Lionel Messi

[Cal?]

How about Cantona, Zola, Bergkamp etal...rejects from better leagues ending up as some of the greatest players in England and also raised the quality of the league. Carew was rubbish at Valencia does a good job at Villa.

Forlan, Kanoute struggling in the premiership yet delivering in Spain or Hleb being rubbish at Barca yet was good in premiership.

Infact the greatest player ever to play in the premiership the great Thiery Henry was a reject from Juventus and even with reputation and expereince, he struggled to find his foot at Barcelona last season. It can go either way.

I just agreed with you it can go both ways...

Just emphasising the fact the Premiership rejects have done very well in La Liga...

Schmeichel, Keane, Cantona and Ronaldo all have very valid claims to being greater than Henry... but that's for another thread.

 

[Cal?]

Euro 2004, name a better player than him. And that was aged 18.

Cristiano Ronaldo...

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Cal your pathetic anti-Henry bias is, well, pathetic.

Did he root your missus or something?

Are you actually RyansGirl?

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Age shouldn't matter here.

Baros, Ruud, Ronaldo, Nedved to name a few.

Had Rooney stayed away from injuries and carried his form to the knock out stages he would've been the best player in the tourney. Scoring only against the likes of Croatia and Swizterland in group stages does not translate to dominating a tournament.

He showed he had the ability, but far cry from being called the best in that Euros.

Sol Campbell had a fantastic Euro's too, people seem to forget that.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Its what you did in that year - 2008 in Ronnies case!

He's a great player Cesc i'm not denying that - only a fool would. He has to keep his form up for the rest of the year like Ronnie did last year!

Its a fecking shame that we've all been crying out for Ronnie to get lavished with Best Player in the World tag, and when he does - you's lot are all sayin Messi is instead!

You cant call yourself the Best until you get official recognition like Ronnie did. He only got that recognition last month ffs & now you lot are taking it away from him after only 1 month

Regardless, I wouldnt swap Ronnie for Messi - Ronnie's more tools in his locker!

I'm just saying the award is given to reflect the winners efforts in the previous season. This means he was the best player for that period, obviously he can claim it at that moment and even for as long as it takes for someone else to take him over.

In this case it hasn't taken too long. Ronaldo was the best player last season (and actually a while before then too), and he deserved the award (even over Kaka I'd say). Since the end of last year Messi's raised the bar. He's been playing superior football so he's earnt the tag. When he wins the award it will be for his efforts now 'til the end of the year, meaning he's been the best player now 'til the rest of the year.

You're right though, Ronaldo's got a bit more - that being his heading ability. Though Messi just does the rest better (at the moment).

 

[reddevilcanada]

Rooney has hardly been the best player in a trophy winning team or the best player in the league or the best player in a top tournament.....to mention him in the same sentence as other players is premature.

Your preference for a player is irrelevant. Liverpool fans would prefer Carragher over Rio ...does that make Carragher the better defender ?

My preference isn't based on blind fanboyism or irrational hatred towards certain players (like you with English players) but rather on actual merit. Rooney was our best player after Ron and Rio last season and amongst the best the season before. Without Rooney, we wouldn't have won the double last season. Torres on the other hand has hardly been the best player in a trophy winning team, he was quite mediocre in the euros apart from his goal in the final. Ibra leading Inter to Serie A is like Benzema leading Lyon to the French title, there were never any serious contenders to Inter's title challenges. Rooney on the other hand was a vital player in our last two successful campaigns where we won the trophies with very tight margins, when we actually had real challengers on the road to our success.

 

[Cal?]

Cal your pathetic anti-Henry bias is, well, pathetic.

Did he root your missus or something?

Are you actually RyansGirl?

Oh right, because I think Schmeichel, Cantona, Keane & Ronaldo all have claims to have been the best player in the Premiership, I have a pathetic anti-Henry bias?

Here's a wake up call for you, the Premiership does not revolve round Arsenal and your occasion title wins.

 

[Merman]

what's so funny? the fact that he's mentioned an English player? I would have Rooney over Kaka, Torres and Ibra any day.

Come on RDC, a senior poster like you shoudn't fall for a pathetic wind up like that. We all know whats IK like

 

[B20]

Oh right, because I think Schmeichel, Cantona, Keane & Ronaldo all have claims to have been the best player in the Premiership, I have a pathetic anti-Henry bias?

Here's a wake up call for you, the Premiership does not revolve round Arsenal and your occasion title wins.

