Lionel Messi

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Cal? said:
When did I say the winning team have the best players?
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You just about said that unless Messi wins the league and CL, he won't be better than Ronaldo.

Even if you didn't say it outright, it's a still a fitting 'shorter' of your general post history of banging on about trophies making the player. It's like you're caricaturing yourself the way you keep on with it.
 
Cal? said:
No, it's the likes of you who hold your opinions as "facts" who try to act like you're above everyone.

How it was a fact that Henry was the best player in the World, how it's a fact that Messi si the best player in the World, yada yada.

I've always said that everyone is entitled to their opinion, in fact, I just did that in the very post you quoted! :rolleyes:

The relevance of the remark is that the football world recgonises Ronaldo as the best player in the world, Messi could win those awards next year, but as of now, there is every justification to call Ronaldo THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD!!
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:lol:

Messi is playing as the best player in the World. He is playing the best brand of Football as an individual, hence he's the best player in the world.

Ronaldo won the award as a reflection of his efforts in 2008. Which means he was the best player for 2008 (and before, really). Since then/at the back end-of, Messi has raised the bar.

When he wins the award it will be in recognition of the fact he is the best player in the world CURRENTLY.
 
vijay said:
Ronaldinho even in his pomp never attracted comments that compared him was past greats
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Yes he did. Not maradona and pele, but certainly he was talked of potentially joining the second-tier below those two.
 
Cal? said:
Trophies are not the only way to measure players, but it certainly plays a big part.

If he's injured for the CL final and they lose, I'd be delighted, as long as it's not against Liverpool.
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Staggering comment. Ability, mentality and skill are the determinants of a player's footballing prowess, nothing more.
 
So according to Cal, Messi is only half a season behind Ronaldo then. Well since he is 2 years younger I think I won't be too surprise if he can surpass Ronaldo soon. (given the current form of Ronaldo, that is)
 
cesc's_mullet said:
:lol:

Messi is playing as the best player in the World. He is playing the best brand of Football as an individual, hence he's the best player in the world.

Ronaldo won the award as a reflection of his efforts in 2008. Which means he was the best player for 2008 (and before, really). Since then/at the back end-of, Messi has raised the bar.

When he wins the award it will be in recognition of the fact he is the best player in the world CURRENTLY.
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Best brand of football? What the feck is that even supposed to mean? Most pleasing on the eye?

I've said time and again that I think Roanldo (at his best) is the most effective player in the World, Messi may have more flair.

So you think Messi has raised the bar, I just think he's matched Ronaldo's form of last season and there is every doubt about whether he can maintain it right till the end like Ronaldo did, we'll see in a few months.
 
Cal? said:
Best brand of football? What the feck is that even supposed to mean? Most pleasing on the eye?

I've said time and again that I think Roanldo (at his best) is the most effective player in the World, Messi may have more flair.

So you think Messi has raised the bar, I just think he's matched Ronaldo's form of last season and there is every doubt about whether he can maintain it right till the end like Ronaldo did, we'll see in a few months.
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25 goals and 13 assists in 30 games. Everytime you spout your shit he scores again so keep it up numpty.
 
Cal? said:
Trophies are not the only way to measure players, but it certainly plays a big part.

If he's injured for the CL final and they lose, I'd be delighted, as long as it's not against Liverpool.
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Why?
 
KingEric7 said:
Staggering comment. Ability, mentality and skill are the determinants of a player's footballing prowess, nothing more.
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You don't think the players who are rated amongst the best players in history are always the ones who have won loads of trophies?

Do you think it's a coincidence?

Cruyff could well have been rated alongside Pele & Maradona if the Dutch won that final in 74. Henry never won World footballer of the Year mainly due to his failure to win the CL. There are so many examples...
 
B9 from YAWN said:
Yes he did. Not maradona and pele, but certainly he was talked of potentially joining the second-tier below those two.
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For the start Ronaldinho was never talked on par with Zidane, Zico, Rivelinho, Romario, Ronaldo or Basten but certainly a better footballer than Rivaldo, Figo, Henry and others.

The comparison with Maradona were made by both Capello and Hitzfeld after he tore apart both Juventus and Bayern in the preseason. For any budding Argentine footballer, drawing a comparision with Maradona and overrating him is nothing new, from the media perspective but in Messi's case even top notch managers never ducked away from praising him.
 
GAngel said:
25 goals and 13 assists in 30 games. Everytime you spout your shit he scores again so keep it up numpty.
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Ronaldo also had 25 goals from our first 30 games last season. :rolleyes:

Note to GAngel, check facts before sprouting crap.
 
Cal? said:
Ronaldo also had 25 goals from our first 30 games last season. :rolleyes:

Note to GAngel, check facts before sprouting crap.
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Note to idiot: clearly you've missed the point as you have with most every other post in the thread.
 
