Lionel Messi

[TheHorse'sMouth]

In all fairness though, he is the centrepoint of a team which completely dominates virtually every game they play, and has a monopoly on great central midfielders. His stats would be much better than the likes of Rooney and van Persie even if he was exactly as good as them.

Messi could play in midfield and still get something close to the goal return he fetches as a false 9. He won't be as astoundingly productive but he'll be pretty damn close. His football brain is ahead of any other player playing the game today and he reads situations exceptionally.

 

[RedLars]

He is passing into legendary status at the young age of 24. Providing he stays clear of injuries, why is it so hard to fathom that he quite could quite conceivably end up as the greatest player ever?

Those who can't fathom it are in denial. He clearly will, if he keeps his standard up. And in 25 years, we'll be the ones to say that the next phenomenon can't ever reach Messi's standards unless he has 22 goals and 11 assists two months into a season, and so forth.

 

[kietotheworld]

Perhaps, but he is usually one of the highest passers in the team after xavi, iniesta and busquets, so he is part of the reason they dominate so much. In the CL final for example I think only xavi, iniesta and busquets had more passes among the 22 players on the pitch.

EDIT: 3rd highest in the CL final: Xavi 158, Iniesta 112, messi 100, busquets 82.

Of course, he's an exceptional player, but the fact he only performs that well for Barcelona, when he's performed for a team who don't have best midfielders in the world by a country mile, Argentina, he's been nowhere near as effective. He might be the greatest player ever, but the fact he only does it when he's the centrepoint of what is the greatest team ever, surrounded by guys who won the World Cup without him, that puts a big question mark over it for me.

I find it difficult to even compare him to players like Rooney, van Persie etc. using his Barcelona form - how can they possibly compete with him when he is playing for a team with Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Villa, Sanchez, Busquets, and Rooney is playing with Anderson, Fletcher, Nani and Hernandez, and van Persie is playing with Arteta, Walcott and Gervinho? What Messi has to work with is so superior that any comparison is unfair.

Messi could play in midfield and still get something close to the goal return he fetches as a false 9. He won't be as astoundingly productive but he'll be pretty damn close. His football brain is ahead of any other player playing the game today and he reads situations exceptionally.

Based on what? Has he ever even played there?

 

[Brwned]

He is passing into legendary status at the young age of 24. Providing he stays clear of injuries, why is it so hard to fathom that he quite could quite conceivably end up as the greatest player ever?

There's very few if any that think it's completely inconceivable, and those that do think so are surely tainted by the sentiment of past heroes...but is it so difficult to understand people simply think he won't reach that level of greatness? He's not really stepped up outside his comfort zone, and some are dubious he ever will. Being the best doesn't equal being the greatest, he could break record after record and still not be the greatest. Hattrick's against Viktoria Plzen and Mallorca won't go down in history as anything more than just a number, it's the moments of greatness that stand the test of time and they needn't even have a significant impact on the game - Pele's classic nearly goals, Cruyff's 1st minute run to win a penalty only for them to go on and lose the final.

Out of interest, what moments of greatness do people think Messi's had in his career so far, moments that people just won't forget (to take the discussion in a slightly different direction)?

 

[MacMUFC]

The closest anyone's been to wanking over him after this game is Mac, and even then all he's said is:



which is true, and appropriate given it seems like he scores a hattrick or a double every other week. He already has 4 hattricks and 4 doubles. This time last year he just scored 4 doubles.

Haha, I meant it quite literally, so its not close to wanking over his performances.

I dont know, its just getting a bit tedious seeing him score a hattrick every other game.

 

[Inspectah deck]

Of course, he's an exceptional player, but the fact he only performs that well for Barcelona, when he's performed for a team who don't have best midfielders in the world by a country mile, Argentina, he's been nowhere near as effective. He might be the greatest player ever, but the fact he only does it when he's the centrepoint of what is the greatest team ever, surrounded by guys who won the World Cup without him, that puts a big question mark over it for me.

I find it difficult to even compare him to players like Rooney, van Persie etc. using his Barcelona form - how can they possibly compete with him when he is playing for a team with Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Villa, Sanchez, Busquets, and Rooney is playing with Anderson, Fletcher, Nani and Hernandez, and van Persie is playing with Arteta, Walcott and Gervinho? What Messi has to work with is so superior that any comparison is unfair.

