Lionel Messi

[Siorac]

So you think the 2010 world cup team that struggled to beat almost every team in the competition can win a 38 game competition against the current Real madrid side? Or beat United in the CL final? IMO I don't think so.

Honestly, IMO he is THE difference between Barcelona and Mardid right now, and in almost every game they've played since 2009. Do you think david villa or fabregas could have walked the ball into the net in the CL Semi finals last season? I certainly dont. We will never know, but had that moment not happen, madrid could well have been on their 10th CL title by now.

They'd have a very, very difficult job against the current Madrid side, certainly - but they'd still dominate every game, they'd still have the best midfield in the world and would still have an attacking trio that rivals that of most top teams.

And the 2010 World Cup team, while struggling to beat every team, still beat every team with the exception of Switzerland. Even with a woefully poor Torres in the side up until the semis, I think.

Barcelona would be a less formidable team without Messi, for sure, they wouldn't be head and shoulders above everyone else as they are now and, if we talk about last season, they might not have won the semi-final against Madrid but you cannot know that for certain and we must not forget that Real looked very, very unlikely to score - on their own ground. That wasn't down to Messi. And Messi's absence wouldn't have stopped Xavi and Iniesta from running rings around United in the final. They'd just have to adapt and that adaptation period might be hard but look at their squad without Messi and tell me it "wouldn't stand a chance".

 

[kietotheworld]

Very easily. By watching him play football. It's really not difficult to see that what he brings to the team is much much more than a familiarity with the way Barca play football. I mean, come on.

Yeah, of course he brings a lot to the team, but how do you separate his effectiveness as a player from the effectiveness of the system? He does some awesome things, and I love to watch him, but he's afforded a lot more opportunity to do those things by the team that he's in and the advantage in possession that they hold.

Do you think he'd be as effective in a poorer side? Let's say we swapped him for Rooney in the Summer, do you think he would be as effective for us, even after a year or two years, assuming we stay around the same?

You don't need to analyse the teams they play in to know that rooney is a better player than adebayor, despite the latter playing in inferior teams over the years.

As for the argument in bold, how can where he got his football education be a slight on how good he is?!

I think you do need to look at the teams they're in. A forward is limited in how good he can be by the service receives, and receives perhaps the best service of any player in history. It's no wonder he scores a shitload of goals.

And it's not a slight on him, at all. It's a compliment to the superb system that Barcelona have built, and a recognition that he benefits from that system. He would have to be a pretty terrible player not to benefit from that system.

 

[Inspectah deck]

They'd have a very, very difficult job against the current Madrid side, certainly - but they'd still dominate every game, they'd still have the best midfield in the world and would still have an attacking trio that rivals that of most top teams.

And the 2010 World Cup team, while struggling to beat every team, still beat every team with the exception of Switzerland. Even with a woefully poor Torres in the side up until the semis, I think.

Barcelona would be a less formidable team without Messi, for sure, they wouldn't be head and shoulders above everyone else as they are now and, if we talk about last season, they might not have won the semi-final against Madrid but you cannot know that for certain and we must not forget that Real looked very, very unlikely to score - on their own ground. That wasn't down to Messi. And Messi's absence wouldn't have stopped Xavi and Iniesta from running rings around United in the final. They'd just have to adapt and that adaptation period might be hard but look at their squad without Messi and tell me it "wouldn't stand a chance".

That is enough for madrid to usurp them, which is the point I was making. The 2010 winning team didn't look convincing to me at all, and since we're speaking of hypotheticals, I don't think such a team will be consistent enough to beat a team like Madrid in a title race, it is of my belief that madrid will finish above that side comforably, Hence "no chance".

 

[Inspectah deck]

Yeah, of course he brings a lot to the team, but how do you separate his effectiveness as a player from the effectiveness of the system? He does some awesome things, and I love to watch him, but he's afforded a lot more opportunity to do those things by the team that he's in and the advantage in possession that they hold.

Do you think he'd be as effective in a poorer side? Let's say we swapped him for Rooney in the Summer, do you think he would be as effective for us, even after a year or two years, assuming we stay around the same?