Yes. Henry is quite clearly better. I'd say the field is limited to Shearer, Henry and Keane for that discussion. Cantona has always been perfectly overrated by your lot.

 

[Cal?]

Yes. Henry is quite clearly better. I'd say the field is limited to Shearer, Henry and Keane for that discussion. Cantona has always been perfectly overrated by your lot.

The Scouse-Goon love in again?

Cantona won the Premiership (& Div 1 before it) every season he completed, if that's not dominating the league, I don't know what is.

You can argue the level of the Premiership back then wasn't as competitive, but that doesn't change the fact that Cantona completely dominated the league.

Schmeichel is perhaps one of the only ever in the Premiership who has a place in an all time XI (Ronaldo may do in the future).

Ronaldo has already won as much as Henry in the Premiership and also won the Champs League. You can argue Henry has a better overall record, but Ronaldo 07/08 was better than Henry ever was.

Hence, they all have very valid claims to have been the best player in the Premiership.

 

[Instant Karma]

Rooney was our best player after Ron and Rio last season and amongst the best the season before. Without Rooney, we wouldn't have won the double last season.

Tevez and Ronaldo scored the most vital goals to win us games that we would have dropped points in. Rooney couldnt even make the Premiership team of the year when many of our other players did. How was he our third best player ? Wonder why the other players and managers didnt overrate his performance last season like some of our fans do ...perhaps they know something about football ?

Evra has been the best left back in the league, Rio & Vidic have the been the best defenders in the league. Rooney has never been the best striker in the league.

Rooney being called a great player already is like Yao Ming being an all star - massively overrated in one country.

 

[reddevilcanada]

Tevez and Ronaldo scored the most vital goals to win us games that we would have dropped points in. Rooney couldnt even make the Premiership team of the year when many of our other players did. How was he our third best player ? Wonder why the other players and managers didnt overrate his performance last season like some of our fans do ...perhaps they know something about football ?

Evra has been the best left back in the league, Rio & Vidic have the been the best defenders in the league. Rooney has never been the best striker in the league.

Rooney being called a great player already is like Yao Ming being an all star - massively overrated in one country.

lol, I like how you completely ignored the comparison with Torres and Ibra who you believe are great players because of what they've won whereas Rooney isn't even though what Rooney has accomplished for us in the past two seasons is at least on par with the titles Ibra has won Inter in a league where there were never any challengers or Torres who was quite mediocre in the Spanish triumph at the euros.

Btw, being in the PFA team of the year doesn't necessarily make someone great. Gerrard shouldn't have been anywhere in that team in 06/07 yet he was. Last season Evra wasn't in the team of the year either despite being the best LB in the world, I guess that means he didn't have a great last season there either eh? Bringing up these shitty arguments for belittling Rooney's importance to the team really make you look like a tit. Rooney's game and contribution to our success has been more than just scoring goals, only a muppet would argue otherwise. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised at your opinion of Rooney knowing you've previously rated him as being on par with Heskey.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Tevez and Ronaldo scored the most vital goals to win us games that we would have dropped points in. Rooney couldnt even make the Premiership team of the year when many of our other players did. How was he our third best player ? Wonder why the other players and managers didnt overrate his performance last season like some of our fans do ...perhaps they know something about football ?

Evra has been the best left back in the league, Rio & Vidic have the been the best defenders in the league. Rooney has never been the best striker in the league.

Rooney being called a great player already is like Yao Ming being an all star - massively overrated in one country.

But your favourite player is Rooney.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Oh right, because I think Schmeichel, Cantona, Keane & Ronaldo all have claims to have been the best player in the Premiership, I have a pathetic anti-Henry bias?

Here's a wake up call for you, the Premiership does not revolve round Arsenal and your occasion title wins.

you fecking plank. I didn't say anything about those players or how Henry's rated amongst/higher than them. But once again your fanboii e-hardness took over.

I just said your bias is pathetic. Because it is, but then again I've come to realise it's probably you that's the pathetic one.

Oh, and I realise it doesn't. Which is probably why I've started threads like this one.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

The Scouse-Goon love in again?

Cantona won the Premiership (& Div 1 before it) every season he completed, if that's not dominating the league, I don't know what is.

You can argue the level of the Premiership back then wasn't as competitive, but that doesn't change the fact that Cantona completely dominated the league.

Schmeichel is perhaps one of the only ever in the Premiership who has a place in an all time XI (Ronaldo may do in the future).

