Lionel Messi

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Cal? said:
Talk about changing facts to suit your story - Messi played a number of league games before the United match and was rested the weekend before facing United.

As I've already said, how come you only respect the opinions of those praising Messi? I guess the likes of Best, Figo, Eusebio, Sir Alex all talk out of their ass when they praise Ronaldo. :rolleyes:
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No he didnt, he came off the bench in the game before the first leg against United. THat was his only action after injury. United was his first start but yeah i'm making this up to suit my story...

Best? United legend, Figo and Eusebio? Portuguese legends. Sir Alex? United legend.

Do you see the trend here? Do you see the common theme in this?
 
FranklyVulgar said:
No he didnt, he came off the bench in the game before the first leg against United. THat was his only action after injury. United was his first start but yeah i'm making this up to suit my story...

Best? United legend, Figo and Eusebio? Portuguese legends. Sir Alex? United legend.

Do you see the trend here? Do you see the common theme in this?
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The common theme seems to be you giving those people no respect.

Was he or was he not rested before the 2nd leg? I was talking about the 2nd leg earlier and there's even a few clips on the last page, surely that's obvious...
 
Cal? said:
The common theme seems to be you giving those people no respect.

Was he or was he not rested before the 2nd leg? I was talking about the 2nd leg earlier and there's even a few clips on the last page, surely that's obvious...
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well i think the fact the first leg was his first start after injury might be an indication of his fitness and match sharpness going into the next couple of weeks. Hardly surprising he was rested given how far behind they were in the league and the fact that he only just came back for the first leg. But yeah i'm sure any other team would have played him 3 times a week after a serious injury...

I'm not giving these people no respect, just pointing out the common theme. You can't know if Best wouldn't say Messi was better, he might have, unfortunately we'll never know. Ronaldo is Figos heir for Portugal, hardly surprising the portuguese will praise him, even then i haven't seen an interview with figo recently, i'm sure he'd admit Messi is better.

Fergie loves Messi, you can tell when he spoke of him but Fergie like Mourinho will say what is best for his players and his team.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
well i think the fact the first leg was his first start after injury might be an indication of his fitness and match sharpness going into the next couple of weeks. Hardly surprising he was rested given how far behind they were in the league and the fact that he only just came back for the first leg. But yeah i'm sure any other team would have played him 3 times a week after a serious injury...

I'm not giving these people no respect, just pointing out the common theme. You can't know if Best wouldn't say Messi was better, he might have, unfortunately we'll never know. Ronaldo is Figos heir for Portugal, hardly surprising the portuguese will praise him, even then i haven't seen an interview with figo recently, i'm sure he'd admit Messi is better.

Fergie loves Messi, you can tell when he spoke of him but Fergie like Mourinho will say what is best for his players and his team.
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There is no point arguing about it, so you ignored United greats' opinions and take everything other people say to heart about how great Messi is.

The fact remains that Messi needs to at least finish this season strongly to deserve comparison with Ronaldo, god forbid he gets injured again...
 
kouroux said:
Ronaldo was the best player the last 2 seasons and his personal titles proved that officially.
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But that isn't enough for some people, they live in this little dream that Messi really is Maradona II and he was the reason Barca ever won La Liga & the CL a few seasons ago, Ronaldinho was only there to make up the numbers.
 
Cal? said:
There is no point arguing about it, so you ignored United greats' opinions and take everything other people say to heart about how great Messi is.

The fact remains that Messi needs to at least finish this season strongly to deserve comparison with Ronaldo, god forbid he gets injured again...
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I don't ingnore them, i take them with a pinch of salt the same way i do all the argentine and Barca legends who bang on about Messi being the best. But when you have your biggest rivals admitting you are the best player in the world that tells me more. When you have respected managers including the England manager that tells you more in my opinion.

"god forbid he gets injured again"

You actually want him to get injured, that's the type of person you are, you can't enjoy the show, it has to be united or nothing for you. You actually will and wish him to be crocked so you can remain in your safe little "messi gets injured" bubble so you can continue to ignore him as a player because only players who play in winning teams and play every game of a season can be considered great players in your eyes. Pathetic

You would rather a potential great is cut down by injuries than reach the heights he can, that says a lot about you as a person and as a "football fan"...
 