I think you do need to look at the teams they're in. A forward is limited in how good he can be by the service receives, and receives perhaps the best service of any player in history. It's no wonder he scores a shitload of goals.

And it's not a slight on him, at all. It's a compliment to the superb system that Barcelona have built, and a recognition that he benefits from that system. He would have to be a pretty terrible player not to benefit from that system.

Why do you keep banging on about goals/service? The same player also assisted 24 goals last season, with david villa missing loads of sitters in the process, and provided 10 assists in 11 games for argentina in the same period. At Barca he "serviced" the team with his assists, more than xavi, iniesta and busquets combined.

And if you are talking about posession, on average he is usually the third-fourth highest passer in the team so he IS a major reason they have as much posession.

I just pointed you to a statistic that showed he made 100 passes in the biggest match in club football, 50 more than any united player on the pitch. He isn't inzaghi that sits around the 6 yard box waiting for the ball to be passed to him FFS ​

 

[Varun]

That's not interesting.. That will be the saddest thing that could happen to football..

What some people/haters don't realize is how lucky we are to have a player like him to watch every week.. It's beyond being a fan.. People who lived in Maradona's era will never forget how good he was.. Even people who weren't Argentine, or Napoli fans, because they love football, and it doesn't get any better than when Maradona or Messi is doing it.

I don't care about how Barcelona will look like without Messi, or these stupid theories and arguments that are directed (mostly) by jealousy or hate, and aimed (desperately) at proving that Messi isn't "that good"..

If you don't think Messi is good and you don't enjoy watching him play, or you think that Van Persie is as good, then fine. Don't watch him play, go watch Van Persie play instead..

Besides, this whole "what will Barcelona do without Messi" is just pointless. You know why? Because Brazil won the world cup in 1962 WITHOUT Pele. SO? What did that prove?? Pele isn't a great player because he had his teammates to thank for what he won?? Because his teammates proved they can do it without him?? This is absurd. Nobody is perfect. Nobody.. Maradona didn't win the champions league. Pele didn't play in Europe. Messi didn't win the world cup (yet). And people will always find excuses to try to diminish a player that they don't like.. EVEN if Messi was injured and Barcelona collapse, that won't shut the haters up. It will only deprive us (the real football fans) of the joy of watching this unique phenomenon every week.. And that will NEVER be interesting for me.

I remember you from the newbies. Not even surprised.

 

[Inspectah deck]

For what it's worth, I do think the point often made about him needing to step up his International performances before he can be compared to maradona and pele (and zidane to a lesser extent) is a valid one. As far as the current generation goes though, IMO he has little else to prove.

 

[kouroux]

So how do you separate the player and the system? For me, it is extremely difficult to separate them. A lot of people say he has to perform for Argentina, he has to drag them to a World Cup, because it's that that defines a player, I don't necessarily agree with that, but what he has to do for me to be comfortable in saying he is the greatest ever player is do it for a team who is not completely dominant. That might be Argentina, it might be another club, or it might be Barcelona when they drop down a few levels.

I don't even think about seperating him from the Barca system.He's an integral part of it, would Barca still be able to play the same type of football without him ? Spain is the answer but does Messi make the tiki-taka system even better ? The answer is obviously yes.
I honestly don't care about international football as the level has generally decreased from the Maradona days for instance, club football and specially Champions league football is where it's at.
However if he can perform and help Argentina win a tournament (world cup or copa america) that would shut up many of his unfair critics.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

On the Argentina thing, the caftard best placed to comment is marcosdeto, who is not only Argentinian but old enough to have actually watched Maradonna's team play (unlike most on here). He's adamant that it was actually a very good team. Man for man much better than the side Messi played for, which has been further hindered by crap management.

