Not at all. You just have to play for Barca or Real and you'll be shortlisted by default for all the awards and automatically a world class player. Even our own fans tend to underrate United players compared to theirs.
Lionel Messi
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Not at all. You just have to play for Barca or Real and you'll be shortlisted by default for all the awards and automatically a world class player. Even our own fans tend to underrate United players compared to theirs.
Are you trying to say Barca are a bigger club than united?
Yes...Both United and Barca have legacy that are on par with each other. But they get puffed up more as the insurgent face of Spain taking on Real Madrid, a more attractive destination for footballers and some other facets which we clearly lag behind. United always had the global fan base after Munich crash but it got translated in to United being the biggest supported club in the world only after our second CL win.
It's what Vijay does, I think he just wants to be exaggerative to make a point.
I don't know if you're winding me up here!
Would Matt Le Tissier have had a higher level of ability had Southhampton won something of significance? Yes or no?
Barca are not bigger than United. FACHT.
In what way should they be bigger? Fan base? Trophies? Prestige? Fame?
Nothing, just that Barca have quite a few players I dislike, Henry being one of them.
They're a more attractive destination mainly due to the weather, all hail global warming!
Now that we have our 3RD CL win, United are undoubtedly bigger than Barca.
He's made his point and I've made mine. I'm going to ignore him regarding Messi from now on.
I respect your opinion, but I have a question for you. I remember you saying that UEFA Cup was better than the European Cup in the 70s and 80s. Has that anything to do with none of the Spanish teams winning it during that period?
I don't know if you're winding me up here!
Would Matt Le Tissier have had a higher level of ability had Southhampton won something of significance? Yes or no?
How can you just judge a player's ability on TV? Trophies, scoring record are excellent indicators of ability.
What don't you like about him?
Its can swing away on either side based on the attendances, global fan base, trophies or prestige, number of season ticket holders etc.vBut we need to dig out the age old topic, what really defines a big club...
Biggest clubs in Europe
Real Madrid
Barcelona
United
Liverpool
Inter
Milan
Juventus
Bayern
Benefica
Ajax.
may be Marseille along with some eastern european clubs before they split. But not sure we can be rated uninanimously as the biggest out of these lot.
His arrogance and his L'arse past.
Spanish teams were not that good, Serie A were the top dogs then. League football in the 80's was rated higher than the European cups with the world cups being the standard benchmark to rate the best player in the world. The competition in the UEFA cup was more intense.
O'Shea has just as good a trophy record, and has scored more goals than Rio Ferdinand, is he a better defender?
Yes or no?!
Yes, if Le Tissier had won a trophy with Soton, it would mean he was a better player than the one who played.
Again, I said it's an indication, not the only factor.
Anyone could see Rio is much more important to United than O'Shea. But you cannot argue Messi has been more important to Barca than Ronaldo to United.
I see Ronaldo as confidence personified.
Anyway, we all have our favourites, Ronaldo is my favourite player at present.
Henry is very high up on my disliked list, only below the likes of Fowler and Keown...
Barcelona is a club of the past.
Also how you figure attendances when we have a full house playing hull and they have 35 thousand less than their full house playing every other team except Valencia Real and other clubs in that level?
Also finances, marketing, players are to be taken into account and we by far are better then Barca in that area.
Team success has nothing to do with the individual. Because a team isn't good enough to have the ultimate success doesn't reflect on any player as an individual, and it certainly doesn't diminish their individual abilities.
Get it fecking right.
Get it fecking right.
So I guess this means Aliadiere is one of the best players in the world because he was a part of our unbeaten season. Something which will be nigh-on impossible for another team to replecate.
He was there, he played for us thus he's the best everz.
He was there, he played for us thus he's the best everz.
You can though, and you can do with with stats just like you seem to measure people on.
The stat that Messi score 3 goals per game with Messi and under 1 goal per game without him him, or whatever it is, being one of them.
I doubt Ronaldo has a similar record.
Messi provides the finishing touches and makes them tick.
Ronaldo provides the finishing touches, Rooney makes us tick.
Key difference.
Those clubs have their own TV deal, fans prefer to watch them from home rather visiting the staidum every week. Europe has as 9 or 10 big clubs, and the biggest club currently is a relative definition based on the instant success a club enjoys over a period of time.
They dominated every aspect and factor of being a big club in the past. Now they do not. They weren't such a big success from the 90's on.
That is not the case with this Barca team though, it is not like Maradona with Napoli. Messi is possibly playing alongside the best striker in the world and two of the best MFs in the world. Best RB as well, IMO. As a team they have no excuses of not winning the league and even the CL. If they fail, it will count against them as a team and individually as well.
The 90s and 00s are probably their most succesful period ever. Four titles in a row and a european cup with cruyf. back to back titles with Van gaal. Same with rijkjard and another european cup added. On course for a third title in the 00s now.
About half their total major trophy haul has been won the past two decades.
They did not even win the EC till the 90's...
Barcelona will slowly start to rescind their start of season form.
Ronaldo is world class, he proved it over the last 2 or 3 seasons, he won everything with United and deserved it but football moves fast and Ronaldo so far this season hasn't been close to being Uniteds best player or the best player in the Prem or Europe.
