Lionel Messi

Status
Not open for further replies.
marcus agrippa said:
that's the logical response.

but football, esp. CL football, is a different beast.

in the CL latter stages, the top teams can beat any other top team on its day, and the more experienced the team is at winning the CL, the more dangerous they are. we were absolutely flying in 06/07, while Milan were not, yet they gave their all in two games against us, and that's all she wrote.

in 94, Barca were absolute favourites against Milan, yet we know what happened.

unlike a league campaign, all you have to be in the CL is good over two nights, or at least just the one night.
Click to expand...

Spot on.
I guess this Barca is experienced as you said and they'll be confident (like they were last year in the semi) but it doesn't mean they'll win for sure.
I don't remember which year it was but there was also a when Barcelona did win all the 6 group matches and they were strong favorite to win the CL but they didn't.
 
Thats going slightly over the top.

Ronaldo had a few performances last season which were as good as Messi's best this season.

The difference is that Messi seems to be putting those performances in every week now, whereas it was just a few games for Ronaldo.
 
marcus agrippa said:
that's the logical response.

but football, esp. CL football, is a different beast.

in the CL latter stages, the top teams can beat any other top team on its day, and the more experienced the team is at winning the CL, the more dangerous they are. we were absolutely flying in 06/07, while Milan were not, yet they gave their all in two games against us, and that's all she wrote.

in 94, Barca were absolute favourites against Milan, yet we know what happened.

unlike a league campaign, all you have to be in the CL is good over two nights, or at least just the one night.
Click to expand...

We played more attacking football than Milan in 06/07 but also choked against the likes of organized teams like Arsenal ...Milan being a better and a more experienced version were able to twat us more comprehensively. In the second leg, with the lack of depth in the squad, and the midfield options stood exposed at San Siro. As for Barcelona this season, there seems to be hardly any flaws, they have blown away all teams they have come across, playing better football than in 05/06. In 94 its the foreingers rule undid them, Cruyff has had enough with Laudrup and benched him in the favour of other three in a highly tactical match against Capello and it backfired. Milan were better under Sacchi than Capello althoug Berlusconi bought every other moving object to build a great team.
 
Ekeke said:
Thats going slightly over the top.

Ronaldo had a few performances last season which were as good as Messi's best this season.

The difference is that Messi seems to be putting those performances in every week now, whereas it was just a few games for Ronaldo.
Click to expand...

Which is why I said that in terms of the overall quality of his performances, Messi has been miles ahead.
 
vijay said:
We played more attacking football than Milan in 06/07 but also choked against the likes of organized teams like Arsenal ...Milan being a better and a more experienced version were able to twat us more comprehensively. In the second leg, with the lack of depth in the squad, and the midfield options stood exposed at San Siro. As for Barcelona this season, there seems to be hardly any flaws, they have blown away all teams they have come across, playing better football than in 05/06. In 94 its the foreingers rule undid them, Cruyff has had enough with Laudrup and benched him in the favour of other three in a highly tactical match against Capello and it backfired. Milan were better under Sacchi than Capello althoug Berlusconi bought every other moving object to build a great team.
Click to expand...

do you realise the point of my original post?

:rolleyes:
 
KingEric7 said:
Which is why I said that in terms of the overall quality of his performances, Messi has been miles ahead.
Click to expand...

And I'm saying the performances are on a similar level

But Messi is putting them in every week instead of 2 or 3 matches in a season.
 
Ekeke said:
Thats going slightly over the top.

Ronaldo had a few performances last season which were as good as Messi's best this season.

The difference is that Messi seems to be putting those performances in every week now, whereas it was just a few games for Ronaldo.
Click to expand...


Rubbish.. You don't get to be top scorer and golden boot winner, and all the bloody awards by just producing over a few games.
 
SittingBull said:
Rubbish.. You don't get to be top scorer and golden boot winner, and all the bloody awards by just producing over a few games.
Click to expand...

Why dont you read my post properly?

I'm saying Ronaldo had a few games last season where he was as good as Messi's best form this season.

If anything I'm giving Ronaldo slightly too much credit. And if you disagree with that you clearly havent seen Messi this year.
 
Ok so you guys would select this season's Messi ahead of last season's Ronaldo if you had to bet your bollocks on it?

