of all the evidence?

No, you can't because you're the head little fanboii beat-off brigade twat.

Also, care to explain what that post has to do with the one you quoted? Or what Henry has to do with it?

I laugh at you.
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The biggest problem here is that I'm arguing against FV & vijay (2 true Messi fanbois), you just have sly digs at me clearly for my anti-L'Arse stance.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
So you are firmly of the opinion that Gerd Muller is the greatest player of all time Cal? ?

after all there has never been a more effective player.
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That's your opinion.

Putting the ball in the net is not the only thing effective about Ronaldo's game.
 
Cal? said:
:smirk: Clear enough?


One person said "crap", another said "awful", the rest said he was sporadic or had a stroll - hardly equates to FV's view of him being "inept", does it?
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in⋅ept

1. without skill or aptitude for a particular task or assignment; maladroit:
2. generally awkward or clumsy; haplessly incompetent.
3. inappropriate; unsuitable; out of place.
4. absurd or foolish: an inept remark.

I'm pretty sure that exactly what it equates to.

And I love how you assume he was attacking everyone who doesn't agree with him, by that. Quite clearly he was saying that as the minority and that he felt it was so obvious that he played inept that he must be an idiot if everyone else didn't. Once again your e-hard me vs them mentality kicks in and gets it wrong.

Keep trying.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
If i'm a Messi fan boy then so is Fabio Capello.
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Did Capello ever say Messi was the man of the match when Ronaldinho got the standing ovation at the Bernabeu?

Did he ever say Messi "ever since he broke through" has always been the best player in the world when fit?
 
cesc's_mullet said:
in⋅ept

1. without skill or aptitude for a particular task or assignment; maladroit:
2. generally awkward or clumsy; haplessly incompetent.
3. inappropriate; unsuitable; out of place.
4. absurd or foolish: an inept remark.

I'm pretty sure that exactly what it equates to.

And I love how you assume he was attacking everyone who doesn't agree with him, by that. Quite clearly he was saying that as the minority and that he felt it was so obvious that he played inept that he must be an idiot if everyone else didn't. Once again your e-hard me vs them mentality kicks in and gets it wrong.

Keep trying.
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:lol: Which exact comment said Ronaldo was "without skill" or "generally awkward"? :lol:

He said either an idiot or Ronaldo was rubbish - a whole series of 7s imply most people don't think he was rubbish, hence he implied they're all idiots.

Once again, you bore me.
 
Cal? said:
The biggest problem here is that I'm arguing against FV & vijay (2 true Messi fanbois), you just have sly digs at me clearly for my anti-L'Arse stance.
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I'm sorry you didn't answer the question.

Who is currently player better, Ronaldo or Messi?

Answer it, it's simple - just type the name of the player and press post.

And they're not sly digs, they're blatant as feck. Though it's not because you're anti-Gooner; if I had problems with anti-Gooner's I'd have been run out of here years ago. It's because you come up with so much bullshit, blatant lies and ignorant claims that it's impossible not to pot or laugh at you. There could never be any reasonable unbiased proper discussion where you're involved.
 
Cal? said:
:lol: Which exact comment said Ronaldo was "without skill" or "generally awkward"? :lol:

He said either an idiot or Ronaldo was rubbish - a whole series of 7s imply most people don't think he was rubbish, hence he implied they're all idiots.

Once again, you bore me.
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:lol:

It's clear now English isn't your first language, which could explain a bit.

But I'll give you kudos for trying though.
 
Cal? said:
Did Capello ever say Messi was the man of the match when Ronaldinho got the standing ovation at the Bernabeu?

Did he ever say Messi "ever since he broke through" has always been the best player in the world when fit?
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:lol: did i? I didn't watch that match i can't comment.

I'm of the opinion that he's been the best player in the world for a couple of years now that's true. Injuries have held him back but my opinion is when he plays to the best of his ability no-one is better. That remains and he's been that way for a couple of years. Bearing in mind he turned 21 this season and it's quite remarkable really.

But like Capello i say he has something extra, something different that makes him stand out and makes him the better player. That is all, my opinion wont change on it unless someone blows the footballing world away.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
I'm sorry you didn't answer the question.

Who is currently player better, Ronaldo or Messi?

Answer it, it's simple - just type the name of the player and press post.

And they're not sly digs, they're blatant as feck. Though it's not because you're anti-Gooner; if it was I have problems with anti-Gooner's I'd have been run out of here years ago. It's because you come up with so much bullshit, blatant lies and ignorant claims that it's impossible not to pot or laugh at you. There could never be any reasonable unbiased proper discussion where you're involved.
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Ronaldo, Messi is having a better season.

You don't like me cos I hate Arsenal and your legened Henry, you can try to disguise this as much as you like, but it wouldn't change anything.

You bore me.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
:lol: did i? I didn't watch that match i can't comment.

I'm of the opinion that he's been the best player in the world for a couple of years now that's true. Injuries have held him back but my opinion is when he plays to the best of his ability no-one is better. That remains and he's been that way for a couple of years. Bearing in mind he turned 21 this season and it's quite remarkable really.

But like Capello i say he has something extra, something different that makes him stand out and makes him the better player. That is all, my opinion wont change on it unless someone blows the footballing world away.
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Find a link that has Capello saying "Messi is better than Ronaldo"... :rolleyes:
 
Cal? said:
That's your opinion.

Putting the ball in the net is not the only thing effective about Ronaldo's game.
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Throughout 06/07, it would've been outrageous to suggest that Ronaldo was simply a ruthlessly effective goalscorer; last year, less so.

It depends what type of player you want, but the former was a much better overall footballer. You seem to be obsessed with statistics, yet the level of a player's performance cannot always be determined by a figure. Against Derby, I'd say that Ronaldo put in an 07/08 performance - he did what was required by scoring the goal, yet had very little overall impact on our play. This was done consistently throughout last year and, as a result, he became the most efficient forward we've had since Van Nistelrooy. He was a brilliant player to have, basically.

2 years ago, Ronaldo would've made every single Derby defender on the pitch look incredibly stupid, and would've looked to have done something creative and dangerous every time he got the ball - in all likelihood, he would've also scored. This is the Ronaldo that comes close to Messi; both these players dominate games from start to finish.
 
Cal? said:
Find a link that has Capello saying "Messi is better than Ronaldo"... :rolleyes:
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Capello: Messi is better than Ronaldo and Robben

England boss Fabio Capello claims Barcelona ace Lionel Messi is better than Cristiano Ronaldo and Arjen Robben.

Capello believes Messi is 'Maradona's successor' in his home country.

Capello told Sport: "He can do incredible things and is an exceptional player. He is Maradona's successor."

The former Real Madrid coach also claimed that neither Cristiano Ronaldo or Arjen Robben 'has the talent that Messi has'.

He added: "The two of them are great players, but nobody in the world has the talent that Messi has."

He continued on Barcelona: "They are playing well, with their traditional style. They pass the ball around well because they have the players for that. They are a very good team, but if they are the best or not I do not know.

"I think that Barca will progress to the next round [of the Champions League], but after that each tie will be very even."
 
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