Lionel Messi

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I think he is saying they never had 3 poor games in a row when all 3 games were title/cup deciders or knock-outs.

I have no idea if that is true or not.

Safe to say it isn't, two goalless draws for Maradona v Spartak Moscow in the European Cup in '91 and going out of the first round of the European Cup in '87 tell us that he didn't have a flawless club career either. Nor Pele when he failed to score v Independiente as they beat Santos home and away in the semis of the Copa Libertadores. No-one did, so using one tiny portion of a players' career to prove any player isn't in the top tier is a pretty stupid point, in truth.
 
The game against Real was hardly a decider. Even if Barcelona won it was still in Madrid's grasp, plus he's been the standout performer in that game for years now.
 
Just wanting others' opinions. If Real go onto win the Champions League, and Ronaldo continues his amazing form into next season will he be in with a shout for the Ballon D'or? Or will Messi still deserve it?
 
Messi is a brilliant player in one of the best teams ever who play for him and rightly so. Ronaldo is a brilliant player in a very good team who try play for him also. Both brilliant but I think anybody saying Messi is greatest ever need to be real at this stage (he might go on and prove to be) but I think there is an argument for Ronaldo to be crowned the best in the world ATM. Both phenomenal regardless.

No there isn't. Messi is easily the best player on the planet, 2 below par games wouldn't change that.
 
Just wanting others' opinions. If Real go onto win the Champions League, and Ronaldo continues his amazing form into next season will he be in with a shout for the Ballon D'or? Or will Messi still deserve it?

Ronaldo would deserve it clearly in my eyes. Kaka won it in 2007 for his performances in the latter stages of the CL almost alone. Milan finished 5th that season in Serie A.

Ronaldo arguably already deserves it. Messi is the most talented player in the World without question but Ronaldo won the battle of La Liga and now has a great opportunity to lead Madrid to glory in the CL.

In a competitve arena players need to be rewarded for success rather than sentiment.
 
Rewarding individuals for team success is a bit daft IMO. I'm no fan of individual trophies anyway but, in an ideal world, they would go to the footballer who has played the best football over the designated period of time.

I'm not even sure what time-frame the Ballon D'Or covers but Messi's been the best player on the planet this season. If the award is for the season coming to an end he'd be the deserved winner, irrespective of the relative success of Madrid and Barca.
 
Ronaldo would deserve it clearly in my eyes. Kaka won it in 2007 for his performances in the latter stages of the CL almost alone. Milan finished 5th that season in Serie A.

Ronaldo arguably already deserves it. Messi is the most talented player in the World without question but Ronaldo won the battle of La Liga and now has a great opportunity to lead Madrid to glory in the CL.

In a competitve arena players need to be rewarded for success rather than sentiment.

I would agree with you. Messi may be the better player, but Ronaldo may achieve a League and Champions League double with him contributing probably around 60 goals. Surely that would mean he has had the better year as a player and his exceptional form with the medals he may get would mean I reckon he would deserve it.
 
Madrid won the battle of La Liga not Ronaldo, Messi's bettered him in almost every way in the league and CL. If Ronaldo can go on to put in a couple of fantastic, eye-catching performances in the semi tonight and the final then that might be enough but he's hardly lit up the Champions League in the way Kaka did in '07. In fact Benzema's arguably been even better than Ronaldo in the CL this year while Messi's clearly been Barca's best player in it. Messi's scored almost half of Barca's CL goals this year, Ronaldo's scored a quarter. Benzema's scored one goal less but has the most assists in the CL and from what I've seen has been the more impressive performer. That can change in the next two games but it seems unlikely given how few outstanding performances we've seen from Ronaldo for Madrid when it really counts.

Messi's still been better though.
 
Rewarding individuals for team success is a bit daft IMO. I'm no fan of individual trophies anyway but, in an ideal world, they would go to the footballer who has played the best football over the designated period of time.

I'm not even sure what time-frame the Ballon D'Or covers but Messi's been the best player on the planet this season. If the award is for the season coming to an end he'd be the deserved winner, irrespective of the relative success of Madrid and Barca.

It may seem daft, but I think it is a major factor in where the award goes. You just need to look at players like Cannavaro (WC winner) or Kaka, as already mentioned, who won the Champions League. There was also many people who believed that Wesley Sneijder should have got it in 2010 having won the lot.
 