Ronaldo has already won as much as Henry in the Premiership and also won the Champs League. You can argue Henry has a better overall record, but Ronaldo 07/08 was better than Henry ever was.

Hence, they all have very valid claims to have been the best player in the Premiership.

Once again you fecking mix TEAM success with INDIVIDUAL ability.

You're so god damn persistently thick it's amazing. Please get the feck out of my thread. Start your own if you want to prattle on and try to prove to everyone you're a bigger e-fan than them or argue with every single person on here.

It's ALWAYS you verse everyone else. Have you noticed the common denominator in all this? YOU.

 

[Cal?]

Once again you fecking mix TEAM success with INDIVIDUAL ability.

You're so god damn persistently thick it's amazing. Please get the feck out of my thread. Start your own if you want to prattle on and try to prove to everyone you're a bigger e-fan than them or argue with every single person on here.

It's ALWAYS you verse everyone else. Have you noticed the common denominator in all this? YOU.

Right, so all the United players ever won things because we had a good team whereas Henry won things for Arsenal all on his own, Vieira, Pires & co played no part.

 

[Wibble]

as i said before, i don't think it's possible to compare both players, they are like pele and maradona, they are both great footballers with different skills

and i want any of them -or both, of course- in my team

i thank god that messi is an argie, but that doesn't mean i wouldn't be as pleased if ronaldo was one too

Agreed. It gets a bit silly when you have people getting all heated about things like who was better Best/Maradonna/Pele.

I have my opinion that Best was probably the most talented but pissed it away, Pele did it all and Maradona was almost as good if only his other foot had been for anything other than preventing him falling over. But in the end it is all hypothetical. You would have any one of them at their peak at the drop of a hat.

Likewise Messi and Ronaldo. You would kill to have one or both in your team. IMO (and that is all it is) Ronaldo is currently the better player and more effective, largely based on last years brilliance. so at the moment Ronaldo is probably worth more than Messi. Messi is however packed with talent and will probably win World Player of the year before too long when you could possibly argue the opposite.

 

[vijay]

Agreed. It gets a bit silly when you have people getting all heated about things like who was better Best/Maradonna/Pele.

I have my opinion that Best was probably the most talented but pissed it away, Pele did it all and Maradona was almost as good if only his other foot had been for anything other than preventing him falling over. But in the end it is all hypothetical. You would have any one of them at their peak at the drop of a hat.

Likewise Messi and Ronaldo. You would kill to have one or both in your team. IMO (and that is all it is) Ronaldo is currently the better player and more effective, largely based on last years brilliance. so at the moment Ronaldo is probably worth more than Messi. Messi is however packed with talent and will probably win World Player of the year before too long when you could possibly argue the opposite.

Best was most talented of all, would've been regarded as the greatest ever had he not blown everything in the tiolet, lack of international football didnt help in adding much to his reputation either. As for your Maradona's analysis on his right foot, I am sure you've deduced it based on few world cup matches, he can use his right foot effectively, set up and scored few goals with his right more than just to prevent from falling over, just try your luck in youtube.

How can Ronaldo can be rated a better Messi currently based on last years brilliance.? and last year should correspond only to first half of last year, when Ronaldo was better? But you've posted the same content atleast five or six times in this thread.

 

[Cal?]

How can Ronaldo can be rated a better Messi currently based on last years brilliance.? and last year should correspond only to first half of last year, when Ronaldo was better? But you've posted the same content atleast five or six times in this thread.

Because you can't fairly judge a player over a few games or even a few months (which is what you seem to want to do for Messi).

 

[vijay]

Because you can't fairly judge a player over a few games or even a few months (which is what you seem to want to do for Messi).

Its not few games, either...Messi was brilliant in the first half of 08 before he got injured against Celtic. In the second half of the season he missed out with injuries...but whenever he was match fit he was in his own league.

Prior to the start of this season, starting from Euros or Olympics, Messi has been head and shoulders above any one else in the world that corresponds to a duration eight months. Reckon this timeframe should be more than sufficient to guage whether he's the best player in the world currently.

 

[Cal?]

Its not few games, either...Messi was brilliant in the first half of 08 before he got injured against Celtic. In the second half of the season he missed out with injuries...but whenever he was match fit he was in his own league.

Prior to the start of this season, starting from Euros or Olympics, Messi has been head and shoulders above any one else in the world that corresponds to a duration eight months. Reckon this timeframe should be more than sufficient to guage whether he's the best player in the world currently.