The implication that any one individual player should be able to turn his international team into world-beaters is fundamentally flawed IMO. Far too many other variables. It's also notable that the only other player in the game today who is anywhere near as talented as Messi is also a member of a consistently mediocre international team. Doesn't make him any less of a talent though.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It's a total myth that the Argentine teams Messi have been in had inferior personnel to the ones Maradona played in. This current side doesn't suffer from inferior players. Players like Messi rather just simply don't consistently pull their weight. The issue just gets compounded when the managers are nutty.

 

[Bryan_Munich]

That's not interesting.. That will be the saddest thing that could happen to football..

What some people/haters don't realize is how lucky we are to have a player like him to watch every week.. It's beyond being a fan.. People who lived in Maradona's era will never forget how good he was.. Even people who weren't Argentine, or Napoli fans, because they love football, and it doesn't get any better than when Maradona or Messi is doing it.

I don't care about how Barcelona will look like without Messi, or these stupid theories and arguments that are directed (mostly) by jealousy or hate, and aimed (desperately) at proving that Messi isn't "that good"..

If you don't think Messi is good and you don't enjoy watching him play, or you think that Van Persie is as good, then fine. Don't watch him play, go watch Van Persie play instead..

Besides, this whole "what will Barcelona do without Messi" is just pointless. You know why? Because Brazil won the world cup in 1962 WITHOUT Pele. SO? What did that prove?? Pele isn't a great player because he had his teammates to thank for what he won?? Because his teammates proved they can do it without him?? This is absurd. Nobody is perfect. Nobody.. Maradona didn't win the champions league. Pele didn't play in Europe. Messi didn't win the world cup (yet). And people will always find excuses to try to diminish a player that they don't like.. EVEN if Messi was injured and Barcelona collapse, that won't shut the haters up. It will only deprive us (the real football fans) of the joy of watching this unique phenomenon every week.. And that will NEVER be interesting for me.

I was speaking hypothetically, entertaining rant all the same.

 

[peterstorey]

It's a total myth that the Argentine teams Messi have been in had inferior personnel to the ones Maradona played in. This current side doesn't suffer from inferior players. Players like Messi rather just simply don't consistently pull their weight. The issue just gets compounded when the managers are nutty.

No defence, no goalkeeper
- no contest v Argentina 1986.

 

[2Bullish]

That's delusion, I'm afraid.

Valdés; Alves, Piqué, Puyol, Abidal; Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta; Pedro, Villa, Sánchez

This is still better than any first XI we can field and they'd have Fábregas on the bench... Spain are obviously a lot better than any national team at the moment and they don't have Messi. Messi is the best player in the world, the crowning jewel of Barcelona and they have a system designed to get the best out of him but with their current squad they could adapt to playing without him, even if it might mean a period of slightly less than inspiring performances.

And the "had we kept Ronaldo" theory falls down with the Rome final.

Rubbish, you cannot take that game as defining Ronaldos role in our team. With Ronaldo, the team plays better, with Messi, Barcelona plays better. This is not football manager on your xbox.

With Ronaldo, we would have had a comparable, if not better attack. Certainly a better defense because I believe Barcelonas defense to be weaker than ours (so you can take half that list out already) and they a better midfield, all in all a comparable team. Which is what I said.

 

[Siorac]

Rubbish, you cannot take that game as defining Ronaldos role in our team. With Ronaldo, the team plays better, with Messi, Barcelona plays better. This is not football manager on your xbox.

With Ronaldo, we would have had a comparable, if not better attack. Certainly a better defense because I believe Barcelonas defense to be weaker than ours (so you can take half that list out already) and they a better midfield, all in all a comparable team. Which is what I said.

Well, if that's what you mean by comparable... they are comparable to Wigan, too: they have a better attack, midfield, defence, keeper and manager. But still, comparable.

Ronaldo sure did not make our team play better in Rome and they wiped the floor with us. The attack with Ronaldo and Tévez and Berbatov and Rooney scored 68 league goals in 2008/09, if one game is not enough.

And Ronaldo is good at winning games on his own, creating chances out of nothing and finishing moves but he does not really make the TEAM play better, or not on a scale comparable to Messi or even Rooney. Keeping Ronaldo would not have solved our midfield issues, would not have stopped Ferdinand's injuries - believe me, they would still be a lot better than us, even if we had Ronaldo.

