Only in the eyes of Messi fans.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
- Start date
- Status
lol. gtfo.
He probably needs to have a very good world cup if he is to venture into the Pele/Maradona level, I doubt he cares whether he does or not anyway. If I'm 24 years old and I'm already legitimately one of the top 10 players ever, I couldn't give two fecks if i was top 2 or top 3.
Manchester united, Bayern, Madrid, Chelsea, Barca, City are much better than ANY side on the International stage bar Spain/Germany.
That argument is utter hog wash frankly. The players rated as the greatest ever, excelled at club and international level. It should not be hard to fathom or understand that for anyone to be classed in their league, that person would have to excel at both those levels. If has feck all to do with imitation. This stupid notion that people want him to do exactly what Maradona and Pele did is a silly caricature of what people are acutally saying.
Messi is not the first to have an incredible club career. Di Stefano himself did way better in Europe for example. Yet even he is not classed with Pele and Maradona because he didn't excel in the two levels they did.
Only in terms of goals. A man like Di Stefano in the past made winning in Europe for example look piss easy.
That matters little. Club football is a comfort zone for most of the world's best. They get tested far more at an international tournaments and in qualifiers than they do on a regular basis at club level. At club level they have the optimum conditions and platforms to unleashed their skills. At international level they have in comparison to take on far more responsibility and work much harder to shine. For me it usually separates the real all time greats from the pretenders.
hmmm.
Wow
A quarter final consiting of Barca,Madrid, United,Chelsea, Bayern, Inter,City and Milan is much much tougher than any combination you can come up with in the international scene at this point in time.
Barca, a team that many claim is one of the best teams of all time, have only won something like 1 out of their last 10 away games in the knockout rounds of the CL. Spain and Germany on the other hand have destroyed every team in their way in almost every "competitive" game they have played over the last 2-3 years, I'm not sure how that is any less comforting than being Barca or United.
It's a better tournament no doubt. But the world cup is the biggest stage. And national glory will always mean more than that of a club. It won't change ever imo.
Besides, why just look at it in isolation of the player? You look at Messi and the challenges before him as a professional and you'd have to say that, putting aside the great to play the game and their achievements, the world cup is THE big.challenge before him. He IS the best player in the world right now. But he's also part of a team which without him is the best international team around and also hogs the ball for 7 mins out of 10 at will. Barcelona are the best team around by a mile. Theyve toyed with the second best team for two finals in the last three years to the point where it looked a bit silly.
So having seen the level of the team he's in (obviously he's very important to that) and the ease with which they've swept all aside, I would say that the world cup is his greatest challenge. And while he's already amazing, that stage and his performance on it where he's out of his comfort zone would determine just how great.
What he's currently achieving at club level is just insane. He's already won a shit load of trophies, individual awards and scores obscene amounts of goals. The fact he's only 24 years old but is currently only 39 goals away from becoming Barcelona's all-time top goalscorer speaks volumes in itself.
But I do feel, as I'm sure others do, I would like to see him dominate a World Cup, with Argentina winnning it. Then he'll truly deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona.
I wonder if he regrets not choosing Spain, he'd probably be rated ahead of Maradona by now with a Euro & a WC under his belt along with his Barca trophies.
He is better than Maradona though. And Pele. I just saw his highlights against Racing santander, brilliant.
Highlights are a great way to support your opinion.
Hopefully your judgement on the player Pele was is based on more.
Grainy youtube snippets, that's all I have on Pele
It's not going to be that easy, the legend isn't going to be written that way.
Why do you continue to take the bait? He's not even trying anymore and someone still always responds to him.
There was no bait. What cal said was actually true, Spain wanted him to play for them around 2004 but Messi opted for Argentina.
Well theres truth in any trollbait tbh, such as him probably never winning a world cup will be true and him not being AS good at international level is true. But it doesn't detract from his greatness, but the trolls will continue to use it as so, because people will always rise to it.
That's what it boils down to eventually though... Most football fans won't sit through entire 1963 Santos games just to see how Pelé would fare on a 90-minute timescale. Highlights are eventually the gauge but they are obviously so reductive one will never grant them a sufficient credibility to judge something as massive and sweeping as the best ever player.