In the Argie colours his goal scoring instincts is being somewhat traded off to being a supplier of goals, especially recently. He contributes directly to 3 goals every 5 games for argentina, in barcelona it is basically 5 in 5.

So some way off yes but it is still better than most of his peers, in a time of turmoil within the argie national team I would say that is still impressive. It's basically similar to what nani's stats has been the past couple of seasons that has earned him the world class tag.

 

[2Bullish]

Like Baresi, Maldini etc?

Obviously not. But then again you're just being a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime as you know what I mean.

 

[NJ1979]

Obviously not. But then again you're just being a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime as you know what I mean.

Yes, I'm being a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime. Italian defences in the late 80s to early 90s were notoriously shit, weren't they? Or maybe you were just talking bollocks.

 

[2Bullish]

Yes, I'm being a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime. Italian defences in the late 80s to early 90s were notoriously shit, weren't they? Or maybe you were just talking bollocks.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[NJ1979]

Not going to explain how Pepe and Marcelo are better than Baresi and Maldini, then?

 

[B20]

I find it difficult to even compare him to players like Rooney, van Persie etc. using his Barcelona form - how can they possibly compete with him when he is playing for a team with Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Villa, Sanchez, Busquets, and Rooney is playing with Anderson, Fletcher, Nani and Hernandez, and van Persie is playing with Arteta, Walcott and Gervinho? What Messi has to work with is so superior that any comparison is unfair.

Villa is the kind of player good enough to compare to the likes of Van Persie, Rooney et al. And has showed for Spain he thrives playing with these guys anyway. He didn't magically transform into a 50 goal a season striker because he got this kind of service. I think he is scoring less for barca than he did for Valencia. He's a very good player for barca, but he would be the standout at any other club, which just show you how far ahead Messi is of anyone else.

There's your frame for comparison.

 

[kouroux]

If effectiveness is taken into account, he's by far the best player I've ever watched.
I'm not a fan but he's just so fecking good that it is criminal not to admit.
There's Messi and there is the rest

 

[Inspectah deck]

Villa is the kind of player good enough to compare to the likes of Van Persie, Rooney et al. And has showed for Spain he thrives playing with these guys anyway. He didn't magically transform into a 50 goal a season striker because he got this kind of service. I think he is scoring less for barca than he did for Valencia. He's a very good player for barca, but he would be the standout at any other club, which just show you how far ahead Messi is of anyone else.

There's your frame for comparison.

To be fair, villa plays out wide virtually all the time, but yeah I see what you mean, because messi played in a similar position in 08/09 and still scored+assisted over 50 goals. I'm not sure any of villa(evidently), rooney et.c can get near that from a wide position.

That being said, a better comparison would be zlatan who played centrally for barca most of the time.

 

[B20]

Out of interest, what moments of greatness do people think Messi's had in his career so far, moments that people just won't forget (to take the discussion in a slightly different direction)?

Standouts for me:

hattrick against real in a 3-3 game. Think he was only 18 or something.

His 4-goal demolition of Arsenal.

that goal against Real in the semi.

Scoring in and winning two CL finals.

 

[2Bullish]

Then don't compare the players respective team mates. Take them out of the equation completely and concentrate on what these players can do when they have the ball.

 

[B20]

Then don't compare the players respective team mates. Take them out of the equation completely and concentrate on what these players can do when they have the ball.

Yeah. And it's pretty obvious looking at that that Messi can do stuff no one since Maradona could pull off.

 

[kietotheworld]

It doesn't matter if Villa or Zlatan plays, the team is centred around getting the best out of Messi regardless, that's why Villa scores less even though he's surrounded by far better players. Look at his record for Spain, where he's got the same players around him, he is much more effective.

There are numerous examples of this, take Ronaldo for us, when he was playing for us he was scoring a lot more goals than Rooney even though it he was playing ostensibly out wide, the reason was that the side was built around him. When he left the club, the focus shifted to Rooney, and Rooney was on for a 40-50 goal season before getting injured. Equally, look at Torres, back when he was magnificent for Liverpool, scoring a shitload of goals, his record for Spain was nowhere near as good because the team was built around getting the best out of David Villa. If Messi got injured for a season, it wouldn't surprise me if Villa got 50-60 goals for them, and I'd expect someone like van Persie or Rooney to do the same.