 

[Brwned]

Well, if that's what you mean by comparable... they are comparable to Wigan, too: they have a better attack, midfield, defence, keeper and manager. But still, comparable.

Ronaldo sure did not make our team play better in Rome and they wiped the floor with us. The attack with Ronaldo and Tévez and Berbatov and Rooney scored 68 league goals in 2008/09, if one game is not enough.

And Ronaldo is good at winning games on his own, creating chances out of nothing and finishing moves but he does not really make the TEAM play better, or not on a scale comparable to Messi or even Rooney. Keeping Ronaldo would not have solved our midfield issues, would not have stopped Ferdinand's injuries - believe me, they would still be a lot better than us, even if we had Ronaldo.

I love these kind of statements, worded with such certainty, such unshakeable belief.

 

[B20]

I love these kind of statements, worded with such certainty, such unshakeable belief.

It's because it's a bit of a no-brainer, Brwned. You have never been as good as this Barca team. Few teams in history have.

 

[Brwned]

This Barca team minus Messi's a different team though, surely? And that's what was being discussed...a team with Ronaldo in our team and Messi not existing, I don't think it's a no-brainer. Without giving it any thought they'd probably still beat us, I reckon, but it just seemed ironic that he was having a chuckle at someone for having belief in an opinion that wasn't clear-cut, and then later that day did the same thing himself...

 

[B20]

This Barca team minus Messi's a different team though, surely? And that's what was being discussed...a team with Ronaldo in our team and Messi not existing, I don't think it's a no-brainer. Without giving it any thought they'd probably still beat us, I reckon, but it just seemed ironic that he was having a chuckle at someone for having belief in an opinion that wasn't clear-cut, and then later that day did the same thing himself...

Ah, hadn't caught the 'no messi' part. Yeah they'd still beat you I reckon, but wouldn't be as clear cut.

The thing about those adding up 'better defense + equal[-ish] attack = parity!' aren't really considering that they will win the midfield battle and overwhelmingly so. They play every game on their own premises.

 

[Siorac]

This Barca team minus Messi's a different team though, surely? And that's what was being discussed...a team with Ronaldo in our team and Messi not existing, I don't think it's a no-brainer. Without giving it any thought they'd probably still beat us, I reckon, but it just seemed ironic that he was having a chuckle at someone for having belief in an opinion that wasn't clear-cut, and then later that day did the same thing himself...

Oh, is that the case? I seem to be losing the thread of this discussion then. I thought he said we would have had a comparable team if we had kept Ronaldo, full stop.

If it's Barca without Messi against United with Ronaldo... certainly a lot closer. They would still have more quality though, in my opinion.

 

[Brwned]

Ah, hadn't caught the 'no messi' part. Yeah they'd still beat you I reckon, but wouldn't be as clear cut.

The thing about those adding up 'better defense + equal[-ish] attack = parity!' aren't really considering that they will win the midfield battle and overwhelmingly so. They play every game on their own premises.

While true, that's not the be all and end all as we saw in the two games 08'. Yes, they've improved since as a team and they're even better with their ball retention, but Messi's made the difference against us both times. And they had more possession against us at the Camp Nou in 08' than in either of the finals (and more possession at OT in 08' than the final in 09').

 

[B20]

While true, that's not the be all and end all as we saw in the two games 08'. Yes, they've improved since as a team and they're even better with their ball retention, but Messi's made the difference against us both times. And they had more possession against us at the Camp Nou in 08' than in either of the finals (and more possession at OT in 08' than the final in 09').

I don't really think there is a valid comparison to be made there. The team you played in 08 was one coming to the end of its cycle, underperforming and looking altogether disillusioned not in the least due to the sorry performances of its star players Ronaldinho, Deco and Eto'o. The emergence of Messi as a genuine world class player was just about the only highlight for them at the time.