It may seem daft, but I think it is a major factor in where the award goes. You just need to look at players like Cannavaro (WC winner) or Kaka, as already mentioned, who won the Champions League. There was also many people who believed that Wesley Sneijder should have got it in 2010 having won the lot.

Oh don't get me wrong. It's definitely a factor. I just think it's a stupid factor. Like I said, I don't have any time for individual trophies in a team sport but if they are going to hand them out they should be for how talented the individual is. Which has nothing to do with how good/succesful his team-mates are.
 
Messi is a brilliant player in one of the best teams ever who play for him and rightly so. Ronaldo is a brilliant player in a very good team who try play for him also. Both brilliant but I think anybody saying Messi is greatest ever need to be real at this stage (he might go on and prove to be) but I think there is an argument for Ronaldo to be crowned the best in the world ATM. Both phenomenal regardless.

There could be. If Messi breaks Muller's scoring record I think he has to win it though. That's a feat that no one thought was ever going to be broken.
 
Oh don't get me wrong. It's definitely a factor. I just think it's a stupid factor. Like I said, I don't have any time for individual trophies in a team sport but if they are going to hand them out they should be for how talented the individual is. Which has nothing to do with how good/succesful his team-mates are.

Fair point. The award is for the best player in the world that year, and Messi has probably been consistently the best. I just think if Madrid win the double and he keeps scoring, there will be a lot of calls for Ronaldo to get it. However, I agree. The team success factor is definitely over-valued and individual awards do take away from the other players in the team. Would Messi really be as good as he was if it wasn't for players like Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets, and the others in the team? It does take recognition away from them and it is made out that Messi is Barcelona.

I personally believe that Ronaldo should get it if the win the League and CL.
 
Rewarding individuals for team success is a bit daft IMO. I'm no fan of individual trophies anyway but, in an ideal world, they would go to the footballer who has played the best football over the designated period of time.

I'm not even sure what time-frame the Ballon D'Or covers but Messi's been the best player on the planet this season. If the award is for the season coming to an end he'd be the deserved winner, irrespective of the relative success of Madrid and Barca.

Really Pogue

The two big competitions are the domestic league and the Champions League.

Ronaldo has out scored Messi in La Liga so far, incidentally Ronaldo has broken the Spanish record for away goals scored in La Liga this year where as the majority of Messi's came in the Nou Camp. Add to that Ronaldo scoring the decisive goal in the biggest league match of the year last weekend so it is entirely fair to say that Ronaldo has been better than Messi in the league, the bread and butter competition for every footballer.

Messi has had a great CL campaign breaking scoring records but the fact of the matter is that he went missing, by his standards, against Chelsea and missed a absolutely crucial penalty.

If Ronaldo, who is what eight or so goals behind Messi for the season, puts in decisive performances tonight and in the final, then I can't for the life of me think why Messi would deserve the Ballon D'Or over Ronaldo.

Football at the elite level is about winning trophies, about prevailing when the pressure is at it greatest. This should be the criteria for the Ballon D'Or not scoring shit loads of goals in home league games
 
Oh don't get me wrong. It's definitely a factor. I just think it's a stupid factor. Like I said, I don't have any time for individual trophies in a team sport but if they are going to hand them out they should be for how talented the individual is. Which has nothing to do with how good/succesful his team-mates are.
You can't hand out trophies for talent, it has to be based on performance.

And while you do have a point that an individual's performance should not be defined by team's, it is not strictly correct. Performing in a crunch match does elevate a performance of an individual as does helping his team win trophies. Messi scoring 4 goals against Chelsea in a group match and 4 in a semi final carry different significance. That single Zidane volley in 2002 CL final elevated his season to a different level.
On whole I do think so far Messi had had a better season that Ronaldo or anyone else on the planet. But Ronaldo can legitimately overtake if he scores in Madrid's crucial matches and/or Portugal's matches in Euros.
 
Madrid won the battle of La Liga not Ronaldo, Messi's bettered him in almost every way in the league and CL. If Ronaldo can go on to put in a couple of fantastic, eye-catching performances in the semi tonight and the final then that might be enough but he's hardly lit up the Champions League in the way Kaka did in '07. In fact Benzema's arguably been even better than Ronaldo in the CL this year while Messi's clearly been Barca's best player in it. Messi's scored almost half of Barca's CL goals this year, Ronaldo's scored a quarter. Benzema's scored one goal less but has the most assists in the CL and from what I've seen has been the more impressive performer. That can change in the next two games but it seems unlikely given how few outstanding performances we've seen from Ronaldo for Madrid when it really counts.