 

[2Bullish]

Not going to explain how Pepe and Marcelo are better than Baresi and Maldini, then?

Obviously not as this is a thread about Messi. Go and trawl the internet and find out how many times Maradona tore apart AC MIlan if that gives you a boner but its irrelevant.

I stand by my earlier post for this reason. Athletes become better in every sport as they embrace the science of athleticism. This is why world records are broken. Athletes become more focused, better trained, better fed, better managed etc etc etc...............so they can achieve their optimal performance.

This has really been embraced in the very modern era because of the huge sums of money involved from being the best and being able to have the support structure needed. From Physios to positive attitude training.

Football players today (in general) are fitter stronger and quicker than they were 20 years ago, ergo to be a stand out player (as Messi is) is harder, more difficult, more demanding.

The fact that you cannot relate to this point of view, only reinforces my view that football fans like you are the inverse of this trend.

They become more stupid, slower and less mentally agile than their predecessors. I call this the "Tard Law", particularly endemic among the internet generation.

 

[Cold_Boy]

If effectiveness is taken into account, he's by far the best player I've ever watched.
I'm not a fan but he's just so fecking good that it is criminal not to admit.
There's Messi and there is the rest

This.

Unbelievable how blind and ignorant few people are.

 

[Cold_Boy]

It doesn't matter if Villa or Zlatan plays, the team is centred around getting the best out of Messi regardless, that's why Villa scores less even though he's surrounded by far better players. Look at his record for Spain, where he's got the same players around him, he is much more effective.

There are numerous examples of this, take Ronaldo for us, when he was playing for us he was scoring a lot more goals than Rooney even though it he was playing ostensibly out wide, the reason was that the side was built around him. When he left the club, the focus shifted to Rooney, and Rooney was on for a 40-50 goal season before getting injured. Equally, look at Torres, back when he was magnificent for Liverpool, scoring a shitload of goals, his record for Spain was nowhere near as good because the team was built around getting the best out of David Villa. If Messi got injured for a season, it wouldn't surprise me if Villa got 50-60 goals for them, and I'd expect someone like van Persie or Rooney to do the same.

If you are just looking for faults well there are so many ways to do it.

I am sure Maradona too had teams supporting him more if not built completely around him.

These players have teams built around them because they are so fecking good.

 

[kouroux]

It doesn't matter if Villa or Zlatan plays, the team is centred around getting the best out of Messi regardless, that's why Villa scores less even though he's surrounded by far better players. Look at his record for Spain, where he's got the same players around him, he is much more effective.

There are numerous examples of this, take Ronaldo for us, when he was playing for us he was scoring a lot more goals than Rooney even though it he was playing ostensibly out wide, the reason was that the side was built around him. When he left the club, the focus shifted to Rooney, and Rooney was on for a 40-50 goal season before getting injured. Equally, look at Torres, back when he was magnificent for Liverpool, scoring a shitload of goals, his record for Spain was nowhere near as good because the team was built around getting the best out of David Villa. If Messi got injured for a season, it wouldn't surprise me if Villa got 50-60 goals for them, and I'd expect someone like van Persie or Rooney to do the same.

Essentially it means there is no real difference between Messi and all the other players you mentioned right ? If it's only the Barca system which makes the difference between Messi and the rest then I guess it can be translated as Messi more or less equals Rooney or RVP which I think is completely false.
Yes Barca are the superior team but Messi isn't a stranger, he's part of that system and he contributes to make it even better.Villa performs regularly well for Spain but it's so obvious to me that he's still individually an inferior player to Messi.
The system clearly helps the player to perform well but the player is also part of the system

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It doesn't matter if Villa or Zlatan plays, the team is centred around getting the best out of Messi regardless, that's why Villa scores less even though he's surrounded by far better players. Look at his record for Spain, where he's got the same players around him, he is much more effective.