This team is easily superior to Rijkaard's team at its height, nevermind the downhill outfit you beat (relatively speaking, they were still one of the best sides in the world at the time). And your defense is not as good now as it was then. I don't think you have the team to pull off such a performance now, let alone an even better one against the current barca side.

I suppose there is a general point to be made that their midfield dominance isn't everything, but Inter is the only team to really have pounced on that under Guardiola and that could just as easily have gone the either way with the chances Barca nevertheless had.

There aren't really any sides in Europe at the moment that stand out to me as being so outstanding defensively where you get the impression they could keep a clean sheet against anyone if they set their minds to it.

 

[antohan]

No defence, no goalkeeper
- no contest v Argentina 1986.

Correct. Argentina 86 without Maradona would lack quite a bit in creativity, but would beat a Messi-less Argentina 5 out of 10 times and draw 3 or 4 of the other games.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

No defence, no goalkeeper
- no contest v Argentina 1986.

Rubbish

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

This Barca team minus Messi's a different team though, surely?..

I seriously doubt it. Say Messi was to do a cruciate and miss like 8 months. Villa in the center would do as much damage goal wise paying with that midfield behind him and Pedro and Sanchez on either side. Right now Barca rely on him because he is available and he is their best man. If he wasn't available for an extended period, the rest would just step up. What makes Barca great is the system. Messi is more like the special cing on the cake, rather than the whole cake.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

I seriously doubt it. Say Messi was to do a cruciate and miss like 8 months. Villa in the center would do as much damage goal wise paying with that midfield behind him and Pedro and Sanchez on either side. Right now Barca rely on him because he is available and he is their best man. If he wasn't available for an extended period, the rest would just step up. What makes Barca great is the system. Messi is more like the special cing on the cake, rather than the whole cake.

I don't really agree, could you say the same for Ronaldo at Madrid, Rooney at United etc? All teams have one player they rely on more than others.

I hope we never have to experience any of these players being out for 8 months etc but it would be interesting to see just how it would effect them.

Personally i think Messi plays to pivotal a role for Barca not to massively effect the team if he was absent. No doubt they would still represent a tremendous side but he could easily be the difference between winner and runner up.

 

[MaroonPondlife]

Obviously not as this is a thread about Messi. Go and trawl the internet and find out how many times Maradona tore apart AC MIlan if that gives you a boner but its irrelevant.

I stand by my earlier post for this reason. Athletes become better in every sport as they embrace the science of athleticism. This is why world records are broken. Athletes become more focused, better trained, better fed, better managed etc etc etc...............so they can achieve their optimal performance.

This has really been embraced in the very modern era because of the huge sums of money involved from being the best and being able to have the support structure needed. From Physios to positive attitude training.

Football players today (in general) are fitter stronger and quicker than they were 20 years ago, ergo to be a stand out player (as Messi is) is harder, more difficult, more demanding.

The fact that you cannot relate to this point of view, only reinforces my view that football fans like you are the inverse of this trend.

They become more stupid, slower and less mentally agile than their predecessors. I call this the "Tard Law", particularly endemic among the internet generation.

lol. so true.

 

[Marcus]

I do admire Messi and the seemingly superhuman powers he has on the football field. BUT... he did take growth hormones in his youth. How this is different from doping, taking steriods etc... , the line is very hard to draw. He is special, but was he born special or made special.

 

[Wittmann45]

He was born special, growth hormones probably didn't help with his close control, his creativity, his intelligence...maybe being so small actually helped him develop those skills

At most, growth hormones enabled him to put his once in a generation natural skill set to its fullest use

 

[Varun]

I do admire Messi and the seemingly superhuman powers he has on the football field. BUT... he did take growth hormones in his youth. How this is different from doping, taking steriods etc... , the line is very hard to draw. He is special, but was he born special or made special.

Its the 2nd time today that am actually at a loss to understand whether a post is serious or not. genuinely.

 

[Danny1982]

I remember you from the newbies. Not even surprised.

I'm sorry I broke your heart, but I really don't love you.. It wouldn't have worked out anyway.. Get over it, and move on...