Messi's still been better though.
Just CL does not count. Ronaldo has been Madrid's best player this season. Messi has been better so far, yes but that can change in coming weeks.

Also you or one will never count Ronaldo having an outstanding performance simply because he is not going to dominate as much as Messi. That is never gonna happen but he has scored a lot of goals for Real at crucial times.
 
Also you or one will never count Ronaldo having an outstanding performance simply because he is not going to dominate as much as Messi. That is never gonna happen but he has scored a lot of goals for Real at crucial times.

That does make a differerence though. Your argument can basically be rephrased as "You need to cut Ronaldo some slack in these comparisons because his game is more limited."

No one ever chided Zidane for not being a great goalscorer because he brought so much else to the game. Messi is an amazing goalscorer but he also brings a lot of what someone like Zidane did to the game and Ronaldo simply doesn't. That is something that sets Messi apart but is easy to overlook in the face of their phenomenal goalscoring records.
 
Really Pogue

The two big competitions are the domestic league and the Champions League.

Ronaldo has out scored Messi in La Liga so far, incidentally Ronaldo has broken the Spanish record for away goals scored in La Liga this year where as the majority of Messi's came in the Nou Camp. Add to that Ronaldo scoring the decisive goal in the biggest league match of the year last weekend so it is entirely fair to say that Ronaldo has been better than Messi in the league, the bread and butter competition for every footballer.

Messi has had a great CL campaign breaking scoring records but the fact of the matter is that he went missing, by his standards, against Chelsea and missed a absolutely crucial penalty.

If Ronaldo, who is what eight or so goals behind Messi for the season, puts in decisive performances tonight and in the final, then I can't for the life of me think why Messi would deserve the Ballon D'Or over Ronaldo.

Football at the elite level is about winning trophies, about prevailing when the pressure is at it greatest. This should be the criteria for the Ballon D'Or not scoring shit loads of goals in home league games

He hasn't though. Messi is the better footballer of the two. Goal-scoring aside you just need to watch them both play to appreciate who's the better player.

I don't think you'd get a single football fan anywhere on the planet who'd say different, other than Madrid fans and (some) United fans who still hold a torch for Ronaldo.
 
I don't think you'd get a single football fan anywhere on the planet who'd say different, other than Madrid fans and (some) United fans who still hold a torch for Ronaldo.

That's really not true Pogue. I know a fair few non-United, non-Madrid, non-Portuguese football fans that prefer Ronaldo's style of play/flair etc.

imo, if Real win the double, Ronaldo has been the best player in the World this year.
 
Just CL does not count. Ronaldo has been Madrid's best player this season. Messi has been better so far, yes but that can change in coming weeks.

Also you or one will never count Ronaldo having an outstanding performance simply because he is not going to dominate as much as Messi. That is never gonna happen but he has scored a lot of goals for Real at crucial times.

He'll never dominate but he can do more than score a lot of goals, and if he can't then he doesn't deserve the Ballon D'or because he can't influence the game to the same degree. Otherwise you might as well just give the Ballon D'or to the player who won the Golden Boot. It seems really obvious to me that so far Messi's been more influential for his team in both competitions, for Jimmy to say Ronaldo's been better in the league simply because of one fecking goal is madness, for me. Let's see what he does tonight because he was just as bad if not worse than Messi in his semi-final, and it really wouldn't surprise me to see Benzema out-perform him again while they go out. If he does turn it around single-handedly in the CL then fair fecks to him. If Madrid win the CL with him being one of their better players without being a standout player then I don't think he has a chance.
 
That's really not true Pogue. I know a fair few non-United, non-Madrid, non-Portuguese football fans that prefer Ronaldo's style of play/flair etc.

imo, if Real win the double, Ronaldo has been the best player in the World this year.

Wow. Have to say I'm surprised by that. Every single person I know who plays/follows football has Messi down as comfortably the better player of the two.
 
That's really not true Pogue. I know a fair few non-United, non-Madrid, non-Portuguese football fans that prefer Ronaldo's style of play/flair etc.

imo, if Real win the double, Ronaldo has been the best player in the World this year.

Strange. Pretty much every football fan I know hates Ronny.

I mean they even hated him when he was playing for us.