We will only go round in circles, but here you go...

In the first half of 2008, Messi played 13 league games and scored a grand total of 2 goals (1 against bottm side Levante, the other a penalty), he was also anonymous in the CL against us. Whilst you could go on about his other contributions and whatever, but "brilliant" is certainly not the terms I'd use to describe Messi (1st half 2008).

Messi is not European, how could he be "head and shoulders above anyone" starting from the Euros? If I'm not mistaken, he was on holiday...

He has certainly improved a lot this season (the Spanish season kicked off on 31 Aug), so he's performed at his current level for approximately 5 and a half months. He has been good during those 5 months, but I don't think that's enough to call him the "best player in the world", come the end of the season, perhaps he'd be there.

 

[Brwned]

We will only go round in circles, but here you go...

In the first half of 2008, Messi played 13 league games and scored a grand total of 2 goals (1 against bottm side Levante, the other a penalty), he was also anonymous in the CL against us. Whilst you could go on about his other contributions and whatever, but "brilliant" is certainly not the terms I'd use to describe Messi (1st half 2008).

Messi is not European, how could he be "head and shoulders above anyone" starting from the Euros? If I'm not mistaken, he was on holiday...

He has certainly improved a lot this season (the Spanish season kicked off on 31 Aug), so he's performed at his current level for approximately 5 and a half months. He has been good during those 5 months, but I don't think that's enough to call him the "best player in the world", come the end of the season, perhaps he'd be there.

If he wasn't that great last season, how did he come second in the WPOTY awards?

 

[Cal?]

If he wasn't that great last season, how did he come second in the WPOTY awards?

That reflects the Serie A/La Liga bias in the voting, and the fact that no one really had a good season in those leagues.

 

[Brwned]

That reflects the Serie A/La Liga bias in the voting, and the fact that no one really had a good season in those leagues.

Xavi/David Villa?

Oh, and the awards are biased to the Euro's and World Cup's too, so that's another reason David Villa would've been in there if it was anything to do with bias.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Right, so all the United players ever won things because we had a good team whereas Henry won things for Arsenal all on his own, Vieira, Pires & co played no part.

For christ's sake, show me where I said anything resembling those sentiments. Better yet, show me ANYTHING I said that even suggests that.

You read far too much into this, here's a tip: When I say you're a idiot it generally means you're an idiot, not that I like to eat soup on sundays.

You plank, I laugh at you.

 

[kouroux]

That reflects the Serie A/La Liga bias in the voting, and the fact that no one really had a good season in those leagues.

So Ronaldo wins the Ballon d'Or the season where no one really had a good season ? I'm just using your logic

 

[Cal?]

Xavi/David Villa?

Oh, and the awards are biased to the Euro's and World Cup's too, so that's another reason David Villa would've been in there if it was anything to do with bias.

Xavi was involved in the same crappy season for Barca that Messi was, taking them to 3rd place in a 2 horse La Liga race really is quite an achievement.

Villa was injured more often than Messi and Valencia finished 10th, I'm sure you'd agree that's nothing to write home about.

Torres made it to 3rd place on the back of his Euro final goals.

Actually, let me clarify a little, the so called La Liga bias is more a Real/Barca bias, it's not like other clubs in Spain stand any chance.

 

[Brwned]

Xavi was involved in the same crappy season for Barca that Messi was, taking them to 3rd place in a 2 horse La Liga race really is quite an achievement.

Villa was injured more often than Messi and Valencia finished 10th, I'm sure you'd agree that's nothing to write home about.

Torres made it to 3rd place on the back of his Euro final goals.

Actually, let me clarify a little, the so called La Liga bias is more a Real/Barca bias, it's not like other clubs in Spain stand any chance.

Xavi was brilliant last season, stop talking about team achievements.

Messi was brilliant last season too, and got into 2nd on merit.

 

[Cal?]

For christ's sake, show me where I said anything resembling those sentiments. Better yet, show me ANYTHING I said that even suggests that.

You read far too much into this, here's a tip: When I say you're a idiot it generally means you're an idiot, not that I like to eat soup on sundays.

You plank, I laugh at you.

Once again you fecking mix TEAM success with INDIVIDUAL ability.

You're so god damn persistently thick it's amazing. Please get the feck out of my thread. Start your own if you want to prattle on and try to prove to everyone you're a bigger e-fan than them or argue with every single person on here.