When Messi scores with his cock he'll be the best until then he's nowhere near.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I don't ingnore them, i take them with a pinch of salt the same way i do all the argentine and Barca legends who bang on about Messi being the best. But when you have your biggest rivals admitting you are the best player in the world that tells me more. When you have respected managers including the England manager that tells you more in my opinion.

"god forbid he gets injured again"

You actually want him to get injured, that's the type of person you are, you can't enjoy the show, it has to be united or nothing for you. You actually will and wish him to be crocked so you can remain in your safe little "messi gets injured" bubble so you can continue to ignore him as a player because only players who play in winning teams and play every game of a season can be considered great players in your eyes. Pathetic

You would rather a potential great is cut down by injuries than reach the heights he can, that says a lot about you as a person and as a "football fan"...
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Now that's a little dramatic.
 
Sarni said:
Now that's a little dramatic.
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Cal? has hardly hidden his hatred for Barcelona or Messi for that matter, the idea of anyone being even compared to his beloved Ronaldo is sacrilege let alone people daring to say he is actually better than him, how his blood boils.

Bizarely enough he claims to watch Barcelona and Messi despite them being only behind Liverpool in his list of most hated teams. He hates Barcelona more than Manchester City!? He is a strange one, i dont really believe he watches either Barcelona or Messi, why anyone would choose to watch one of their most hated teams is beyond me. My guess would be he says he does to make it seem like he actually has an opinion on the matter when quite clearly he doesn't.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Cal? has hardly hidden his hatred for Barcelona or Messi for that matter, the idea of anyone being even compared to his beloved Ronaldo is sacrilege let alone people daring to say he is actually better than him, how his blood boils.

Bizarely enough he claims to watch Barcelona and Messi despite them being only behind Liverpool in his list of most hated teams. He hates Barcelona more than Manchester City!? He is a strange one, i dont really believe he watches either Barcelona or Messi, why anyone would choose to watch one of their most hated teams is beyond me. My guess would be he says he does to make it seem like he actually has an opinion on the matter when quite clearly he doesn't.
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Even if he watches them, he has a bizarre understanding of football as a competition where team's trophies indicate the quality of every single individual in the team.

I watched them a lot the past two seasons and from what I saw I could gather that Messi was doing quite well for them, as was the likes of Xavi or Iniesta but the team lacked clue at times and was tactically inept under Rijkaard. Their defense was also not good enough most of the time, and their strikers were either injured or not at their best last season. The whole Ronaldinho circus didn't help either. It was certainly not Messi's fault though because for a 19-year old and then a 20-year old he did the best he could.
 
My opinion isn't exactly hard to grasp, i find it difficult to believe that anyone who has watched Messi play on a consistent basis sinse he broke into the first team at barca and doesn't think he has the potential to be an all time great or can't admit that he is the most talented player around just doesn't have a clue about football. That's my honest opinion.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I don't ingnore them, i take them with a pinch of salt the same way i do all the argentine and Barca legends who bang on about Messi being the best. But when you have your biggest rivals admitting you are the best player in the world that tells me more. When you have respected managers including the England manager that tells you more in my opinion.

"god forbid he gets injured again"

You actually want him to get injured, that's the type of person you are, you can't enjoy the show, it has to be united or nothing for you. You actually will and wish him to be crocked so you can remain in your safe little "messi gets injured" bubble so you can continue to ignore him as a player because only players who play in winning teams and play every game of a season can be considered great players in your eyes. Pathetic

You would rather a potential great is cut down by injuries than reach the heights he can, that says a lot about you as a person and as a "football fan"...
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:lol::lol: This may overtake the Hargreaves/Carrick thread yet Pogue!
 
FranklyVulgar said:
My opinion isn't exactly hard to grasp, i find it difficult to believe that anyone who has watched Messi play on a consistent basis sinse he broke into the first team at barca and doesn't think he has the potential to be an all time great or can't admit that he is the most talented player around just doesn't have a clue about football. That's my honest opinion.
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Well I rate Messi highly although I can accept an opinion that Ronaldo is a better footballer than him. He's certainly more complete and probably fully developed at this stage.

How can anyone not rate Messi is beyond me though, especially with the sort of season he's having at the moment.
 