There are numerous examples of this, take Ronaldo for us, when he was playing for us he was scoring a lot more goals than Rooney even though it he was playing ostensibly out wide, the reason was that the side was built around him. When he left the club, the focus shifted to Rooney, and Rooney was on for a 40-50 goal season before getting injured. Equally, look at Torres, back when he was magnificent for Liverpool, scoring a shitload of goals, his record for Spain was nowhere near as good because the team was built around getting the best out of David Villa. If Messi got injured for a season, it wouldn't surprise me if Villa got 50-60 goals for them, and I'd expect someone like van Persie or Rooney to do the same.

What's your point? Are you implying that Villa, Van Persie or Rooney are as good as Messi? They're quite blatantly not.

I'll tell you what, though, if Messi did get injured for a season then Barca wouldn't be anything like as good a team as they are now. Even if he was replaced by any of those players you just listed.

 

[2Bullish]

What's your point? Are you implying that Villa, Van Persie or Rooney are as good as Messi? They're quite blatantly not.

I'll tell you what, though, if Messi did get injured for a season then Barca wouldn't be anything like as good a team as they are now. Even if he was replaced by any of those players you just listed.

Messi is the heart and soul of Barca, without him, they would be like us. Had we have kept Ronaldo it would have been a different story. We would have been comparable. I purposely do not mention Rooney as he is not in the same league as Ronaldo and not on the same planet as Messi.

 

[Varun]

It doesn't matter if Villa or Zlatan plays, the team is centred around getting the best out of Messi regardless, that's why Villa scores less even though he's surrounded by far better players. Look at his record for Spain, where he's got the same players around him, he is much more effective.

There are numerous examples of this, take Ronaldo for us, when he was playing for us he was scoring a lot more goals than Rooney even though it he was playing ostensibly out wide, the reason was that the side was built around him. When he left the club, the focus shifted to Rooney, and Rooney was on for a 40-50 goal season before getting injured. Equally, look at Torres, back when he was magnificent for Liverpool, scoring a shitload of goals, his record for Spain was nowhere near as good because the team was built around getting the best out of David Villa. If Messi got injured for a season, it wouldn't surprise me if Villa got 50-60 goals for them, and I'd expect someone like van Persie or Rooney to do the same.

Agree with your post except the part in bold. that part is totally wrong. Yes, Barca are designed to get the best out of messi but even then, he pulls off stuff no other player in the world could. The only player who could get as many goals as him if he played for Barca would be ronaldo. nobody else. not villa, not RVP nor Rooney. Even ronaldo, not because he's as good as him but because he has it in him to be ridiculously productive as he's proved.

 

[NJ1979]

Obviously not as this is a thread about Messi. Go and trawl the internet and find out how many times Maradona tore apart AC MIlan if that gives you a boner but its irrelevant.

I stand by my earlier post for this reason. Athletes become better in every sport as they embrace the science of athleticism. This is why world records are broken. Athletes become more focused, better trained, better fed, better managed etc etc etc...............so they can achieve their optimal performance.

This has really been embraced in the very modern era because of the huge sums of money involved from being the best and being able to have the support structure needed. From Physios to positive attitude training.

Football players today (in general) are fitter stronger and quicker than they were 20 years ago, ergo to be a stand out player (as Messi is) is harder, more difficult, more demanding.

The fact that you cannot relate to this point of view, only reinforces my view that football fans like you are the inverse of this trend.

They become more stupid, slower and less mentally agile than their predecessors. I call this the "Tard Law", particularly endemic among the internet generation.

Fitter doesn't equal better though, does it? Giggs is half as slow and twice as old as he was when he first came on the scene, yet he's still retained much of his effectiveness. Same with Maldini, who played across both Maradona and Messi's eras and remained a great player in both.

Players in Maradona's era were professionals trained to the height of fitness using the best methods of the time, as are modern players. It's not harder to stand out now, as it's still a level playing field - Maradona faced opponents who'd had the same sort of training as him, with a similar level of fitness, same as Messi does now.

 

[Siorac]

Messi is the heart and soul of Barca, without him, they would be like us. Had we have kept Ronaldo it would have been a different story. We would have been comparable. I purposely do not mention Rooney as he is not in the same league as Ronaldo and not on the same planet as Messi.

That's delusion, I'm afraid.

