Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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Wow. What a weird list.
Not bad, eh..
He should have broken it a long time ago tbf. Should never have let Ronaldo get that close to doing it before him.
We'll see, poor Basel
It's ridiculous he can manage to be so prolific from such a deep position. That second goal was a thing of beauty - such a deft chipped finish with your weaker foot, perfectly placed...you don't see many of them at all.
Interesting that he's only scored 2 less than Cristiano in 2014. You'd think there'd be a much bigger gap with the way some get on.
Absolute genius. Best player in the world, nqat.
Ronaldo's started the last two seasons in great scoring form, just before the Ballon d'Or votes are closed off.
Last season he went on a ridiculous scoring spree cumilating with the hat-trick against Sweden, the votes then opened for him as Messi had an injury lay off.
This season he's done the same, 25 goals in 18 games, 20 in 11 in the league. Votes apparently closed off on Friday, before Messi's two back to back hat-tricks.
Some ridiculous stats for last 2 games. Goals, passes, accuracy, dribbles and even odd tackles. Today's stats -
3 goals
5 shots, 4 on target
7 dribbles
100 passes, 89% accuracy
8 key passes
5 long balls, 4 accurate
1 tackle
It's like a cheat code player.
3 goals
5 shots, 4 on target
7 dribbles
100 passes, 89% accuracy
8 key passes
5 long balls, 4 accurate
1 tackle
It's like a cheat code player.
He has played 8 games more over the calendar year so that would perhaps explain that for you. He only has four more assists also. You'd think there'd be a much bigger gap with the way some get on.
Just bizarre. Easy to forget just what we are witnessing such is he freak consistency.
I don't really want to get into a Messi vs Cristiano debate (though the post you replied to probably suggests the opposite
). Just found it genuinely surprising how close they are in 2014 - statistically anyway, in overall performances I've always thought they were close this year. You wouldn't think it with the overall narrative.The Ronaldo love-in is fair but anybody who considers him better actually is just bitter. This guy is the best ever, theres no denying it.
Stop being silly.
These two are just ridiculous. I'm inclined to think this is one of the greatest individual rivalries in sporting history with each one pushing the other beyond preconceived limits and tearing down long established records in unison. Ronaldo will eclipse Raul's European tally and Madrid's all-time record soon. Messi is the highest goalscorer in La Liga history at age 27, broke Muller's long standing single year record at age 25.
23 goals and 7 assists for Ronaldo in 16 club games this season.
17 goals and 9 assists for Messi in 17 club games in the same period.
Just astounding in terms of sheer consistency of their production. Some players have intermittent peaks (like Suarez in 2013/ 2014 or Falcao in 2012/ 2013) but these two have been at it for more than half a decade now. No one else has come close to their level for most of those years, and the scary part is they're not letting up. Wouldn't be surprised if either one keeps at it till their mid 30s.
A lot of the criticism of Messi over the last two years has been excessive and undeserved. It is true that he is not as good as he was before but he is still absolutely excellent and among the two best players in the world however I feel Ronaldo has edged it in 2013 and 2014. Before then Messi was clearly ahead of the rest and undisputedly the best. That is not the case anymore but perhaps he will reach that level again.I don't really want to get into a Messi vs Cristiano debate (though the post you replied to probably suggests the opposite
He's perhaps been in better form, certainly more consistent, but he's not a better player than Messi though, never has been.
Agree.
Fair post. Certainly does seem to be heading that way. I do think Messi's goalscoring will dip in the next few years (and it already has in truth), as I see him becoming more of a pure playmaker. Don't see the overall performances of either dropping much though as long as they avoid injury.
I don't think there's too much in it for 2014 - Cristiano clearly the better over the 13/14 season but in 2014 as a whole I think they've both had about half a year of brilliant performances and half a year of disappointing ones (by their standards). Agree about 2013 though, and the rest of your post.
Those stats are exactly why its frankly ridiculous to suggest anyone else should be first or second in the Ballon D'or, and it's been that way for 6 years now pretty much. Head and shoulders above everyone else in world football, none of this "they've won it plenty of times, lets give it to Neuer/Ribery or whoever because they had great years". Just no. While they may have some great seasons, and win stuff like the World Cup/Champions league, there is still nobody with the consistency to produce as many goals and assists as those 2. If we were 10 years ago, then there would've been hope for somebody else to win it, but Ronaldo and Messi are just so far ahead of anyone else that unless both get long term injuries in one year, there just won't be anyone else winning the Ballon D'Or until they seriously decline and stop getting over 40-50 goals a season.
Even as people criticize Messi for his sub-par year on a personal level, that level is still better then anybody else apart from Ronaldo.
TBPITW .
He has been in better form than Messi over the last two years so therefore he has been the better player and currently is the better player. What Messi did a few seasons ago (when he was performing better than Ronaldo) is irrelevant to the discussion now, unless you want to compare their whole careers and discuss who has been better. And if that is the case then the answer is Messi. But the topic at hand is the calendar year and the present, in which Ronaldo has been better and is better at the current moment. So therefore Ronaldo is the better player (right now) as he is performing better (right now and the last two years) and is more important and reliable for his team (right now and over the last two years).
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I think he meant comparing both at their peak. Not 100% sure, but I'd agree with him if so.
Including him in the conversation for TBPOAT wouldn't be so out of order either to be fair.
Disagree with that one. Messi won Barcelona Tito Vilanova's season single-handedly which included the first half of 2013 scoring a shitload of goals!!
Messi should have won that year's ballon d'or just like Sneijder or some other player should have won in 2010.
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Yup, that's probably closer to what's going to happen. Messi might become more of a creator as Neymar reaches his peak in terms of goalscoring consistency. But my word, if his decline is scoring at the rate of a goal per game, I'm not sure what 99.9% of the other footballers are up to.
