These are some of the chances Messi created in a game where he also scored a hattrick. None of his created chances were converted. Assists can be a very deceiving statistic.
Lionel Messi
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These are some of the chances Messi created in a game where he also scored a hattrick. None of his created chances were converted. Assists can be a very deceiving statistic.
Agreed. It is a statistic that does not tell the full story and neither does "chances created" (which is another misleading statistic) as you just have to pass the ball to a teammate and he takes a shot from 30-35 yards - you've "created a chance". Key pass? Same story. It is the same with Ronaldo though as he has created lots of chances that are not taken by his teammates (but still not as much as Messi does as he is clearly the better creator and passer of the two). Nevertheless, I stand by my point that Ronaldo has had the better calendar year and is currently the better and more effective player.
These are some of the chances Messi created in a game where he also scored a hattrick. None of his created chances were converted. Assists can be a very deceiving statistic.
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Go away, you odious twerps.
Messi looks back to his best. If Suarez finds his Liverpool form they'll be scary.
These are some of the chances Messi created in a game where he also scored a hattrick. None of his created chances were converted. Assists can be a very deceiving statistic.
Just too brilliant! I noticed you do this after many games. How do you make these?
And for all of Ronaldo's finishing ability, he's only 2 goals ahead of Messi in 2014. Playmaking ability is much more than assists though.
The reality is Messi has set a much higher standard for himself than Ronaldo, and that's the problem he's facing right now. When you hear people talking, and read the media talk about "Messi's decline" and "Ronaldo's amazing scoring run/form" you'd think Ronaldo scored double the amount of goals Messi did this year, and you'd probably be shocked to learn that he's only 2 goals ahead in the calendar year (54 for Ronaldo and 52 for Messi), and I'm not even taking penalties into account here (this season Ronaldo took 8 penalties compared to 1 for Messi).
Those two players are clearly better than the rest, and I wouldn't complain if either of them got it this year, but to say that Ronaldo has been clearly ahead of Messi this year is an over-estimation based on holding both players to different standards imo.
Yes Ronaldo got "lucky" as Ramos bailed him out in the CL which meant he did end up with a trophy, but Messi was also one goal (or save) away from winning a major trophy twice (La Liga and the world cup), and when the margins are that close you can't really put too much weight on trophies, especially considering Messi's team finished higher than Ronaldo's on two occasions last year, and considering Ronaldo won the Ballon d'Or after a trophy-less season last year.
And finally, if you want to know which player is more important to his club, just think about who would suffer more, Barcelona without Messi or Real Madrid without Ronaldo? And you'll have your answer.
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Con-fekkin-curred
Technically this "offside" goal should have clinched the title for Barca. Ball hit the defender, so shouldn't be offside.
Magnificent.
My point is that messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo. I'm not talking about what messi can do. I'm talking about what he does do and has done. He simply contributes all over the pitch unlike Ronaldo. They're both ahead of the rest of the pack but Messi is just the complete attacker. He drops deep to pick the ball, instigates attacks, sets up a ridiculous amount of chances, and obviously, scores and assists plenty. The key difference is in the stuff other than the last two things of the previous sentence. Messi does what Ronaldo does, but also runs the play, also everything goes on him, also onus is on him to create, and he does. Whether he's scoring or assisting, right now Barca's whole play goes through him. Madrid's play has never gone through ronaldo and never will.
I like both of them. Ronaldo for the fond United memories, and messi for his brilliance (although I disliked him before). But yeah, I think messi is a cut above anyone I've seen.
But Ronaldo doesn't play centrally, makes it a lot harder for all play to go through him or for him to control games..
Being an all rounder has never been a criteria for being the best footballer on planet. When Original Ronaldo was at his peak, there were several footballers around who contributed more than him all over the pitch. Whilst he was much better at dribbling past folks, like C.Ron he was never a player who could alone elevate his team. For the record, I agree that Messi is the better player but it is not because he has more facets to his game that Ronaldo.
That argument only help explain why Messi is better, it doesn't mean they are somehow closer to each other because Ronaldo is shunted to the wing.
He couldn't do what Messi does if handed a free role either. There is a reason he plays from the wing.
It is when that all rounder is so good at everything. Its not exactly a case of gerrard or rooney who are well rounded but not absolutely brilliant at most of those things.
I think it is, given how close they are goalscoring wise.
Ronaldo scores loads. Messi scores loads and can elevate his teammates. That's something that sets them apart.
Fwiw, at inter Ronaldo was the sort of player who was the creative fulcrum of the team as well.
Ronaldo's small time at Inter where he was supposedly the fulcrum is same as C.Ron's time with us where most of attacking plays went through him.