Thinking about it...I didn't think this would be so tough...Ronaldo might disappear at times but Messi could get injured....tough call really.
 
MUFC07 said:
Ok so you guys would select this season's Messi ahead of last season's Ronaldo if you had to bet your bollocks on it?

Thinking about it...I didn't think this would be so tough...Ronaldo might disappear at times but Messi could get injured....tough call really.
Click to expand...

Maybe.

Ronaldo was probably a little more likely to score last season than Messi this season, but Messi's general play is always fantastic which wasnt always the case with Ronaldo - And thats led to Messi directly creating a shit load of goals as well as scoring them, which Ronaldo didnt do so much.

When there arent too many goals between them, Messi takes it for me.
 
Ekeke said:
Maybe.

Ronaldo was probably a little more likely to score last season than Messi this season, but Messi's general play is always fantastic which wasnt always the case with Ronaldo - And thats led to Messi directly creating a shit load of goals as well as scoring them, which Ronaldo didnt do so much.

When there arent too many goals between them, Messi takes it for me.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo 06/07
 
Ekeke said:
Why dont you read my post properly?

I'm saying Ronaldo had a few games last season where he was as good as Messi's best form this season.

If anything I'm giving Ronaldo slightly too much credit. And if you disagree with that you clearly havent seen Messi this year.
Click to expand...


My apologies.. No doubt, Messi is absolutely brilliant this season, and clearly would on the way to being one of the greatest players ever
 
MUFC07 said:
Ok so you guys would select this season's Messi ahead of last season's Ronaldo if you had to bet your bollocks on it?

Thinking about it...I didn't think this would be so tough...Ronaldo might disappear at times but Messi could get injured....tough call really.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo isn't immune from injuries either.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Messi is Messi. He is on another level to any other footballer on the planet at this moment in time.
Click to expand...

Let's see Barca match up against one of the better sides before we jump to conclusions.

Ronaldo did it all last season, Messi hasn't done it yet.
 
Feed Me said:
Fine.



Why not?

They're both in the category of player who are considered as best in the world. I'd say comparison between the two is totally valid.
Click to expand...

No, Ronaldo is a play who needs space. Otherwise, his tricks are not always performing.

Messi is simply the only one on earth right now who can decide to get rid of a player with a dribble without preparing it. All the other players have to prepare to some extend, decide it and get rid of the opponent. Messi can wait for the defensive player to do the first step, and still get rid of him.

It's just very special for me.

Ronaldo is very skillful but Messi is magical just. And Ronaldo is not exactly the kind of player who would, like Messi, take the ball and go score one of the goal which looks so much like Maradona's. Ronaldo is different just.
 
Cal? said:
Let's see Barca match up against one of the better sides before we jump to conclusions.

Ronaldo did it all last season, Messi hasn't done it yet.
Click to expand...

If there is one thing Messi has done it is match up against the better sides.

Of course Barca need to go pretty much to the final of the champions league but even if they don't the way they are demolishing La Liga this seasons deserves recognition. They are without doubt the best team on the planet at the moment.
 
Gasolin said:
No, Ronaldo is a play who needs space. Otherwise, his tricks are not always performing.

Messi is simply the only one on earth right now who can decide to get rid of a player with a dribble without preparing it. All the other players have to prepare to some extend, decide it and get rid of the opponent. Messi can wait for the defensive player to do the first step, and still get rid of him.

It's just very special for me.

Ronaldo is very skillful but Messi is magical just. And Ronaldo is not exactly the kind of player who would, like Messi, take the ball and go score one of the goal which looks so much like Maradona's. Ronaldo is different just.
Click to expand...

Short memory, eh? I dont mind people raving for Messi, but in doing that, Ronaldo's qualities are often underestimated or people simply fail to give Ronaldo adequate ratings. Ronaldo can dribble without any space and get easily past defenders. Messi's dribbling is outstanding, but that doesnt make him the better player. IMO in most other departments, Ronaldo's better than Messi.
Who's the better player? Who knows... Last season clearly Ronaldo, this season clearly Messi
 
SittingBull said:
My apologies.. No doubt, Messi is absolutely brilliant this season, and clearly would on the way to being one of the greatest players ever
Click to expand...

Agreed. :p

Thats not to say Ronaldo isnt though (I hate that argument). Afterall he's still very young. There's no reason Ronaldo cant improve over the next few years and at his peak be as good as any other player.
 