Goals aside, Messi does take part in actual build-up of the play. He starts most attacks for both Argentina and Barca for last 2/3 years now. Ronaldo not so much. Ronaldo is more of a clinical finisher, though he does get assists. If you want a player to finish a chance in the box, you would rather choose Ronaldo now. Messi, more often is likely to hit the post! But if you want someone to create chances for your team, none better than Messi now, not even Messi of 2010/11. Even today, there were 4 clear-cut chances created for Alba, Rakitic, Suarez and Pedro. But nobody could score of them. I don't see anyone at present who could create so many chances for his team.
Does anybody have the statistics for covered ground for Messi this year?
In the calendar year 2013 Ronaldo scored 69 goals in 60 appearances and Messi scored 45 goals in 46 appearances. I do not remember their assists stats but as far as I can remember Messi was ahead in them but not as far ahead of Ronaldo in terms of assists as Ronaldo was ahead of Messi in terms of goals. Ronaldo won the top scorer award in the CL that year and Messi won the top scorer award in La Liga (and I am sure you would agree that the CL is viewed as a bigger competition than La Liga or any league). For me if Messi deserved to win it in 2012 for scoring more goals than Ronaldo despite not winning anything big then Ronaldo deserved to win it in 2013 for scoring more goals than Messi, despite not winning anything big.
As for 2010, Messi absolutely deserved it. He scored 47 goals before scoring that many was considered the norm for him and Ronaldo and his performances over the whole year were phenomenal (winning top scorer in the CL and the league). He was streets ahead of everyone else that year and was far more deserving than Sneider whose form in Seria A was not so consistent in comparison to his teammates (especially Diego Milito and Samuel). Sneijder saved his best performances for the CL and while he had a good world cup, there were other players who were better at that tournament than him also. It should also be pointed out that Milito was considered Inters best player that year which was backed up by him winning the Uefa award.
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GOAT.
Only got a link for the Champion's League distance stats. Sorry.
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2015/statistics/round=2000548/players/index.html
Agree with your 2nd paragraph, though I've always maintained that Xavi, Forlán and even Sneijder would've been deserving winners too in my opinion (Milito, aside from winning UEFA individual prizes, also won Serie A's Best Player ánd Best Foreign Player awards; in addition to literally scoring the goals that won them the league on the final day, the cup and the CL; he would've been deserving if his 2nd half of that year hadn't been so disastrous). On to the 2012 & 2013 BdO's, I've often stated it in relevant threads that I would 100% have Cristiano as deserving winner for 2012 (Pirlo second, Messi/Iniesta to round off the top-3), but not even particularly close for 2013 (Ribéry would've been my choice). Messi's 2013 calendar year was largely a write-off due to his injury issues, and even when he still outshone Cristiano in some aspects (most notably big game performances IMO), it's very problematic to rank him any higher than 3rd. Ribéry won the press vote by a huge margin in August with the Best Player in Europe award, so considering his and their 2nd half of that year it's absurd that they were able to overtake him in the BdO.
For 2014 I'd say Cristiano, Robben and Neuer would all be deserving winners. Those who make it seem so clear cut, let's be honest even though Cristiano somehow finished as pichichi and best player for 2013/14 league season (he wasn't even the best forward IMO, let alone best player) his real saving grace was his extraordinary form in the CL (and even there the "direct" value of his goals is somewhat questionable) and the fact that you guys won it. On his own team, Di María and Modric were better in the 1st half of 2014 and Ramos, Benzema and Bale probably all scored more important or significant goals than him. The WC was probably the poorest international tournament of his career yet. Then 2nd half of 2014 his scoring form went up a notch (coinciding with the team as a whole playing offensively at a very high level; for example his goal contribution in % is roughly the same as in previous seasons), but up until October his performances were quite average (the 3 biggest sports dailies, Marca, AS, MD, also reflect this in their match ratings of that period) except for one outstanding half v Atléti. Since that time however he HAS indeed gone up a notch in performances and I'm beginning to feel that we could witness a re-emergence of a more complete Cristiano, as he's looking to combine more often and wanting to be more involved in the build-up. I don't know what your view is on your team's performances this season and how you would rate individuals, but I found Benzema to be very impressive this season (also scoring more consistently, another factor to suggest that Cristiano's surge in numbers is connected to a greater team performance level). Kroos very solid; James Rodríguez and Isco excellent if somewhat inconsistent.
Not at all. Ronaldo is playing better relative to his own abilities. Messi is still the better footballer and probably will always be. The key difference is that messi can drop deep and playmake. He can play that ridiculous lofted pass to alba. He can score 3 despite spending so much time so deep.
So what is your point exactly? Do you believe Messi has had a better year than Ronaldo and has been more important and consistent for his team over the calendar year? For all of Messi's playmaking abilities he is only ahead of Ronaldo by 4 or 5 assists by the way. Over the last two years Ronaldo has been more consistent and has contributed more to help his team win matches and therefore has been and is at present the better, more important and more useful player. If Messi is not using his abilities to help his team win matches as regularly as Ronaldo is, as well as not performing as consistently as Ronaldo then how can you say he is currently the better player. Performance will always be more important than what a player can do on paper. Ronaldo is and for the last two years has been using his strengths more consistently and effectively and as a result has been of more use to his team than Messi has been to his. I agree that Messi is the more complete footballer (and is the better player on his day) but like i said before if he is not using all of his abilities as consistently as Ronaldo is to help his team win matches then you can not say he is the better player currently. Football is not played on paper. What a player does is more important than what they can do.
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Sorry, but I don't like the scrote.
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