Cal? said:
The fact remains that Messi needs to at least finish this season strongly to deserve comparison with Ronaldo, god forbid he gets injured again...
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:lol: To deserve fecking comparison... what are you on about

Messi's already won La Liga and we're only in February, he can put his feet up now if he likes. Though I'm sure he'll terrorise some defences in the Champions League too now

I'm with Vulgar. It's like you actually want him to fail, or even get injured. This guy is a genius with the football, he can do things no other player in the game today can, and he's doing it game in, game out. Why can't you just appreciate that rather than take such personal outrage at it, that someone might actually be better than your precious favourite player
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Sweeping statement based on the footballing opinions of a wide range or respected sources. More and more you hear of top coaches and players talk about Messi, not Ronaldo.

Phil you are a United man and i understand your bias, it's a natural bias after all but outside of the world of manchester United it is hard to find anyone who is massively respected that would say that Ronaldo is better, or that he is more likely to go down as an all time great. I'm sorry but that is the truth.
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I am a United man yes and biased yes and also I see Ronaldo live which is very important to make judgments but I have seen a fair number of great players over the years including of course Law Best and Charlton.

For me Best sits alongside Pele and Maradona as the 3 greatest players since the 1958 World Cup. Charlton and Law were really not that far behind alongside a large group of other greats around the world including a few other candidates from United especially Giggs.

Ronaldo might just reach the heights of the top 3 -- I repeat might! I also think Messi might also reach that level ( a judgement reached from TV viewing only).

I obviously read different sources to you because I read mixed opinions about who is best. They certainly have different attributes... The majority seem to favour Ronaldo as the best player in the world last season (some say 2 seasons) being a key member of a very successful side (scoring 42 goals) playing in the most physical league; he also put in some great performances for Portugal. I think his ankle injury handicapped him towards the very end of last season and certainly in the summer and no doubt his form has dipped below that peak where as Messi has been fit, playing fantastically well and probably at this moment is the best.
 
RedPhil1957 said:
I am a United man yes and biased yes and also I see Ronaldo live which is very important to make judgments but I have seen a fair number of great players over the years including of course Law Best and Charlton.

For me Best sits alongside Pele and Maradona as the 3 greatest players since the 1958 World Cup. Charlton and Law were really not that far behind alongside a large group of other greats around the world including a few other candidates from United especially Giggs.

Ronaldo might just reach the heights of the top 3 -- I repeat might! I also think Messi might also reach that level ( a judgement reached from TV viewing only).

I obviously read different sources to you because I read mixed opinions about who is best. They certainly have different attributes... The majority seem to favour Ronaldo as the best player in the world last season (some say 2 seasons) being a key member of a very successful side (scoring 42 goals) playing in the most physical league; he also put in some great performances for Portugal. I think his ankle injury handicapped him towards the very end of last season and certainly in the summer and no doubt his form has dipped below that peak where as Messi has been fit, playing fantastically well and probably at this moment is the best.
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Ronaldo had a great season last season, undesputed and if he didn't win the awards it would have been a farce. He deserved it, he was consistently playing at the highest level and his achievments speak for themselves.

I see where you are coming from, i'm too young to have seen best etc live but my dad tells me that Best was every bit as good as Pele and Maradona, he actually says Best was a better player than them and my Dad is no United fan.

Talking about this moment there really isn't a comparison, it goes Messi > the rest of the world.

That sounds over the top but he's been that good this season, Ronaldo this season hasn't been a top 10 never mind a number 1. His performance against Derby was mostly embarassing and whilst he was played out of position it isn't a performance i would associate with a great player and it isn't the first of that kind this season...
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Cal? has hardly hidden his hatred for Barcelona or Messi for that matter, the idea of anyone being even compared to his beloved Ronaldo is sacrilege let alone people daring to say he is actually better than him, how his blood boils.

Bizarely enough he claims to watch Barcelona and Messi despite them being only behind Liverpool in his list of most hated teams. He hates Barcelona more than Manchester City!? He is a strange one, i dont really believe he watches either Barcelona or Messi, why anyone would choose to watch one of their most hated teams is beyond me. My guess would be he says he does to make it seem like he actually has an opinion on the matter when quite clearly he doesn't.
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Cal hasnt watched either Barcelona or Messi, except one or two matches, and he drags some one liners out of wiki and twists them to score points, it looks funny everytime he tries out an explanation.