Escobar said:
Short memory, eh? I dont mind people raving for Messi, but in doing that, Ronaldo's qualities are often underestimated or people simply fail to give Ronaldo adequate ratings. Ronaldo can dribble without any space and get easily past defenders. Messi's dribbling is outstanding, but that doesnt make him the better player. IMO in most other departments, Ronaldo's better than Messi.
Who's the better player? Who knows... Last season clearly Ronaldo, this season clearly Messi
Click to expand...

+1
 
FranklyVulgar said:
If there is one thing Messi has done it is match up against the better sides.

Of course Barca need to go pretty much to the final of the champions league but even if they don't the way they are demolishing La Liga this seasons deserves recognition. They are without doubt the best team on the planet at the moment.
Click to expand...

Without doubt? Jumping to conclusion before Barca have played any of United, Chelsea, Inter & co.

Are you basing this on them being a poor Real Madrid side or just they're walking away with La Liga?

Did anyone say United were "without doubt the best team on the planet" when we walked the Premiership in 99-00 or 00-01?
 
I don't think anyone is under rating Ronaldo. After all at 23 he is world footballer of the year by all accounts and is a champion and a world class player.

But i've said it all along, we are witnessing something which in my opinion is truely special in Lionel Messi. At 21 he is performing at a level that is remarkable. I've never seen a player almost always have a moment in a match where he single handedly does something remarkable.

Messi is good enough now that if he just maintains it he'll go down as a legend. If he keeps improving (which can happen being still 21) i can't really imagine what sort of player he'll be in 2 or 3 years.

Only injury can stop him.
 
I hope he never comes to the Premier League, its not for him. And if he did I doubt he would join Manchester United.
 
Cal? said:
Without doubt? Jumping to conclusion before Barca have played any of United, Chelsea, Inter & co.

Are you basing this on them being a poor Real Madrid side or just they're walking away with La Liga?

Did anyone say United were "without doubt the best team on the planet" when we walked the Premiership in 99-00 or 00-01?
Click to expand...

I don't really see the point in arguing, if you can't admit that at this moment in time based on performances so far, form, players form, mentality, results, league position, goal difference that Barca are the in form team and in my opinion "without doubt the best team on the planet" at this moment in time.

That doesn't mean that come febuary, march, april, may that they'll still be, or that they will beat any of the teams you mentioned because at that stage in the champions league any team can beat any team. But you only have to compare domestic leagues to see why i would have such an opinion at this stage.
 
Dippersripper said:
He did not score as many goals. Messi this season is a union of Ronaldo v07 and v08
Click to expand...

Ronaldo is a winger not a striker or forward like Messi, so goals really aren't what he's all about, this was especially the case in 06/07. In that season he scored 23 goals which is still a great tally for a winger, plus setting up over 20+ goals. If Messi can score 42 goals this season, then you can say he's a Ronaldo v08, but even then Ronaldo was a winger for much of last season with only a handful of games playing up front as a striker which makes his 07/08 season even more incredible. Messi is the best player on current form though with Dani Alves not far behind.
 
Last season Ronaldo was the better player although there were glimpses towards the end of the season which showed that Messi in the long run was going to be the better player.

This season he has just established that as a fact. There can be no argument that he isn't the best player in the world right now and he will go down as the best player since Maradona if he stays injury free. Ronaldo will probably come second, which is no insult.
 
reddevilcanada said:
Ronaldo is a winger not a striker or forward like Messi, so goals really aren't what he's all about, this was especially the case in 06/07. In that season he scored 23 goals which is still a great tally for a winger, plus setting up over 20+ goals. If Messi can score 42 goals this season, then you can say he's a Ronaldo v08, but even then Ronaldo was a winger for much of last season with only a handful of games playing up front as a striker which makes his 07/08 season even more incredible. Messi is the best player on current form though with Dani Alves not far behind.
Click to expand...

Your logic is so flawed. One set of rules for one and another for the other. Good work.

You give Ronaldo the winger tag as justification for his brilliance. Then you say even if Messi scored 42 goals it wouldnt be as good as Ronaldo scoring 42...