Valdés; Alves, Piqué, Puyol, Abidal; Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta; Pedro, Villa, Sánchez

This is still better than any first XI we can field and they'd have Fábregas on the bench... Spain are obviously a lot better than any national team at the moment and they don't have Messi. Messi is the best player in the world, the crowning jewel of Barcelona and they have a system designed to get the best out of him but with their current squad they could adapt to playing without him, even if it might mean a period of slightly less than inspiring performances.

And the "had we kept Ronaldo" theory falls down with the Rome final.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Agree with your post except the part in bold. that part is totally wrong. Yes, Barca are designed to get the best out of messi but even then, he pulls off stuff no other player in the world could. The only player who could get as many goals as him if he played for Barca would be ronaldo. nobody else. not villa, not RVP nor Rooney. Even ronaldo, not because he's as good as him but because he has it in him to be ridiculously productive as he's proved.

I don't think Ronaldo would get as many goals. Barca, as a team, wouldn't function anything like as well, which would create less opportunities for him to score.

Of course, the fact he's that bit more selfish might give him a higher proportion of whatever goals they do score but I don't think that would be enough to compensate.

 

[Bryan_Munich]

It would be interesting to see Barcelona for a sustained period of time without him.

 

[adexkola]

Why are people taking any doubts on Messi personal? Jesus

 

[Inspectah deck]

It would be interesting to see Barcelona for a sustained period of time without him.

Yup, though one can see even with him playing that whenever he has a poor game they morph into arsenal on a bad day, all pretty passing with no cutting edge. This happened as recently as granada game where they couldnt even score more than one against a 10 man relegation team.

Spain won the world cup without him yes, the influence of having 7 players combined is obviously greater than losing just one player so im not sure why this is used as an argument . Even then, they were far from convincing as they were given real tests by virtually every team they played in the competiton. They got away with it in a 7 game competiton, In a 50+ games season? that team would not stand a chance.

 

[Siorac]

Yup, though one can see even with him playing that whenever he has a poor game they morph into arsenal on a bad day, all pretty passing with no cutting edge. This happened as recently as granada game where they couldnt even score more than one against a 10 man relegation team.

Spain won the world cup without him yes, the influence of having 7 players combined is obviously greater than losing just one player so im not sure why this is used as an argument . Even then, they were far from convincing as they were given real tests by virtually every team they played in the competiton. They got away with it in a 7 game competiton, In a 50+ games season? that team would not stand a chance.

A team with Villa, Xavi, Iniesta, Fábregas etc. would not stand a chance? I love these kind of statements, worded with such certainty, such unshakeable belief.

 

[Varun]

I don't think Ronaldo would get as many goals. Barca, as a team, wouldn't function anything like as well, which would create less opportunities for him to score.

Of course, the fact he's that bit more selfish might give him a higher proportion of whatever goals they do score but I don't think that would be enough to compensate.

Barca as a unit wont be as good, thats obviously true. But then they'd still be a fantastic outfit if they keep everything the same and just play ronaldo as the striker. they'd still create a LOT of chances which ronaldo would benefit from. They have a ridiculous mix of creative players that fashion chances even without messi.

Ronaldo scores close to as many as messi does already. in the barca line up with the likes of xavi iniesta fabregas etc feeding him, i do think he'd score as many as messi does. he really is a fantastic goalscorer even though he doesnt really have the all round game that messi does.

A team with Villa, Xavi, Iniesta, Fábregas etc. would not stand a chance? I love these kind of statements, worded with such certainty, such unshakeable belief.

Barca - Messi winning the La Liga? Am inclined to side with inspectah deck here. dont think they'd win the title, not with this Madrid side competing with them.

 

[kietotheworld]

Essentially it means there is no real difference between Messi and all the other players you mentioned right ? If it's only the Barca system which makes the difference between Messi and the rest then I guess it can be translated as Messi more or less equals Rooney or RVP which I think is completely false.
Yes Barca are the superior team but Messi isn't a stranger, he's part of that system and he contributes to make it even better.Villa performs regularly well for Spain but it's so obvious to me that he's still individually an inferior player to Messi.
The system clearly helps the player to perform well but the player is also part of the system

So how do you separate the player and the system? For me, it is extremely difficult to separate them. A lot of people say he has to perform for Argentina, he has to drag them to a World Cup, because it's that that defines a player, I don't necessarily agree with that, but what he has to do for me to be comfortable in saying he is the greatest ever player is do it for a team who is not completely dominant. That might be Argentina, it might be another club, or it might be Barcelona when they drop down a few levels.