I do admire Messi and the seemingly superhuman powers he has on the football field. BUT... he did take growth hormones in his youth. How this is different from doping, taking steriods etc... , the line is very hard to draw. He is special, but was he born special or made special.

That's one of the funniest posts I have ever read.. Well done buddy.. By the way, do you even know what a growth hormone does, and why he was given it?

 

[Marcus]

I'm sorry I broke your heart, but I really don't love you.. It wouldn't have worked out anyway.. Get over it, and move on...



That's one of the funniest posts I have ever read.. Well done buddy.. By the way, do you even know what a growth hormone does, and why he was given it?

To grow taller? I am no expert but this is cut from wikipedia.

Growth hormone (GH) is a peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction and regeneration in humans and other animals. Growth hormone is a 191-amino acid, single-chain polypeptide that is synthesized, stored, and secreted by the somatotroph cells within the lateral wings of the anterior pituitary gland. Somatotropin (STH) refers to the growth hormone 1 produced naturally in animals, whereas the term somatropin refers to growth hormone produced by recombinant DNA technology,[1] and is abbreviated "HGH" in humans.

Growth hormone is used as a prescription drug in medicine to treat children's growth disorders and adult growth hormone deficiency. In the United States, it is only available legally from pharmacies, by prescription from a doctor. In recent years in the United States, some doctors have started to prescribe growth hormone in GH-deficient older patients (but not on healthy people) to increase vitality. While legal, the efficacy and safety of this use for HGH has not been tested in a clinical trial. At this time, HGH is still considered a very complex hormone, and many of its functions are still unknown.[2]

In its role as an anabolic agent, HGH has been abused by competitors in sports since the 1970s, and it has been banned by the IOC and NCAA. Traditional urine analysis could not detect doping with HGH, so the ban was unenforceable until the early 2000s when blood tests that could distinguish between natural and artificial HGH were starting to be developed. Blood tests conducted by WADA at the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens, Greece targeted primarily HGH.[2] This use for the drug is not approved by the FDA; GH is legally available only by prescription in the United States.
GH has been studied for use in raising livestock more efficiently in industrial agriculture and several efforts have been made to obtain governmental approval to use GH in livestock production. These uses have been controversial. In the United States, the only FDA-approved use of GH for livestock is the use of a cow-specific form of GH called bovine somatotropin for increasing milk production in dairy cows. Now retailers are permitted to label containers of milk as produced with or without bovine somatotropin.

 

[Danny1982]

Marcus, those are two separate things. The short-term and the long-term effects of GH. Short-term effects can affect the fitness of a player.. In the long term it can only affect the growth of the body (especially in the children, when growth is still going).

It's like taking steroids (for a year) to treat a serious disease. After 10 years, the disease is treated, but the effects of the steroids are long ago gone. They served their purpose at the time, and disappeared from the body shortly after you stop taking them..

So the effects of the GH that Messi took are over now (you don't expect him to be still peeing the GH he took more than 10 years ago, do you?), but it DID assist him during the crucial growth period of his life to overcome the lack of this hormone in his body, and develop his organs normally, and have a normal skeleton/stature to some extent (because his current growth is still less than it would have been had he had normal GH all his life)..

 

[Marcus]

Marcus, those are two separate things. The short-term and the long-term effects of GH. Short-term effects can affect the fitness of a player.. In the long term it can only affect the growth of the body (especially in the children, when growth is still going).

It's like taking steroids (for a year) to treat a serious disease. After 10 years, the disease is treated, but the effects of the steroids are long ago gone. They served their purpose at the time, and disappeared from the body shortly after you stop taking them..

So the effects of the GH that Messi took are over now (you don't expect him to be still peeing the GH he took more than 10 years ago, do you?), but it DID assist him during the crucial growth period of his life to overcome the lack of this hormone in his body, and develop his organs normally, and have a normal skeleton/stature to some extent (because his current growth is still less than it would have been had he had normal GH all his life)..