So you judge Ronaldos goal scoring as being better because he is a winger yet you say goals arn't really what he's all about. So what is he all about if not scoring a lot of goals? that is what he's became all about. If you judge him on his wing play then he managed a handful of assists so what does that make him? An incrediblely remarkable free scoring winger? Despite not doing his actual job? which according to you is wing play...

Messi is a forward, so is Ronaldo. They are both modern forwards. Players that can play anywhere across the front, on the wing or up top or even in the hole.

The difference between them and the reason you can't compare them or say Messi = Ronaldo 08 is because it's just daft.

What Ronaldo did in 07/08 was quite remarkable from a goal scoring point of view. He didn't stop scoring. What Messi is doing is more, he is scoring more, he is setting up more goals and his all round play is on a level above anyone else in the game. That is what is remarkable about Messi, he is not just scoring goals for fun, he is dominating opposition, creating openings and doing remarkable things in virtually every game.
 
reddevilcanada said:
Ronaldo is a winger not a striker or forward like Messi, so goals really aren't what he's all about, this was especially the case in 06/07. In that season he scored 23 goals which is still a great tally for a winger, plus setting up over 20+ goals. If Messi can score 42 goals this season, then you can say he's a Ronaldo v08, but even then Ronaldo was a winger for much of last season with only a handful of games playing up front as a striker which makes his 07/08 season even more incredible. Messi is the best player on current form though with Dani Alves not far behind.
Click to expand...

Have to say, regarding the Ronaldo being mainly on the wing last season, that's absolute nonsense. This season he's spending most of his time out on the wing, and obviously his goal count diminishes. Wingers who are played predominantly out on the wing just don't score 40 odd goals in a season. He spent much of his time up front, or given free licence to roam as a forward while Rooney and Tevez did the donkey work. The team was set up around him, and rightly so because it resulted in us become league and European champions
 
reddevilcanada said:
Ronaldo is a winger not a striker or forward like Messi, so goals really aren't what he's all about, this was especially the case in 06/07. In that season he scored 23 goals which is still a great tally for a winger, plus setting up over 20+ goals. If Messi can score 42 goals this season, then you can say he's a Ronaldo v08, but even then Ronaldo was a winger for much of last season with only a handful of games playing up front as a striker which makes his 07/08 season even more incredible. Messi is the best player on current form though with Dani Alves not far behind.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo played up front for the majority of last season.
 
Escobar said:
Short memory, eh? I dont mind people raving for Messi, but in doing that, Ronaldo's qualities are often underestimated or people simply fail to give Ronaldo adequate ratings. Ronaldo can dribble without any space and get easily past defenders. Messi's dribbling is outstanding, but that doesnt make him the better player. IMO in most other departments, Ronaldo's better than Messi.
Who's the better player? Who knows... Last season clearly Ronaldo, this season clearly Messi
Click to expand...

He can't, but that's hardly a criticism when you consider that only a few players have that ability. Throughout the 06/07 season, Ronaldo was literally amazing when he was given room to work.
 
Brad said:
Have to say, regarding the Ronaldo being mainly on the wing last season, that's absolute nonsense. This season he's spending most of his time out on the wing, and obviously his goal count diminishes. Wingers who are played predominantly out on the wing just don't score 40 odd goals in a season. He spent much of his time up front, or given free licence to roam as a forward while Rooney and Tevez did the donkey work. The team was set up around him, and rightly so because it resulted in us become league and European champions
Click to expand...

This is a myth. He's playing in the exact same position, this season as last.

The only real difference this season is that we very rarely see Rooney out left in a 433, which we used a few times (mainly European aways) last season. We haven't seen it yet anyway.

Otherwise our formation/tactics have been identical, withe Berbatov playing the same position that Tevez did and Ronaldo doing exactly what he did last season, only not as well.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This is a myth. He's playing in the exact same position, this season as last.

The only real difference this season is that we very rarely see Rooney out left in a 433, which we used a few times (mainly European aways) last season. We haven't seen it yet anyway.

Otherwise our formation/tactics have been identical, withe Berbatov playing the same position that Tevez did and Ronaldo doing exactly what he did last season, only not as well.
Click to expand...

Come off it Pogue, he isn't playing the exact same position at all. He's quite evidently been told to play as more of an orthodox winger. Much rarer you'll see him up front while say Rooney and Berbatov have moved out wide, something which was the norm last season
 
Status
Not open for further replies.