It's ALWAYS you verse everyone else. Have you noticed the common denominator in all this? YOU.

In the above post, you accused me of mixing United's success with the individual ability of the likes of Schmeichel, Cantona & Ronaldo.

You clearly also implied that Henry's success has little to do with his team.

As I said earlier, the Premier League does not revolve around Arsenal or your occasional wins.

 

[Cal?]

So Ronaldo wins the Ballon d'Or the season where no one really had a good season ? I'm just using your logic

Ronaldo (and the Premier League in general) was so far ahead of the rest last season that it's true no one in La Liga or Serie A had a good season.

 

[Cal?]

Xavi was brilliant last season, stop talking about team achievements.

Messi was brilliant last season too, and got into 2nd on merit.

2 "brilliant" players and yet Barca finished 10pts behind those giants Villarreal. I see...

As I've already pointed out, Messi's record last season was anything but "brilliant".

 

[kouroux]

The Premier league in general ? Only 2 or 3 teams I'd say

 

[cesc's_mullet]

In the above post, you accused me of mixing United's success with the individual ability of the likes of Schmeichel, Cantona & Ronaldo.

You clearly also implied that Henry's success has little to do with his team.

As I said earlier, the Premier League does not revolve around Arsenal or your occasional wins.

Bahahahaha.

No.

What I said was you, once again, have confused a teams success with individual ability. Like you have so many times before.

For example, you'll say so and so is a better player because he's won more. Clearly confusing the fact that the TEAM wins the trophies, there's 10 other players out on the pitch and a dozen more in the squad.
Just because a CLUB wins something it doesn't mean a player that's involved is somehow 'better.'

So, I'll say again:

For christ's sake, show me where I said anything resembling those sentiments. Better yet, show me ANYTHING I said that even suggests that.

You read far too much into this, here's a tip: When I say you're a idiot it generally means you're an idiot, not that I like to eat soup on sundays.

You plank, I laugh at you.

 

[Cal?]

Bahahahaha.

No.

What I said was you, once again, have confused a teams success with individual ability. Like you have so many times before.

For example, you'll say so and so is a better player because he's won more. Clearly confusing the fact that the TEAM wins the trophies, there's 10 other players out on the pitch and a dozen more in the squad.
Just because a CLUB wins something it doesn't mean a player that's involved is somehow 'better.'

So, I'll say again:

What's so hard for you to understand?

Better players -> better team -> more chance of success

I guess I should not expect Arsenal fans to grasp this kind of simple logic - afterall you lot seem to think Henry was the sole reason for you ever winning anything yet it's ALWAYS everyone elses fault when Arsenal choke in Europe.

 

[Cal?]

The Premier league in general ? Only 2 or 3 teams I'd say

Well, considering only a handful get the chance to compete with their Italian & Spanish counterparts, it's kind of difficult to compare Derby to Levante and we'd have to make do with United v Real Madrid.

 

[kouroux]

It's a big simplification

 

[Spoony]

bellends.

 

[Cal?]

It's a big simplification

Unless Uefa start organising a Uefa Rubbish Teams League and invite the bottom sides of the Prem, La Liga, etc etc into it, there really isn't a way to compare the bottom sides.

We just have to make do with comparing the top sides.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

What's so hard for you to understand?

Better players -> better team -> more chance of success

I guess I should not expect Arsenal fans to grasp this kind of simple logic - afterall you lot seem to think Henry was the sole reason for you ever winning anything yet it's ALWAYS everyone elses fault when Arsenal choke in Europe.

The fecking irony.

Firstly, where has ANYONE ever said that Henry was the sole reason why we won things? Show me ONE example or ANY Gooner EVER saying this. Now. Clearly we had a fantastic TEAM which was why we won the things we did.

Notice the word TEAM.

Here's another example, I'll try and explain it real nice and slow for you because you're clearly lacking in the all-round general mental capacity stakes:

- Darren Flectcher, that's a player in your squad, right, has 'won' the Champions League. Fernando Torres hasn't. This, by your loon-logic, means Darren Fletcher (that's your player, in case you're not following) is better.

Are you mentally challenged or something? Seriously, do you even comprehend what you write?

I honestly pity you.

Oh, and as 'I've said before:' the world doesn't revolve around your fanboii obsession with CR7.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Has anybody watched that little guy who plays for Barcelona, looks a bit like a transsexual Hobbit.

He is pretty good at that football thing, remember it was me who told you.