I'll take the more effective player any day and that means Cristiano Ronaldo, up to now, Ronaldo has shown he has what it takes to win the Premiership and the Champions League. Messi has half a season of ripping apart La Liga, plus the occasion flash of brilliance in past seasons.
Lionel Messi
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I'll take the more effective player any day and that means Cristiano Ronaldo, up to now, Ronaldo has shown he has what it takes to win the Premiership and the Champions League. Messi has half a season of ripping apart La Liga, plus the occasion flash of brilliance in past seasons.
How is it bullshit? You go on and on about how great he played, yet the fact is Real Madrid have the much better recent record in El Clasico and Messi played in all those games.
Also, care to explain Messi's poor record against English sides?
Messi record against Real Madrid
To Cal,
On top of my head...Messi has so far played against Real Madrid only in four matches.
05/06 first leg at Bernabeu...Barcelona won by three goals. Messi was the best player on the pitch inspite of Ronaldinho Eto and a beefed up galatico squad. One poster claimed he did nothing apart from skinning Carlos for fun, another opinion from one line editorials.
Messi was boning them whenever he had the ball at his feet, set up Eto's first goal and also created couple of chances one missed by Gudjohnson and another one by Ronaldinho.
He was injured for the second leg that season which Barca lost 2-4
06/07...Messi didnt play in the first leg but in the second leg at home he scored the hatrick and also dominated against Real.
07/08 ...Messi missed out the first leg with injury and in the away encounter he was shite, just returning from injury, wasn't clearly match fit...Barca as a whole have lost their league title and the match was a mere formality for them.
08/09 ....Inspite of cynical fouling, he played safe and scored the second goal.
It stands P-4 W-2 D-1 L-1
Cannot figure out how you lot can spew the same bullshite, he dosent have a good record against Real Madrid.
To Cal,
On top of my head...Messi has so far played against Real Madrid only in four matches.
05/06 first leg at Bernabeu...Barcelona won by three goals. Messi was the best player on the pitch inspite of Ronaldinho Eto and a beefed up galatico squad. One poster claimed he did nothing apart from skinning Carlos for fun, another opinion from one line editorials.
Messi was boning them whenever he had the ball at his feet, set up Eto's first goal and also created couple of chances one missed by Gudjohnson and another one by Ronaldinho.
He was injured for the second leg that season which Barca lost 2-4
06/07...Messi didnt play in the first leg but in the second leg at home he scored the hatrick and also dominated against Real.
07/08 ...Messi missed out the first leg with injury and in the away encounter he was shite, just returning from injury, wasn't clearly match fit...Barca as a whole have lost their league title and the match was a mere formality for them.
08/09 ....Inspite of cynical fouling, he played safe and scored the second goal.
It stands P-4 W-2 D-1 L-1
Cannot figure out how you lot can spew the same bullshite, he dosent have a good record against Real Madrid.
Ronaldo had a hard season last year, a hard summer and missed pre-season with a foot injury and that has probably had some effect on this season form yet he is still our leading scorer --- just an excuse like yours.
I have only seen Messi on TV not ideal to really judge a player but to say one has more tallent than the other is purely subjective.
Messis record agaisnt English side
Again....
His first match after returning from injury against Liverpool and as expected wasnt able to maintian the foothold
Tore apart Chelsea at SB and was tormeneted them for 20 minutes at Nou Camp before he got subbed with a hamstring strain...
He ran us ragged at home, did everything but couldn't score, as his team mates were shite.
He has played three full matches against English sides and was MOTM in two out of those three.
Cannot figure out how you continue your bolloxing without having a clue on what you're talking about.
Again....
His first match after returning from injury against Liverpool and as expected wasnt able to maintian the foothold
Tore apart Chelsea at SB and was tormeneted them for 20 minutes at Nou Camp before he got subbed with a hamstring strain...
He ran us ragged at home, did everything but couldn't score, as his team mates were shite.
He has played three full matches against English sides and was MOTM in two out of those three.
Cannot figure out how you continue your bolloxing without having a clue on what you're talking about.
08/09 - correct - 1 win
07/08 - correct - 1 loss and missed other
06/07 - He did play and Real won 2-0 http://soccernet.espn.go.com/match?id=203834&cc=3888
3-3 game, true he scored the hat-trick, but considering he rescued the game in the last minute, it looks like Real dominated and not Messi.
05/06 - Considering the Bernabeu fans gave Ronaldinho the standing ovation, I think it's fair to say Ronaldinho was the one dominating the match, or do you presume you know more from TV pictures than they do watching it live?
Btw, the other game was a 1-1 draw which he didn't play.
So - 5 games against Real - 2 wins, 2 defeats & 1 draw.
Cal, i am guessing you are going to give up soon? It's like 1-10 vs 1.
The difference here being the so called one or two substandard performance from Messi all came when he was making a comeback from a midseason injury.
Ronaldo's case was different, he's carried some niggling injuries but was a beast. Unlike Messi he never in the last couple of seasons took breaks for two or three months in the physio room and struggled for match fitness.
I agree but that applies to Ronaldo pre-season after operation.
Also physical athleticism is part of his talent
You conveniently choose to ignore 05/06...
Can you tell me what happened in 06/07 in the first leg at Bernabeu?
I didn't, submitted post before I finished typing.
Hmm... whenever Messi plays badly, it's always the injuries. Whenever Ronaldo plays badly, it's because he's less talented. Go figure...
MotM against us at OT?