Not to mention that Ronny gets booed in several stadiums across the globe when ever he touches the ball.

That should speak volumes of how much people hate him for no other reason then the way he acts on the field.

Never saw that happen to Messi somehow.
 
That does make a differerence though. Your argument can basically be rephrased as "You need to cut Ronaldo some slack in these comparisons because his game is more limited."

No one ever chided Zidane for not being a great goalscorer because he brought so much else to the game. Messi is an amazing goalscorer but he also brings a lot of what someone like Zidane did to the game and Ronaldo simply doesn't. That is something that sets Messi apart but is easy to overlook in the face of their phenomenal goalscoring records.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. But people seemed to have put too much emphasis on an individual helping his team dominate a match. Fat Ronaldo never really helped his team dominate a match, he was just about spreading pure carnage in opposition's defence. Did he help in build play, track back or link up with his team mates as much as Messi? No, not even close. Yet he was most definitely the best player for quite some time and for a lot of people better than Zidane. Ronaldo is the same as his namesake. Does that count against him? Yes. But not to such an extent and some make it out to be. At the end of the day, he scored the winner for Madrid which would probably win them the league. Not counting numerous others which came at a crucial time for them.
 
He'll never dominate but he can do more than score a lot of goals, and if he can't then he doesn't deserve the Ballon D'or because he can't influence the game to the same degree. Otherwise you might as well just give the Ballon D'or to the player who won the Golden Boot. It seems really obvious to me that so far Messi's been more influential for his team in both competitions, for Jimmy to say Ronaldo's been better in the league simply because of one fecking goal is madness, for me. Let's see what he does tonight because he was just as bad if not worse than Messi in his semi-final, and it really wouldn't surprise me to see Benzema out-perform him again while they go out. If he does turn it around single-handedly in the CL then fair fecks to him. If Madrid win the CL with him being one of their better players without being a standout player then I don't think he has a chance.
Why does he have to do more? Because you want him to be like Messi?

Did Fat Ronaldo had to do anything more than score goals? Was he asked to possess great passing ability as well? Or is it the fact goals born our of dribbling become automatically better than than 30 yard strikes?

He has a role in the Madrid team which he plays beyond perfection. He made the winning goal the other day look ridiculously easy when it was anything but. He has scored plenty of times for Madrid this season when they needed an equalizer or a winner. That is all that matters to him or is asked of him.

He is not going to be a dribbling maestro or a very good passer like Messi. Does that count in favour of Messi? Yes ofcourse. Hence why I have said Messi is better than him and has had the better season. But Ronaldo does not and can not be measure in terms of what Messi has and he does not. If Ronaldo scores winning goals for Madrid in their coming crucial matches irrespective of him doing anything else, a valid argument can be made for him to win the player of the year award.
 
Fat Ronaldo was a fantastic playmaking striker as well...so yeah he did more than score.
 
He hasn't though. Messi is the better footballer of the two. Goal-scoring aside you just need to watch them both play to appreciate who's the better player.

I don't think you'd get a single football fan anywhere on the planet who'd say different, other than Madrid fans and (some) United fans who still hold a torch for Ronaldo.

I am not talking about who is the 'better' or more 'talented. I am talking about who deserves the Ballon D'Or.

Ronaldo has out scored Messi in the league, surprisingly Messi only has a couple more assists than Ronaldo in the league this year and Ronaldo has broken the record for away goals in La Liga this year. Barca's, at times, limp away form was where they lost the title this year. Where was Messi then? Add to that Ronaldo's decisive goal in essentially the title decider and I think that I have a fair amount of evidence to propose that Ronaldo has been better in the league this year.

Sure Messi gets on the ball more than Ronaldo but that is partly because he plays in a team that enjoys more possession than any other team that has ever existed.

Messi's style is more aesthetically pleasing and on his day he is much better than Ronaldo but that isn't the criteria for winning the Ballon D'Or.

for Jimmy to say Ronaldo's been better in the league simply because of one fecking goal is madness, for me

I didn't say that exactly but you are correct, I perceive that Ronaldo has had a better league season. I think that your refusal to entertain the idea that Ronaldo has been better in La Liga is 'madness'.

Now my original point is that Ronaldo has an opportunity to win the Ballon D'Or if he proves decisive in a Champions League victory for Real Madrid rather than he should be awarded it now regardless.