He was nice lad but got pissed after having to miss out his favourite player in the premiership as Barcelona signed the bloke last season. If Henry wins the CL with Barca, his life is ruined and has figured out Messi being the biggest stumbling block in his dreams, tries his best to tell the world, he's shite.
 
RedPhil1957 said:
I obviously read different sources to you because I read mixed opinions about who is best. They certainly have different attributes... The majority seem to favour Ronaldo as the best player in the world last season (some say 2 seasons) being a key member of a very successful side (scoring 42 goals) playing in the most physical league; he also put in some great performances for Portugal. I think his ankle injury handicapped him towards the very end of last season and certainly in the summer and no doubt his form has dipped below that peak where as Messi has been fit, playing fantastically well and probably at this moment is the best.
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The reason there being Messi was unfit, frustrating breaks in the midseason, struggling for matchfitness, yet he was the runner up for both FIFA awards and Ballon D'or twice in a row. You must remember he managed to accomplish , inspite of all this baggage with Barcelona winning sod all in the last couple of seasons and Messi's only win was an Olympic gold medal like Kurt Angle. Really sums up how devastating footballer he was whenever whenever he was fit.

Incontrast Ronaldo was fit, charged up after the world cup debacle and walked with all the honours, Five years down the line I dont see anything wrong if some rates, Messi as the greatest of his generation and Ronaldo being the best out of the rest.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Ronaldo had a great season last season, undesputed and if he didn't win the awards it would have been a farce. He deserved it, he was consistently playing at the highest level and his achievments speak for themselves.

I see where you are coming from, i'm too young to have seen best etc live but my dad tells me that Best was every bit as good as Pele and Maradona, he actually says Best was a better player than them and my Dad is no United fan.

Talking about this moment there really isn't a comparison, it goes Messi > the rest of the world.

That sounds over the top but he's been that good this season, Ronaldo this season hasn't been a top 10 never mind a number 1. His performance against Derby was mostly embarassing and whilst he was played out of position it isn't a performance i would associate with a great player and it isn't the first of that kind this season...
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Why would you do that?

Why take such a stupid dig at Ronaldo?

You never learn.
 
Sarni said:
Well I rate Messi highly although I can accept an opinion that Ronaldo is a better footballer than him. He's certainly more complete and probably fully developed at this stage.

How can anyone not rate Messi is beyond me though, especially with the sort of season he's having at the moment.
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Rating Messi and claiming he's the best player in the World since he started playing (as vijay & FV claims) is very different.
 
Brad said:
:lol: To deserve fecking comparison... what are you on about

Messi's already won La Liga and we're only in February, he can put his feet up now if he likes. Though I'm sure he'll terrorise some defences in the Champions League too now

I'm with Vulgar. It's like you actually want him to fail, or even get injured. This guy is a genius with the football, he can do things no other player in the game today can, and he's doing it game in, game out. Why can't you just appreciate that rather than take such personal outrage at it, that someone might actually be better than your precious favourite player
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Are you talking about the La Liga that Ronaldinho won a few years ago or are you assuming they have it all sewn up this season?

Ronaldo can also do plenty of things no other players can (esp Messi)... have you ever seen Messi power in headers like in Rome or Moscow? and I don't mean handballed ones like that youtube clip.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Ronaldo had a great season last season, undesputed and if he didn't win the awards it would have been a farce. He deserved it, he was consistently playing at the highest level and his achievments speak for themselves.

I see where you are coming from, i'm too young to have seen best etc live but my dad tells me that Best was every bit as good as Pele and Maradona, he actually says Best was a better player than them and my Dad is no United fan.

Talking about this moment there really isn't a comparison, it goes Messi > the rest of the world.

That sounds over the top but he's been that good this season, Ronaldo this season hasn't been a top 10 never mind a number 1. His performance against Derby was mostly embarassing and whilst he was played out of position it isn't a performance i would associate with a great player and it isn't the first of that kind this season...
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If you're going to jump to conclusion based on one game, Messi didn't look very clever against Betis when he got subbed on.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Cal? has hardly hidden his hatred for Barcelona or Messi for that matter, the idea of anyone being even compared to his beloved Ronaldo is sacrilege let alone people daring to say he is actually better than him, how his blood boils.