I'm no doctor, so I'm not in a position to dispute this. Messi's skills are of course not the result of the growth hormone treatment. But if the growth hormones make his body more resilient to injuries and there is some literature talking about the strengthening of muscles, ligaments, tendons etc, surely this cannot but help his performance. Michael Owen and Owen Hargreaves may have not been such sick-notes.

 

[Cal?]

I seriously doubt it. Say Messi was to do a cruciate and miss like 8 months. Villa in the center would do as much damage goal wise paying with that midfield behind him and Pedro and Sanchez on either side. Right now Barca rely on him because he is available and he is their best man. If he wasn't available for an extended period, the rest would just step up. What makes Barca great is the system. Messi is more like the special cing on the cake, rather than the whole cake.

For a Messi-less Barca, you only have to look at how Spain play, and they don't look anything as "special" as the current Barca do.

They'd still be a very good side, but somewhat lack the cutting edge that Messi provides.

 

[Danny1982]

I'm no doctor, so I'm not in a position to dispute this. Messi's skills are of course not the result of the growth hormone treatment. But if the growth hormones make his body more resilient to injuries and there is some literature talking about the strengthening of muscles, ligaments, tendons etc, surely this cannot but help his performance. Michael Owen and Owen Hargreaves may have not been such sick-notes.

To be honest, Messi HAS suffered his share of injuries a few years ago..

And I assure you, Messi has got out of this syndrome+therapy worse than a normal person, because he didn't even receive extra GH, they just tried to replace a portion of the hormone he lacked, why a normal person will always have the edge over him in this aspect. (Looking at his stature doesn't suggest he received extra GH than a normal person either).

 

[Devilton]

I do admire Messi and the seemingly superhuman powers he has on the football field. BUT... he did take growth hormones in his youth. How this is different from doping, taking steriods etc... , the line is very hard to draw. He is special, but was he born special or made special.

wtf...

are you suggesting he's a cybernetic organism? Case that would be cool...

 

[Marcus]

wtf...

are you suggesting he's a cybernetic organism? Case that would be cool...

Injecting growth hormones for 4 years into your legs might make your Captain South America or something.

 

[NJ1979]

This is extraordinarily wide of the mark. Do you think La Liga defences in 2011 even bear comparison with Serie A back-lines in the mid-to-late 1980s? That was a league where Milan could win the title netting just 36 times all season, where the average goals-per-game ratio was often well under two, and where legendary defenders such as Bergomi, Baresi, Vierchowod, Maldini, Brehme, Scirea reigned supreme. How many defenders of that calibre do you see in La Liga these days?

Exactly. The idea that modern defences are better because of diet and training etc is baffling to me - football's far more a game of skill than it is of fitness, and the defensive skills of Serie A teams in Maradona's time were far superior to the defensive skills of current La Liga teams.

 

[africanspur]

Growth hormone treatnment is the standard for a child that has stunted growth, below a certain decile in the growth curves of their age group. You get it on the NHS here in the UK I believe.

The major difference between taking growth hormones as a kid and anabolic steroids as an adult is that normal kids will have regular releases of GH as they're growing up, which Messi didn't have. The treatment went some way to atemtping to correct that mistake. Anabolic steroids are clearly not the same.

GH also has different effects on children and adults. Completely different.

 

[VP]

Growth hormone treatnment is the standard for a child that has stunted growth, below a certain decile in the growth curves of their age group. You get it on the NHS here in the UK I believe.

The major difference between taking growth hormones as a kid and anabolic steroids as an adult is that normal kids will have regular releases of GH as they're growing up, which Messi didn't have. The treatment went some way to atemtping to correct that mistake. Anabolic steroids are clearly not the same.

GH also has different effects on children and adults. Completely different.

Yup, plus he'd have probably taken growth hormones even if wasn't going to be a footballer. People who take steroids do it with the sole intention of cheating.

 

[Danny1982]

Yup, plus he'd have probably taken growth hormones even if wasn't going to be a footballer. People who take steroids do it with the sole intention of cheating.

There is no probably about it.. It's the only treatment for his condition or he would suffer serious growth problems..