With Messi, it is not as clear cut though. Ronaldo obviously needs to be a in a very good team to produce these numbers. People argue otherwise for Messi at times but that does not explain his failure to perform at same level for Argies. Nor does it explain Barca's dip with decline of Xavi. Not to bring Maradona comparisons in here but don't think Messi has shown that he is capable of carrying a team alone. But again, that should never be the criteria for BPITW or best player ever.
Maradona never "carried the team alone". He played with quality players, as did Ronaldo, and is Messi and Cristiano.
Before marcos also chimes in, players at Napoli and Argentina were obviously not water carriers. But were many of those players at the same level as Xavi, Iniesta ?
And did they play as well as Messi's Barca did with xavi and Iniesta? To expect barca to be of the same level when xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, pedro, alves etc all decline is something I've heard here a lot and it's actually laughable. No team stays as good when so many important players decline. Even puyol has left and pique is lost in off the pitch matters.
Xavi plays little minutes now for Barca and Iniesta has been a shitheel this season so it doesn't really matter. Messi is capable of doing both their jobs and his own at the same time.
Is there anything to suggest that Messi can have as big an impact of as long a time as CR from the wings? or must he play centrally...
Furthermore, while I agree Messi is doing something Ronaldo isn't, it again, doesn't mean he couldn't. A greater test of a top "footballer" for me, would be who'd play CB and CM best rather than just the attacking options..
That's a good point. But the argument goes that Messi can perform and elevate his team without a supporting cast, which does not have evidence I feel. He is less dependent on others to play well unlike Ronaldo but to be at his best he still needs to be in a dominating team. Otherwise you get a WC messi who will score and assist at times but will largely be subdued and out of the game.
If you look at the post above me, you will see that apparently he can cover for both Xavi and Iniesta whilst also playing the role of a forward.
this is an ok article discussing that very point
http://www.averageopposition.com/2012/03/the-myth-of-maradona.html
what stats cant take into account though is the elegance and magic that you felt when maradonna was on the ball - like gazza he played as if he was the best kid in school and just wanted to tear up the playground! plattini Zidane Ronaldo are all great players and you can make an argument for any of them being as good / better if you want - but Zico, Maradonna and Messi just have that special spark when they get the ball - well for me anyway and no stats can ever show that
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As for who is more important to his club all I will say is that if last season if Ronaldo performed vs Dortmund and Bayern (two teams Madrid massively struggle against in the CL in recent years) the way Messi did vs Atletico in the Cl then we would have lost no doubt. A Barca fan on here (malappapper) even called it the worst performance he ever saw which is a massive exaggeration no doubt but shows that he let his team down when it mattered like Ronaldo did with Portugal. For Madrid this year Ronaldo as well as being more consistent over the calendar year imo, was there for his team in the big games more than Messi (Dortmund, Bayern, Atletico in the copa semis and even in the last Clasico where he was not great he still scored and played his part in the third goal which was more than what Messi contributed in the game. Even in the CL final where he was poor his tracking back resulted in him winning the ball and releasing it to set up either the 2nd or 3rd goal. Not much but still a bigger contribution than what Messi did vs Atletico in any of the times Barca played them.) and that is why imo he deserves the award this year. Also Ronaldo did not win anything in 2013 but his 69 goals in 60 games in comparison to Messi's 45 in 46 was certainly impressive and played a big part in convincing people to vote for him.
I don't actually disagree with anything you have said which is why I think it is funny that you have responded to me. I'm not sure if you have read all my recent posts or just one. I never ever said that Ronaldo has been clearly or much better than Messi, I have just said he has been better. Do you disagree? Do you disagree that Ronaldo deserves to win the award? I am aware that Ronaldo only has two more goals than Messi (in 8 less appearances no less) but his top scorer awards in La Liga and the CL (individual awards) will give him a big boost in addition to his consistent performances over the year (all in my opinion of course but this is backed up by stats also. Ronaldo has 54 goals and 17 assists in 53 apps in comparison to Messi who has 52 goals and 21 assists in 61 apps. Ronaldo's goals and assists per appearance is better than Messi's) . Of all the people in this thread I am one of the few who is a Ronaldo fan that can admit Messi's the better player when he is at his best and is among the very best of all time ie top three or four ever (a category Ronaldo is not in) which is another reason that I find your response to me baffling as I have always given Messi credit (which the likes of TheBellEnd are unable to do in regards to Ronaldo).
As for who is more important to his club all I will say is that if last season if Ronaldo performed vs Dortmund and Bayern (two teams Madrid massively struggle against in the CL in recent years) the way Messi did vs Atletico in the Cl then we would have lost no doubt. A Barca fan on here (malappapper) even called it the worst performance he ever saw which is a massive exaggeration no doubt but shows that he let his team down when it mattered like Ronaldo did with Portugal. For Madrid this year Ronaldo as well as being more consistent over the calendar year imo, was there for his team in the big games more than Messi (Dortmund, Bayern, Atletico in the copa semis and even in the last Clasico where he was not great he still scored and played his part in the third goal which was more than what Messi contributed in the game. Even in the CL final where he was poor his tracking back resulted in him winning the ball and releasing it to set up either the 2nd or 3rd goal. Not much but still a bigger contribution than what Messi did vs Atletico in any of the times Barca played them.) and that is why imo he deserves the award this year. Also Ronaldo did not win anything in 2013 but his 69 goals in 60 games in comparison to Messi's 45 in 46 was certainly impressive and played a big part in convincing people to vote for him.