Bizarely enough he claims to watch Barcelona and Messi despite them being only behind Liverpool in his list of most hated teams. He hates Barcelona more than Manchester City!? He is a strange one, i dont really believe he watches either Barcelona or Messi, why anyone would choose to watch one of their most hated teams is beyond me. My guess would be he says he does to make it seem like he actually has an opinion on the matter when quite clearly he doesn't.
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Again, putting words in mu mouth...

I said Barca are 2nd in my list of teams that I don't want to win the CL behind Liverpool - Are Shitty in the CL? :rolleyes:

Also, I watch a lot of games regardless of my preference for the teams as I do so mainly for bettering purposes.
 
vijay said:
Cal hasnt watched either Barcelona or Messi, except one or two matches, and he drags some one liners out of wiki and twists them to score points, it looks funny everytime he tries out an explanation.

He was nice lad but got pissed after having to miss out his favourite player in the premiership as Barcelona signed the bloke last season. If Henry wins the CL with Barca, his life is ruined and has figured out Messi being the biggest stumbling block in his dreams, tries his best to tell the world, he's shite.
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And we have a(nother) winner.
 
Cal? said:
If you're going to jump to conclusion based on one game, Messi didn't look very clever against Betis when he got subbed on.
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30mins, he missed one good chance, created a few openings and helped the team raise their level and come back to earn a point.

Ronaldo has given rubbish performance after rubbish performance this season but he's still the best in the world in your eyes. You criticize Messi for coming off the bench when his team were 2-1 down yet Ronaldo can do no wrong despite an inept performance for 89mins against a championship team. Bravo Cal? keep it up.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
30mins, he missed one good chance, created a few openings and helped the team raise their level and come back to earn a point.

Ronaldo has given rubbish performance after rubbish performance this season but he's still the best in the world in your eyes. You criticize Messi for coming off the bench when his team were 2-1 down yet Ronaldo can do no wrong despite an inept performance for 89mins against a championship team. Bravo Cal? keep it up.
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I think that's a bit over the top. He missed two months of the season and he's still got 15 goals, so he must be doing something right.
 
Storm said:
I think that's a bit over the top. He missed two months of the season and he's still got 15 goals, so he must be doing something right.
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SO he wasn't rubbish against Derby?

I didn't bring Ronaldo into this thread but i watched the Derby match and he was abysmal. i said 89mins because he managed about 1 min of good play, his header.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
SO he wasn't rubbish against Derby?

I didn't bring Ronaldo into this thread but i watched the Derby match and he was abysmal. i said 89mins because he managed about 1 min of good play, his header.
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I thought him and Giggs were involved in a lot of good work together up front. He certainly wasn't abysmal by any means.

I don't want to take this off topic though so I'll leave you to your Messi Vs. Ronaldo argument :p
 
FV, everyone can tell your extraordinary liking towards Messi but you don't be so harsh on Ronalod at the same time. Can't we just leave this argument as saying Ronaldo=Messi in terms of ability/potential.
 
Had some bits of good play, but he was rubbish for his own standards. I can't wait for him to sort his head and get back to delivering best player in the world like performances.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
ROnaldo blindness storm, how anyone couldn't see he was rubbish i'll never ever know. I'm perplexed to be honest and i rarely use the word perplexed.
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Just had a look at the ratings thread and there are a few 6's, a few 7's and even a 5 and an 8 on the first page. The opinion seems quite varied. I'm not saying it was a great game for him, but I thought he did alright up front with Giggs, especially when you consider he was playing in an unfamiliar position. He's capable of much better performances of course, but I think saying he was 'abysmal' is pushing it a bit far.
 
Red Pavan said:
FV, everyone can tell your extraordinary liking towards Messi but you don't be so harsh on Ronalod at the same time. Can't we just leave this argument as saying Ronaldo=Messi in terms of ability/potential.
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After 60 pages i don't think so. It's became a debate and everyone knows i feel in terms of potential/ability Messi is ahead.

IhabX7 said:
Had some bits of good play, but he was rubbish for his own standards. I can't wait for him to sort his head and get back to delivering best player in the world like performances.
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Good to see someone who can admit it, i'm not out to bring Ronaldo down but i'll give an honest opinion on his performance, if he was good i'd say so. He wasn't good, he wasn't close to good and this is against a championship side. Praise to you for at least admitting the truth.
 
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