I wouldn't expect him to move, and it's certainly nothing one can criticise him for, but it does leave a question mark there if he only does it for a completely dominant side.

What's your point? Are you implying that Villa, Van Persie or Rooney are as good as Messi? They're quite blatantly not.

I'll tell you what, though, if Messi did get injured for a season then Barca wouldn't be anything like as good a team as they are now. Even if he was replaced by any of those players you just listed.

I've already said that I think it's folly to even compare Messi to other players.

I'm directly staying that I believe they would score as many goals. Rooney scored 34 in an injury hit season when the side was built around him with the likes of Carrick, Fletcher, Gibson and Valencia creating for him, I would expect him to score a lot more goals if he had Xavi, Iniesta and Henry/Villa/Ibra (depending on the season) providing the goals for him. van Persie has scored 28 goals (I think) this calendar year, and much of his service has come from Arshavin, Song, Gervinho etc, and there are still 2 months to go. If he had those amazing world class players who have grown up together dominating every game and providing for him, why on earth wouldn't he score a lot more? Ronaldo scored just as many, if not more than Messi last season, in less appearances, with inferior (though very good) team mates, I'd be very surprised if he didn't hit even more in that side.

It's possible, indeed likely, that the team would be adversely effected by this, Messi has come through the Barcelona academy and he knows how to play with those players, but how do you separate that from how good he actually is?

Agree with your post except the part in bold. that part is totally wrong. Yes, Barca are designed to get the best out of messi but even then, he pulls off stuff no other player in the world could. The only player who could get as many goals as him if he played for Barca would be ronaldo. nobody else. not villa, not RVP nor Rooney. Even ronaldo, not because he's as good as him but because he has it in him to be ridiculously productive as he's proved.

Yeah, he does stuff no other player in the world can, he's certainly individually brilliant, but a lot of players have been over the years.

 

[Inspectah deck]

A team with Villa, Xavi, Iniesta, Fábregas etc. would not stand a chance? I love these kind of statements, worded with such certainty, such unshakeable belief.

So you think the 2010 world cup team that struggled to beat almost every team in the competition can win a 38 game competition against the current Real madrid side? Or beat United in the CL final? IMO I don't think so.

Honestly, IMO he is THE difference between Barcelona and Mardid right now, and in almost every game they've played since 2009. Do you think david villa or fabregas could have walked the ball into the net in the CL Semi finals last season? I certainly dont. We will never know, but had that moment not happen, madrid could well have been on their 10th CL title by now.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's possible, indeed likely, that the team would be adversely effected by this, Messi has come through the Barcelona academy and he knows how to play with those players, but how do you separate that from how good he actually is?

Yeah, he does stuff no other player in the world can, he's certainly individually brilliant, but a lot of players have been over the years.

Very easily. By watching him play football. It's really not difficult to see that what he brings to the team is much much more than a familiarity with the way Barca play football. I mean, come on.

 

[Inspectah deck]

So how do you separate the player and the system? For me, it is extremely difficult to separate them. A lot of people say he has to perform for Argentina, he has to drag them to a World Cup, because it's that that defines a player, I don't necessarily agree with that, but what he has to do for me to be comfortable in saying he is the greatest ever player is do it for a team who is not completely dominant. That might be Argentina, it might be another club, or it might be Barcelona when they drop down a few levels.

I wouldn't expect him to move, and it's certainly nothing one can criticise him for, but it does leave a question mark there if he only does it for a completely dominant side.

I've already said that I think it's folly to even compare Messi to other players.

I'm directly staying that I believe they would score as many goals. Rooney scored 34 in an injury hit season when the side was built around him with the likes of Carrick, Fletcher, Gibson and Valencia creating for him, I would expect him to score a lot more goals if he had Xavi, Iniesta and Henry/Villa/Ibra (depending on the season) providing the goals for him. van Persie has scored 28 goals (I think) this calendar year, and much of his service has come from Arshavin, Song, Gervinho etc, and there are still 2 months to go. If he had those amazing world class players who have grown up together dominating every game and providing for him, why on earth wouldn't he score a lot more? Ronaldo scored just as many, if not more than Messi last season, in less appearances, with inferior (though very good) team mates, I'd be very surprised if he didn't hit even more in that side.