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So you think Messi has had the better calendar year and is more deserving of the Balon D'or than Ronaldo?
distefano?
Every player needs a supporting cast. Every single one. They don't gave to be xavi and Iniesta but the support needs to be good. For example, luis suArez at liverpool last season. Supporting cast, on paper, was pretty average. On the pitch it was actually stunning support. Are we saying that messi can't do what suarez did last year? Because that would be crazy talk.
And I don't think he's just an assist and goals player. He does much more. Everything that barca have done this season goes through him.
i think that he is saying that messi is the better player
not that hard to understand
and btw, besides some Manchester United fans and most Portuguse and Real Madrid fans, everyone else thinks that messi is the better player
and dont get me wrong, i'm not belitting ronaldo, he is amazing, he is a top scorer, he is fast, he is a wonderfull athlete
but he is not as good as messi
Yeah so if that was criteria. Stefano would be rated higher than both Pele and Mardona since he was much rounded footballer than either and could produce same if not better numbers.
When Messi is at his best Ronaldo is not as good as him. Imo Messi has not been at his best for quite some time and Ronaldo has had a better 2013 (which was backed up by him winning the Balon D'or 2014) and 2014 (which will be backed up by him winning the Balon D'or 2015) so by extension is currently the better player and has been the better player over the past two years. All in my opinion of course. Not that hard to understand.
i'm not saying that THAT is the criteria, but being an all around player has been one criteria to chose one player as one of the best
Distefano and Cruyff as two of the best examples
then we agree mate
Little genius. What a man, what a record.
A little side note mate, Ronaldo won the Balon D'Or 2013 and is probably going to win the Balon D'Or 2014.
Anyway, I don't think Messi will win. Voting is already closed. If he is able to maintain his current form or continue to play like he has so far this season though, I'd have him nailed on as a favourite to win it in 2015.
You are right. I thought that because it was handed out in January that it was called the Balon D'or 2015 and the same with the last one.
It's way too early for 2015 though. Anything can happen in an year. Ronaldo though will win it this year, which means FIFA will award it to Gotze.
I think you very well know that's bullshit.
He wasn't better than Messi at all, that year Messi was still in scintillating form cumilating with the absurd record he set by the end of March (scoring against all 19 teams consecutively). If anyone can ever lay claim to 'single handedly' winning their Club a title, it was Messi that year. Barcelona were exposed big time as a one man team when Messi returned half injured against PSG to get them into the CL semi final. On/off appearances he still managed to win all the individual accolades, and scored some blinders in the process (Bilbao away).
He started the following season in better form than Ronaldo too, in fact, Isco was even better than Ronaldo for about a month and a half. Ribery won the European Player of the Year at a canter, Ronaldo managed just 3(!) votes to Messi's 14 and Ribery's 30+. It was only by about October that Ronaldo went on a ridiculous scoring spree as Messi picked up more injuries and the Ballon d'Or voting was controversally re-opened just after his hat-trick against Sweden in November.
Ronaldo would deserve it this year, extremely consistent despite a no show in the CL final and World Cup, but last year? That was an absoloute scandal. Ribery still appears to be very bitter towards it and rightly so.
In the calendar year 2013 Ronaldo scored 69 goals in 60 appearances and Messi scored 45 goals in 46 appearances. I do not remember their assists stats but as far as I can remember Messi was ahead in them but not as far ahead of Ronaldo in terms of assists as Ronaldo was ahead of Messi in terms of goals. Ronaldo had better goals and assists per appearances than Messi had. Ronaldo won the top scorer award in the CL that year and Messi won the top scorer award in La Liga (and I am sure you would agree that the CL is viewed as a bigger competition than La Liga or any league). For me if Messi deserved to win it in 2012 for scoring more goals than Ronaldo despite not winning anything big then Ronaldo deserved to win it in 2013 for scoring more goals than Messi, despite not winning anything big.
The UEFA awards are based on the CL and European Championships (maybe the World cup too) over the league, hence why Milito, Iniesta and Ribery have won it over Ronaldo and Messi. If you play a big part in your team winning the CL or Euros then you will win it.
I'd just like to point out that Ruud's record there is utterly phenomenal. The best ratio there? A testament to how good he really was.
Third.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ons_League_records_and_statistics#Goalscoring
Messi's second, Di Stefano first.
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