Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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Two hat-tricks but the quality of goals in each collection neatly reveals the difference between the pair. Ronaldo's ridiculous but Messi's just better.
Absolutely critical to them again tonight. It was no surprise that Espanyol took the lead and up to that point Messi looked as passive as the rest of the team. But he just got stronger as the game wore on. A couple of defender destroying runs and you could see the confidence draining out of them. If he can maintain the form he's showing, it'll be an extraordinary season.
A goal's a goal and a hat-trick's a hat-trick. I really don't get how people can say player x is better than player y just because player x's goal looks better.
Remember Ibra's ridiculous overhead goal against England? Does that make him better than Ronaldo or Messi?
Really? I think you can. I'd be more impressed with the player who had to work harder for his goals. Example if a player shows up to tap the ball in, id find it less impressive than one who has to dribble, or shoot from distance or whatever to score.
If a goals a goal then Gerd Muller is criminally under-rated in the list of all time greats.
Best thing since sliced bread.
We need @Kevin 's view on Messi's performance. Professor, you have the honour.
What? It makes Ibra's goal better than a goal that was a tap in, yes.
He is. He was more of an all-round player than he is given credit for.
how old are you, mate? if i may ask
Yep, he's symbolic as a poacher, but a pretty sturdy footballer with a very accurate shot. Got a fair few assists every season and his one-two plays with Beckenbauer were a great feature of his game as well.
i'm old enough to have seen muller and cruyff, but when they played there was no broadcasting of international football
we barely knew how the few argentinian footballers playing in the european leagues were doing
and they were a few so the argentinian league was brilliant, because most of the best argie players were here
we barely knew how the few argentinian footballers playing in the european leagues were doing
and they were a few so the argentinian league was brilliant, because most of the best argie players were here
How old are you? I thought you were in your late 20's, you old fecker!
i'm 50
well, i've just read that cruyff start playing for ajax the year that i was born
and i've started following football at 11 or 12
You will see that argument with a lot of Ronaldo fans. They seem to reduce football to numbers and stats, kinda like him actually. It is sad when so called football fans don't appreciate the artistry of the sport and become obsessed with numbers. Luckily most football people don't look at it the same, hence why Gerd Muller isn't classed in the same category as Maradona and Ronaldo isn't viewed as highly as Messi.
Maybe that person has to shoot from distance or dribble because he's not as good at timing his runs away from defenders to free himself inside the box?
I think that's stretching it. It's not rocket science and there are more players who can get in the box to score a tap in than can score after dribbling past a few players.
you cant be serious
Anyone else smile at the whole 'anything you can do' approach to scoring between him and Ronaldo?
It's never a surprise to see one has scored a hattrick immediately after the other. They're both insane.
It's never a surprise to see one has scored a hattrick immediately after the other. They're both insane.
I'm not comparing any two players. It was a response to the hypothetical player that seems to do more for every goal he scores.
If tap-ins were so easy to score there would be a lot more players with a high goal tally. I think this ability is actually dwindling. The only players that I can think of that regularly scores these types of goals are Costa and Ronaldo. Ruud was great at it, Raúl was great at it. Inzaghi supposedly great at it but frankly it was the only good part of his game and overstated as such. Not as good as Raúl or Ruud. Hernandez is the type but he's not as good either.
if you're scoring tap ins then the team around you is going to account for a HUGE part of that too.
He is over his injury, that was the only thing that kept Ronaldo above him a little.
Nothing about football is rocket science.
What I'm talking about is the ability to be unmarked. It's becoming less and less noticeable. Used to be the epitome of a great striker, the number of chances he would get because he managed to free himself of the defender. We're talking about the lack of great defenders in football at the moment but this is also something that's been lacking. It's weird because generally teams have better players. An average league team will have a player that can make that through ball pass where the striker wants it. Just not many teams have that striker.