I was there watching the game at OT, he was in Park's pocket the whole game.I have seen him live once... United 1-0 Barca CL semi 2nd leg last season.
you also said he ran us ragged at OT last season, I just don't see that not once that I can remember did he go on the outside of Evra and get a cross in he was forced inside everytine where Parke did his job suberbly
vijay also said that Messi "dominated" against Real Madrid in 05/06 when Ronaldinho scored 2 goals at the Bernabeu and got a stading ovation.
Clearly all those Real Madrid fans applauded Ronaldinho just to upset Messi.
Paid about GBP200 and got the ticket from the club's hospitality package thing - one match ticket plus one coupon for fish & chips...
That's just bullshit. Ronaldinho was clearly the best in the world at the time and that was an amazing performance from him, he was the best player no doubt.
Everytime he had ball at his feet I was worried.
Help yourself, and figure out at what point he could've done better, playing for a team lacking shape and all his team mates looking mediocre.
By that logic, Van Persie would be a far superior striker than Rooney ?
Over the last 3 seasons,
Van Persie - 48 league starts, 27 goals
Rooney - 74 league starts, 32 goals
I was bothered seeing him live only when they played against us at home, unfortunately I was on the other side of the Atlantic and couldn't make it.
If we play them again this season, I am at a calling distance.
Mediocre team mates who had 80% possession and gave the ball to the great Messi who could do nothing with it ? Their midfield dominated ours and we couldnt get near them while their attack built around Messi was toothless
Mediocre team mates like Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol who went on to win the Euros ?
One for you lot who continue your bullshitting.
I am getting silly with these youtube shite but you lot are dragged me to that level.
Well, me too, considering a 1-1 would have put us out, I was worried any time any Barca player had the ball.
Anyway, can't believe you've resorted to youtube videos to prove your point, everyone knows that even the most mediocre players have nice youtube compilations.
So he escaped from Park's pocket for that one shot Van der Sar saved, he was still pretty anonymous the whole tie.
The point here being you lot are bullshiting without having seen anything...
Youtube should be more than sufficient for these debates.
I was there at OT and saw the whole match, Henry did more when he came on than Messi managed the whole game.
Mediocre team mates who had 80% possession and gave the ball to the great Messi who could do nothing with it ? Their midfield dominated ours and we couldnt get near them while their attack built around Messi was toothless
Mediocre team mates like Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol who went on to win the Euros ?
Dont try some irrelevant statistical shite again. We decided to sit back and soak up the pressure. Barca for the start didn't play the attack around Messi, and their attackers inspite of passing the ball in their own werent able to penetrate our midfield barring Messi, who tried to take on the match but couldn't score.
If a poster is eligible to talk about a player only from watching him live every other match hardly any of us can meet the criteria to comment about any opposition players postive or NEGATIVE.
Fine to comment but to be so certain ---------- TV gives you a poor view of the overall game
Found a Ronaldo compilation for that match, looks better than Messi's
To be fair neither had a good game...
I watched Bestie probably a couple of hundred times and would always put him as the greatest ever but I know I never saw Maradona live and Pele only once so my judgement is biased and subjective
For the start I never bothered watching the clip, thought it could be sufficient reply to the tide of shite. But once in every three pages you would repeat the same deluded nonsense again....Messi has a poor record agaisnt Real Madrid" or his record against English team is not good and try to convince yourself.
Your bias is unbelievably pathetic.
Even massive Ronaldo fans like the Chief can at least admit that Messi is the more talented. The more i read your drivel and the more you continue to make no sense and turn other posters against you the more i realize it is pointless trying to argue with you. You'll never admit you are wrong. When Messi wins all the awards like Ronaldo (all be it 3 years younger) you wont give him credit, you'll give the credit to Barcelona for winning things, or give it'll be because he plays in La Liga and the bias towards that league is unreal...
Every top Ronaldo fanboy has made excuse after excuse for his sub standard performances this season. Still after 33 games he hasn't fully recovered from the summer...
Yet Messi was totally abysmal against United and that's because he's rubbish, nothing to do with the games against United being his first games in months. Nothing to do with him being rushed back for those games because Barca knew he, the 20 year old argentine was the only way they could beat United given how poor Barca had been all season.
Almost everyone in the world apart from United fans agreed that Messi was better than Ronaldo in those games but that doesn't matter. It only matters when everyone in the world (france football magazine) vote or declare Ronaldo the best.
Cal? the world sees Messi and Ronaldo for what they are, one could go on to be an all time great. The other is a very fine player indeed but not in the same class. You'll probably never see it, or at least you'll never admit it. You've already told of your hatred towards Barca and Messi himself so it is hardly surprising the stance you take, it's pathetic but hardly surprising.
A sweeping statement; "the world sees" .......what a load of crap, I know plenty who would argue for Ronaldo above Messi in my relatively small circle. Personally I think either or both might go on to sit with the very best of all time if I was to be pushed on which is the most likely it would be Ronaldo because I think Messi might be more susceptible to long term injuries.
Sweeping statement based on the footballing opinions of a wide range or respected sources. More and more you hear of top coaches and players talk about Messi, not Ronaldo.
Phil you are a United man and i understand your bias, it's a natural bias after all but outside of the world of manchester United it is hard to find anyone who is massively respected that would say that Ronaldo is better, or that he is more likely to go down as an all time great. I'm sorry but that is the truth.
Talk about changing facts to suit your story - Messi played a number of league games before the United match and was rested the weekend before facing United.
As I've already said, how come you only respect the opinions of those praising Messi? I guess the likes of Best, Figo, Eusebio, Sir Alex all talk out of their ass when they praise Ronaldo.
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