THis season Messi has been head and shoulders above everyone else. To argue he hasn't is blindness, to argue that him doing it over half a season means he isn't the best player currently is madness.
When you take his form right now, the fact he is the most talented player in the world and his statistical record this season it is farcical to say that this season Messi has been anything but head and shoulders above the rest.
Basically Cal? hates Barcelona so for that reason alone i assume he doesn't watch them. So without watching the team the best player plays for it is very difficult to form an accurate opinion of a player. I mean if you don't see him perform then how can you justify your opinion?
Unless Cal? is so sadistic that he enjoys the pain of watching the team he hates only second to Liverpool playing such fantastic football it is pretty safe to say he shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on the matter.
THis season Messi has been head and shoulders above everyone else. To argue he hasn't is blindness, to argue that him doing it over half a season means he isn't the best player currently is madness.
When you take his form right now, the fact he is the most talented player in the world and his statistical record this season it is farcical to say that this season Messi has been anything but head and shoulders above the rest.
Basically Cal? hates Barcelona so for that reason alone i assume he doesn't watch them. So without watching the team the best player plays for it is very difficult to form an accurate opinion of a player. I mean if you don't see him perform then how can you justify your opinion?
Unless Cal? is so sadistic that he enjoys the pain of watching the team he hates only second to Liverpool playing such fantastic football it is pretty safe to say he shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on the matter.
You never answered me before about that, how they'd fall off the pace this season.
Where do you think they'll finish in the league, and how many points behind/ahead Madrid, in the Copa Del Rey and the Champions League?
I don't see Barca as big a club as Real or United in terms of success. Ronaldinho made them a team again and without him they never would have been able to attract anyone else. They were even losing their best players to Real which is the same as Manchester United losing players to Liverpool.
The fact is that without Ronaldinho Barcelona would have continued to be just a club with a bit of history. Bit like Everton.
And I actually meant 00's.
Does the fact that Messi is a stand out amongst (in your opinion) the best striker in the world and two of the best midfielders in the world not say more about how good Messi is?
The CL is an extremely difficult competition to win. Does the best team in the Europe always win the CL? no, there are many factors involved in winning it and it's never easy to predict.
They will win La Liga and possibly the domestic cup. They have a good chance at the CL and quite a few people are already saying they will fail. Wishful thinking but not that unlikely in honesty but at this stage i would only be confident of Barcelona, Bayern and Villarreal making the next round. The rest are very difficult to predict and that is the nature of this competition.
They will have a bad run and possibly blow their lead. They haven't got the experience of a winning team. Madrid will beat them at the Bernabeu. They will probably make the Semis of the UCL. Maybe win the Copa del Rey and expect Messi to be injured.
Domestic competitions
La Liga
* Winners (18): 1929, 1945, 1948, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1959, 1960, 1974, 1985, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2005, 2006
* Runners-up (22): 1930, 1946, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1962, 1964, 1967, 1968, 1971, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1982, 1986, 1987, 1989, 1997, 2000, 2004, 2007
Copa del Rey (record)
* Winners (24): 1910, 1912, 1913, 1920, 1922, 1925, 1926, 1928, 1942, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1957, 1959, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1978, 1981, 1983, 1988, 1990, 1997, 1998
* Runners-up (9): 1902, 1919, 1932, 1936, 1954, 1974, 1984, 1986, 1996
Supercopa de España
* Winners (7): 1983, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996, 2005, 2006
* Runners-up (7): 1985, 1988, 1990, 1993, 1997, 1998, 1999
Copa de la Liga (record)
* Winners (2): 1983–83, 1986–86
[edit] International competitions
Barcelona fans celebrating the team's victory in the UEFA Champions League 2005-06
FIFA Club World Cup
* Runners-up (1): 2006
Intercontinental Cup
* Runners-up (1): 1992
UEFA Champions League
* Winners (2): 1992, 2006
* Runners-up (3): 1961, 1986, 1994
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (record)
* Winners (4): 1979, 1982, 1989, 1997
* Runners-up (2): 1969, 1991
European Super Cup
* Winners (2): 1992, 1997
* Runners-up (4): 1979, 1982, 1989, 2006
But they did get Ronaldinho, so you're argument's pointless.
They won La Liga twice, finished runners up three times, and won the Champions League once.
I'd say they've did pretty well in the 00's.
They've won the league twice in the last four years.
Right, so a Champions league semi's, a cup win, and then what about the league?
How many points do you think they'll finish ahead of Madrid?
It does say something, that Messi is the best player in Barca.
Ofcourse, if Barca do get knocked out of CL, the manner in which they go out is also important. If it due to injuries, ball decision or luck then perhaps it won't count against them. If they are knocked out fairly like last season, then it will. And also against Messi because of the fact that most of Barca success this season is attributed to him so he shoulders more blame for failure as well.
Regardless of Barca's success, Messi has been and will be recognised as the stand out player for this season. In long term though, if he does not achieve great success with Barca in terms of trophies, it will definitely count against him.
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