Before Ronaldo and Messi craziness, these were the players that were topping the goal charts. Not many Ruud's in the game at the moment.
Plenty of other players score goals like that regularly. Alexis is one, Messi himself is another, Agüero too. I guess if a player scores all types of goals you forget about their tap ins.
A big part yes. Of course. It's a team game. Many teams will however get to the byline numerous of times each game. A great striker, like the ones I've been talking about, will raise the conversation rate considerably.
Personally I rated Barcelona more with Villa or Eto'o in their side than what came before or after, despite Messi being better now. They don't have that clinical nature to them and it's mentioned every game. "Messi would have had X assists if the other players would have done better".
That's not plenty. I mentioned examples, you just about mentioned the rest of them. Wouldn't count Alexis as one personally. He's not a striker. He's all over the place. He's more likely to score goals inside the box like Lampard, arriving after everyone else. Similar quality for a different position.
You never said they had to be a striker though. The way teams set up these days is a big reason why you don't see those poachers up front you talk about, but I don't think there is less of them about. They just play deeper or wider than before - like Alexis now, like David Villa/Pedro at Barcelona, like Müller.
Tap-ins have as much (may be even more) to do with the team and the way they play as the player himself. Yes the player has to have great timing and speed, but you can't compare that kind of contribution to the work Messi is putting to score the goals he scored today.
Of course not all of Ronaldo's goals are tap-ins and penalties, but this year they seem to make a significant percentage of his total goals. Regardless, and even if Ronaldo has much more than tap-ins and penalties to his game (which he undoubtedly does), you still imo can't claim that this hattrick...
is just as impressive as this.
You should have realized that. Used to be the epitome of a great striker, and me only talking about strikers and escaping their marker. The striker is the player that is usually man marked in football.
You're right, on of the reason we don't see it as much is the reasons you mentioned. But it's not the reason. What I'm talking about is football intelligence. Like finishing it can only be taught so much. It's up to the player to do the rest. You can excuse it for players that aren't playing as strikers. It's more often a trait associated with the midfielder which I find sad because my favorite player was the intelligent striker. Müller is a great example. I like him up top. He's underutilized there.
To the original discussion. There are many players that can dribble past player after player but isn't good at scoring. Then there are players that are great at scoring from outside the box but wouldn't cut it up top. Some players need to have the ball in order to function. Dismissing someone because he does just one thing and not the other, or elevating one above the other is simplistic. It's no rationalization for the individual.
i like messi he is good and i like when he scores lots of goals and he does it alot and he is a very good football.
I wasn't dismissing Cristiano (or anyone else) because they score more tap ins for what it's worth, just adding my two cents on the supposed lack of poachers about.
Is this you marcos?
What the feck. How much bend did he get on that shot? Didn't really notice until I saw this
I'm not doing that. I wasn't talking about this as a Messi vs Ronaldo at all. I was responding to Snake whom I found to oversimplify the act of goal scoring. Finding Messi more impressive than anyone else is hardly abnormal. He's also not the norm.
That curve.What the feck. How much bend did he get on that shot? Didn't really notice until I saw this
What the feck. How much bend did he get on that shot? Didn't really notice until I saw this
LOL, I saw that yesterday in twitter. It's obviously photoshopped.
Youtube grab:
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What the feck. How much bend did he get on that shot? Didn't really notice until I saw this
Coz it's a fake.
Nevertheless, Messi, you little genius. Those are high quality goals. Decline? What decline? If this is decline, I'd like some mega decline for our lads please.
Reminded me of this post by Jopub a fair few years ago about Muller...
So, how do we class him this season - as a midfielder or forward? He's always been one to pick the ball up deep but this season more than ever he seems to be as much the creative hub as I've ever seen him.
No I'm not disputing the fact that Ibra's goal was better than a tap in, my original point was that just because someone scores a beautiful goal, it doesn't make them a better player than someone who scores a tap in (although there are exceptions). A goal's a goal.
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