I don't think that Ronaldo will win the award even if he does prove to be decisive in the Champions League. Different rules seem to apply for Messi, if he doesn't play well it is an injury, the squad isn't talented enough, Barca don't have enough strikers, Guardiola is crumbling under pressure or it is Maradona's managerial ineptitude that is to blame.
 
Just to clarify, people you know - who have no affiliation with United, Portugal or Madrid - actually think Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi?

Yeah a few. I know plenty more that prefer Messi, but the idea that no-one thinks Ronaldo is better is a little narrow-minded. A fair few of the flair turkish players I know playing here in Sweden think Ronaldo is a God.
 
Fat Ronaldo was a fantastic playmaking striker as well...so yeah he did more than score.
Not at the level of Messi.. he was not. Ofcourse he was a monster of a dribbler. Ronaldo too is no Ruud and has some number of assist to his name. Regardless the main point was Fat Ronaldo was never one of those players who helped his team as a whole to dominate. Match Winner he was, just like Ron.
 
Not at the level of Messi.. he was not. Ofcourse he was a monster of a dribbler. Ronaldo too is no Ruud and has some number of assist to his name. Regardless the main point was Fat Ronaldo was never one of those players who helped his team as a whole to dominate. Match Winner he was, just like Ron.

I always felt that Ronnies game got less and less exciting over the years and he now has reached a point where he really looks much more like a full grown poacher like Ruud then like the type of striker that young Luiz Ronaldo was.

He barely does those great dribbling anymore or one of his amazing long distance shots.

It feels like he has pretty much discarded all the "show" elements of his game in pursuit of more effectiveness.

In itself that isn't a bad thing but I find it less inspiring to watch the Ronny of 2012 play then let's say the Ronny of 2007/08.
 
I always felt that Ronnies game got less and less exciting over the years and he now has reached a point where he really looks much more like a full grown poacher like Ruud then like the type of striker that young Luiz Ronaldo was.

He barely does those great dribbling anymore or one of his amazing long distance shots.

It feels like he has pretty much discarded all the "show" elements of his game in pursuit of more effectiveness.

In itself that isn't a bad thing but I find it less inspiring to watch the Ronny of 2012 play then let's say the Ronny of 2007/08.
Errm he has score plenty of long range efforts for Real this season, some of them better than many he scored for us. I reckon those who think his goals this season has been about poaching , have not actually watched him this season.
 
Surely the Ballon D'or is equally a reflection of achievements in a season than just quality of player? Messi is the better player and always will be, but do we award him the trophy every year?
 
Why does he have to do more? Because you want him to be like Messi?

Did Fat Ronaldo had to do anything more than score goals? Was he asked to possess great passing ability as well? Or is it the fact goals born our of dribbling become automatically better than than 30 yard strikes?

He has a role in the Madrid team which he plays beyond perfection. He made the winning goal the other day look ridiculously easy when it was anything but. He has scored plenty of times for Madrid this season when they needed an equalizer or a winner. That is all that matters to him or is asked of him.

He is not going to be a dribbling maestro or a very good passer like Messi. Does that count in favour of Messi? Yes ofcourse. Hence why I have said Messi is better than him and has had the better season. But Ronaldo does not and can not be measure in terms of what Messi has and he does not. If Ronaldo scores winning goals for Madrid in their coming crucial matches irrespective of him doing anything else, a valid argument can be made for him to win the player of the year award.

Brazilian Ronaldo's quality of goals was consistently at a higher level than that of Ronaldo's and yes he contributed more to opening up the opposition defence through his ball-carrying and passing than Ronaldo. He didn't influence the play as much as Messi but a lot more than Ronaldo, and he did it against superior defenders. I've never once said Ronaldo needs to dominate the game in the way Messi does but that doesn't mean he can't influence it more in his own way. Brazilian Ronaldo was the best in the world despite not influencing the play in the way Zidane did because Zidane didn't score half as many goals. Messi scores as much and influences the play more and if he was playing in the same era the same criticisms or scrutiny would be applied to him in the way it is to Ronaldo.

If Ronaldo's scoring a similar amount of goals but influencing the game less then I can't see how he can be voted the best player, unless he's doing it against better opposition or scoring better goals...and he's doing neither. And dribbling is a big plus, yes, as Rene Meulensteen says:

"I'm just a very strong believer in [the idea that dribbling is the key element] because the best players out there in the world - past and present - have given us that information. If you go back in time to George Best, Johan Cruyff and Diego Maradona ... they've got the ability to take players on and beat them. It's not only important for the team, it's very exciting for the game itself."
 