Brwned said:
Why?
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1. Because I don't like Barca as a club, their holier than thou attitude
2. I do not want another club to join the "won the CL 3 times or more club"
3. I'm fed up with the Messi wankfest

They're 2nd in my "Least want to see them win the CL list" right behind the Scousers.
 
Cal? said:
You don't think the players who are rated amongst the best players in history are always the ones who have won loads of trophies?

Do you think it's a coincidence?

Cruyff could well have been rated alongside Pele & Maradona if the Dutch won that final in 74. Henry never won World footballer of the Year mainly due to his failure to win the CL. There are so many examples...
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That is because they have played in excellent teams. Zico and Cruyff were not worse as individuals for having not won the World Cup.
 
Cal? said:
1. Because I don't like Barca as a club, their holier than thou attitude
2. I do not want another club to join the "won the CL 3 times or more club"
3. I'm fed up with the Messi wankfest

They're 2nd in my "Least want to see them win the CL list" right behind the Scousers.
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Barca are a club who are bigger and as prestigious as United, like it or not. Messi is a great player, already at a level Ronaldo or any other contemporary footballer might never reach.

I perfectly agree with your second point.
 
Cal? said:
1. Because I don't like Barca as a club, their holier than thou attitude
2. I do not want another club to join the "won the CL 3 times or more club"
3. I'm fed up with the Messi wankfest

They're 2nd in my "Least want to see them win the CL list" right behind the Scousers.
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They reflect us in so many ways I feel.

Really couldn't care less about who wins the Champions League if it's not us or Liverpool.

But if Barcelona won the Champions League it'd show you can still win the Champions League without playing defensive football, which is always a good thing I feel. The same if Arsenal won it.

Neither have a good enough defence so inevitably will have to do it playing good football.
 
vijay said:
Barca are a club who are bigger and as prestigious as United, like it or not. Messi is a great player, already at a level Ronaldo or any other contemporary footballer might never reach.

I perfectly agree with your second point.
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Are you trying to say Barca are a bigger club than united?:wenger:
 
As a spectacle?

I'm saying that purely because there's cheaters there, nothing to do with their styles.
 
KingEric7 said:
That is because they have played in excellent teams. Zico and Cruyff were not worse as individuals for having not won the World Cup.
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Don't you think they'd be rated more highly if they did win the World Cup?
 
vijay said:
Barca are a club who are bigger and as prestigious as United, like it or not. Messi is a great player, already at a level Ronaldo or any other contemporary footballer might never reach.

I perfectly agree with your second point.
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How are Barca a bigger club than United?

Fewer fans, fewer trophies and a bigger stadium...

I'm not going to argue with you over Messi again, it's getting very tedious.
 
Dippersripper said:
I'm not a big fan of their football. I hate the diving antics. I hate the way players are overrated in la liga compared to our players.
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Genoa's match against Napoli this season had the most diving in a match I'd ever seen.

Couldn't it be that players in La Liga are underrated by you, rather than overrated by the rest?
 
On a side note that tune in that Argie v France video is pretty damn handy.
 
GAngel said:
Except for the considerable corruption, racism and violence that has plagued every season for the past decade i'd agree with you.
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Racism is not unknown to la liga, just ask Etoo. As for the corruption, Real Madrid play in La Liga.
 
Cal? said:
How are Barca a bigger club than United?

Fewer fans, fewer trophies and a bigger stadium...

I'm not going to argue with you over Messi again, it's getting very tedious.
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Well then stop talking crap about Ronaldo in this thread about Messi, and just don't bother with this thread altogether if you can't have a reasonable debate about Messi without bringing up trophies or Ronaldo.

Equally as tedious.
 
Dippersripper said:
I'd be delighted too. If its not united, I'd prefer an Italian club or even Chelsea to win it.
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Agreed, given a choice of Juve or Barca to join the "won 3 CLs or more club", I'd go with Juve. At least they've some genuinely likeable players like Del Piero, Nedved & Buffon.

Barca on the other hand... :nono:
 
Brwned said:
Well then stop talking crap about Ronaldo in this thread about Messi, and just don't bother with this thread altogether if you can't have a reasonable debate about Messi without bringing up trophies or Ronaldo.

Equally as tedious.
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The rest of you are just about bearable, it's only Vijay with his Messi at 18 was already better than Ronaldinho 04/05 view that's getting on my nerve.
 
Dippersripper said:
Racism is not unknown to la liga, just ask Etoo. As for the corruption, Real Madrid play in La Liga.
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Where did i mention la liga?

I'm specifically talking about italian football which you've clearly never seen on anything but tv. The stadiums are half full because its not a place you take your family.

More rubbish coming from a rubbish poster :rolleyes:.
 
Cal? said:
Agreed, given a choice of Juve or Barca to join the "won 3 CLs or more club", I'd go with Juve. At least they've some genuinely likeable players like Del Piero, Nedved & Buffon.

Barca on the other hand... :nono:
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What's wrong with Xavi, Iniesta or Bojan?

All supposedly very nice people.
 
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