You're always good for some info. Skorenzy, much appreciated. You're probably right about Pele in his early Santos years then. I only saw from the QF onwards so I can only comment on that but it didn't look like Orlando was playing as a wing-half at all, although perhaps that's just me misunderstanding the W-M system. One thing I can tell you is that the Wikipedia image is wrong, without a shadow of a doubt. Nilton Santos is famed for being the first attacking fullback, and Bobby Charlton says this of Djalma Santos:
"[He was] the best right-back I ever saw. He was too good to be a full-back, really, he could have played anywhere on the pitch. He always seemed to have so much time on the ball, which is the sign of a really good player.". So it'd have been madness to play them both in a three man defence. Djalma Santos only played in the final though so perhaps they changed to a 424/433 hybrid then. Didi for me simply didn't play that high up the pitch, he was a midfielder for sure. Zagallo spent as much time in the middle as out wide, but that's a relatively minor thing really. FWIW, here's a reference that has Brazil playing 424 -
http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/...he_Tactical_Evolution_of_Brazilian_Soccer.pdf. For me it's not far off how we set up in 06/07, much like the Brazil '70 side.
Well, I have the full game of the Final v Sweden somewhere on my pc and the last time I watched it I remember Didi being indeed maybe not quite as high up as the illustration suggests, but definitely not as deep as centre of midfield when in possession. He would be somewhat behind Vává and Pelé, but often around the opponent's box, with Pelé drifting left and right of Vává. Against France in the semi-final he played deeper (around the centre circle) as he scored a scorcher from distance and his rival Kopa would drop deeper as well.
Nilton and Djalma Santos started off fairly narrow when without the ball, and what they did was certainly revolutionary in those days but they didn't come as high as a modern-day Dani Alves for example (who has also been utilized in back-3s by the way).
Anyway, I'm certain the position of Orlando is key here (for the Final). My guess is that, when in possession he would push up from defence to midfield, which would allow Didi to move up as well, basically leaving a 3-man backline; when they were without the ball they still might have resembled a (2)-1-3 even instead of a flat back four like in your source.
It's very interesting and I think where our accounts differ is on the fact that Feola overhauled his first team after a disappointing group stage game against England and in fear of the strong defense of the USSR. Initially he went with the formation as described in your source (that also indicates Pelé in the CF position, which is where he played from on his first start against the USSR). Against Wales and Sweden it resembled more closely a 3-2-5. Against France probably a 4-2-4/3-4-3.
That's my guess anyway from what I've read and seen.
edit: I've looked up the FIFA All-Star team selections and they use a 3-4-3 for the 1958 WC, so I suppose a midfield of Zito-Didi-Orlando-Zagallo which in the final looked to me as Zagallo quite wide out and high up the pitch, and Didi also higher than normal.
In the 1962 one (a 4-3-3) Zagallo is considered a midfielder.
I'll tell you what it's futile to try and describe a coherent system/formation throughout a prolongued period, because it exists anew every game again.
So a 4-2-4/3-4-3/3-2-5 hybrid it is then?
Depending on who has the ball.
Why do you go off on these tangents so often? They don't offer anything to your argument!