Errm he has score plenty of long range efforts for Real this season, some of them better than many he scored for us. I reckon those who think his goals this season has been about poaching , have not actually watched him this season.

Exactly, he has scored a fair few long rangers and free-kicks. Just look at the game against Atletico. 2 stunning goals, in one game.

I'd also agree with the point that the award should not be based on just a players quality. Messi would get the trophy every single year, even in Barca weren't getting results.
 
Errm he has score plenty of long range efforts for Real this season, some of them better than many he scored for us. I reckon those who think his goals this season has been about poaching , have not actually watched him this season.

I have watched quite a few games of Real this season but most of the time never saw anything special from him.

I would probably have to rewatch all of his goals again to get a clearer picture of him but the first half of the season goal collection pretty much confirms what I'm felt.

Out of the 25 goals only that one long range shot towards the end really stands out imo.

Might be he got some better ones during the second half of the season but I can't quite remember any goal that really made a lasting impression on me.

 
Brazilian Ronaldo's quality of goals was consistently at a higher level than that of Ronaldo's and yes he contributed more to opening up the opposition defence through his ball-carrying and passing than Ronaldo. He didn't influence the play as much as Messi but a lot more than Ronaldo, and he did it against superior defenders. I've never once said Ronaldo needs to dominate the game in the way Messi does but that doesn't mean he can't influence it more in his own way. Brazilian Ronaldo was the best in the world despite not influencing the play in the way Zidane did because Zidane didn't score half as many goals. Messi scores as much and influences the play more and if he was playing in the same era the same criticisms or scrutiny would be applied to him in the way it is to Ronaldo.

If Ronaldo's scoring a similar amount of goals but influencing the game less then I can't see how he can be voted the best player, unless he's doing it against better opposition or scoring better goals...and he's doing neither. And dribbling is a big plus, yes, as Rene Meulensteen says:
Fat Ron's passing was not all that, better than Ronaldo but not that much. But then CR's crossing is better than Fat Ron. Fat Ron is still the better play for me but it is gonna change if Ron keep up his numbers.

The quality of goals argument is flawed since it based on an individual's perception. Some may find a 25 yard dribble leading to a goal better while some may prefer a super strike from 25 yards.

Another way to look at is if Ronaldo relying on his strengths has a punt from 30 yards and does not get get a goal, it is labelled a wasted effort. While if Messi relying on his strengths goes on a super dribble and can not convert, it is still lauded as a good play. I understand why that is since going past player is intrinsically seen as a best thing you can do in football and is most definitely more aesthetically pleasing. But objectively there is no difference between the two.

As far as quality of defences go. The best defensive unit Messi faced this season, he failed to score against. Against the same side he has not scored in 8 matches. Does that suddenly undermine his stats throughout the season? Or was that just put forward to undermine Ronaldo's given they play in the same league and face the same opposition?

In any case my main point is that the stats Ron has pulled for Madrid, it is ridiculous on may levels to say that he has not been dominant for them And all the goals are from poachers' one as some have assumed without watching. He already has some crucial goals under his belt and could add more. Messi on the other hand in his best ever season (in which he was better than Ronaldo) has unfortunately has had a serious blip in the most crucial stage. This IMO has given the Ronaldo to overtake him since helping your team achieve its objectives for the season does add more weight-age to your performances.
 
The whole way we judge players is based on an individual's perception, that's why people spend so much time talking about it...Messi beating four men and hitting it wide is better than Ronaldo hitting it wide from 40 yards because it displays more skill, it's more aesthetically pleasing and it's more entertaining. That's my opinion, there's no objectivity needed. The best players of all time have almost all been great dribblers, much more so than those who are outstanding strikers of the ball from range, and there's a reason for that. It requires more skill and it's better to watch.

As for the quality of defences I just meant that if Ronaldo was playing against a considerably higher level of defensive play than Messi and was scoring at a similar rate then that'd make Ronaldo's achievements more impressive, naturally. Like comparing Messi's stats to Ronaldo's while at Inter for example - he might've scored less but he did so against better defences. That can't be said of Cristiano Ronaldo.

I can't see any argument for Ronaldo deserving it at this stage, if he does have an outstanding Euros or finish to the CL then who knows maybe I'll agree he's had the better season.
 
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