It's possible, indeed likely, that the team would be adversely effected by this, Messi has come through the Barcelona academy and he knows how to play with those players, but how do you separate that from how good he actually is?

You don't need to analyse the teams they play in to know that rooney is a better player than adebayor, despite the latter playing in inferior teams over the years.

As for the argument in bold, how can where he got his football education be a slight on how good he is?!

 

[Danny1982]

It would be interesting to see Barcelona for a sustained period of time without him.

That's not interesting.. That will be the saddest thing that could happen to football..

What some people/haters don't realize is how lucky we are to have a player like him to watch every week.. It's beyond being a fan.. People who lived in Maradona's era will never forget how good he was.. Even people who weren't Argentine, or Napoli fans, because they love football, and it doesn't get any better than when Maradona or Messi is doing it.

I don't care about how Barcelona will look like without Messi, or these stupid theories and arguments that are directed (mostly) by jealousy or hate, and aimed (desperately) at proving that Messi isn't "that good"..

If you don't think Messi is good and you don't enjoy watching him play, or you think that Van Persie is as good, then fine. Don't watch him play, go watch Van Persie play instead..

Besides, this whole "what will Barcelona do without Messi" is just pointless. You know why? Because Brazil won the world cup in 1962 WITHOUT Pele. SO? What did that prove?? Pele isn't a great player because he had his teammates to thank for what he won?? Because his teammates proved they can do it without him?? This is absurd. Nobody is perfect. Nobody.. Maradona didn't win the champions league. Pele didn't play in Europe. Messi didn't win the world cup (yet). And people will always find excuses to try to diminish a player that they don't like.. EVEN if Messi was injured and Barcelona collapse, that won't shut the haters up. It will only deprive us (the real football fans) of the joy of watching this unique phenomenon every week.. And that will NEVER be interesting for me.

 

[RedLars]

Very easily. By watching him play football. It's really not difficult to see that what he brings to the team is much much more than a familiarity with the way Barca play football. I mean, come on.

 

[adexkola]

That's not interesting.. That will be the saddest thing that could happen to football..

What some people/haters don't realize is how lucky we are to have a player like him to watch every week.. It's beyond being a fan.. People who lived in Maradona's era will never forget how good he was.. Even people who weren't Argentine, or Napoli fans, because they love football, and it doesn't get any better than when Maradona or Messi is doing it.

I don't care about how Barcelona will look like without Messi, or these stupid theories and arguments that are directed (mostly) by jealousy or hate, and aimed (desperately) at proving that Messi isn't "that good"..

If you don't think Messi is good and you don't enjoy watching him play, or you think that Van Persie is as good, then fine. Don't watch him play, go watch Van Persie play instead..

Besides, this whole "what will Barcelona do without Messi" is just pointless. You know why? Because Brazil won the world cup in 1962 WITHOUT Pele. SO? What did that prove?? Pele isn't a great player because he had his teammates to thank for what he won?? Because his teammates proved they can do it without him?? This is absurd. Nobody is perfect. Nobody.. Maradona didn't win the champions league. Pele didn't play in Europe. Messi didn't win the world cup (yet). And people will always find excuses to try to diminish a player that they don't like.. EVEN if Messi was injured and Barcelona collapse, that won't shut the haters up. It will only deprive us (the real football fans) of the joy of watching this unique phenomenon every week.. And that will NEVER be interesting for me.

I love good football, and I enjoy watching Messi at his best, but please get a grip of yourself.

 

[Gio]

Messi, barring injury, will eclipse Maradonas goals tally and shatter his goal average by the time he retires and, he will have done it all against much better opposition.

This is extraordinarily wide of the mark. Do you think La Liga defences in 2011 even bear comparison with Serie A back-lines in the mid-to-late 1980s? That was a league where Milan could win the title netting just 36 times all season, where the average goals-per-game ratio was often well under two, and where legendary defenders such as Bergomi, Baresi, Vierchowod, Maldini, Brehme, Scirea reigned supreme. How many defenders of that calibre do you see in La Liga these days?