One thing that might play in Messi's favour in the all-time discussions is that football fans in the 2060s might be more inclined to download (or whatever they'll do by then) entire games of today's Barça than we would be of tuning in to Pelé's Santos, purely because Barcelona right now is one of the best teams ever. That will be a perk for Messi - hailing from a splendid team, thus encouraging people to see him perform over 90 minutes and have a more definite opinion of his abilities. But I can already see the counter-arguments saying he was favoured because of being in such a great team etc.
Which is why the best player ever changes every 20 years - added to the fact most people pick their childhood icon, the player that was dominant as one grew up.
Basically these discussions will last endlessly, just like today
Good to know we share something with the football fans of the 2060s... Who'd have said Cal is actually a futuristic poster
This is just sublime.
Orgasmic
feck off baby faced assassin! Stealing my thunder like that..cock!
Haha.. What are the odds! Do you follow me on twitter?
Playstation
I agree with this!
To be the best of the best you need to do and have it all. Today he lack success on international level. So far he hasn't show any leadership and his charisma is less then average. That's not good enough to be considered the best ever, but he have time on his side.
Maradona is a crazy character and he's not the sharpest knife in the box but it's impossible to deny that he walk and talk like a superstar. In his heyday's he was like magnet, you couldn't take your eyes from him. Good or bad he was the star with a big S. Messi isn't even close to that. Pelé is sometimes a joke and his playing days was in the stone age but his achievements stands for itself. Four World Cups and three wins. He scored in the final when he was 17 and 30 years old. Hard to beat that! Players from his country and time didn't have the luxury to play a Champions League (watched by millions of people) every year, they had one big global tournament every forth year. If you didn't delivered at that time you where nobody.
On another note. Compare Messi to other global superstars. Take Michael Jordan or Mohammad Ali and compare him to them. It's giant's against a dwarf
. They where more then athlete's! They delivered when it matters and they took their sports to a new level."Be like Mike" "Best when it matters" "I believe I can fly"
"Dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee" First round, first minute" "Refuse to fight the yellow man" "I'm the greatest"
(show me one legendary quote about Messi? show me a great commercial? show me something who epitomize his carrer so far? show me one clip when the whole stadium(not only his own fans) gives him a standing ovation? show me something worth to remember for the next 30 years??)
There are books, songs and movies about them. Famous commercials. Legendary quotes. Loads of TV interveiws. When they enter a room some people starts to cry, many lay's down on the floor and do "I'm not worthy".
Anybody who remember Barcelona 1992 or Atlanta 1996 know what I mean. Icons! Living legends! Larger then life characters! You name it and they had it. How often do you see Messi meeting world famous or political leaders? Is there anyone outside the football world who recognize him for other then fancy skills and nice goals? Not even his own people worship him. Strange? The best ever..
To (maybe) have the best football skills ever and score shiteloads of goals isn't good enough. You need to have it all and deliver on all stages. Come back when he has won a World Cup or two and when you see him shine besides presidents and real superstars. The day when Messi deliver the whole package and is prime time all over the world for no reasons at all other then being himself we can talk.
That's a great post. Some will pick purely on the quotes bit but its spot on. Messi is clearly a phenomenal footballer but the greatest at anything always have something unique that's not tangible in terms talent, which is this ability to unite teams and drag them along (unless they're utterly useless of course). It's this charisma and personality that the greatest have, whether outspoken or not. He has time on his hands to prove he has that. But I don't think winning everything in the dream team will ever conclusive prove he has it.I agree with this!
To be the best of the best you need to do and have it all. Today he lack success on national level. So far he hasn't show any leadership and his charisma is less then average. That's not good enough to be considered the best ever, but he have time on his side.
Maradona is a crazy character and he's not the sharpest knife in the box but it's impossible to deny that he walk and talk like a superstar. In his heyday's he was like magnet, you couldn't take your eyes from him. Good or bad he was the star with a big S. Messi isn't even close to that. Pelé is sometimes a joke and his playing days was in the stone age but his achievements stands for itself. Four World Cups and three wins. He scored in the final when he was 17 and 30 years old. Hard to beat that! Players from his country and time didn't have the luxury to play a Champions League (watched by millions of people) every year, they had one big global tournament every forth year. If you didn't delivered at that time you where nobody.
On another note. Compare Messi to other global superstars. Take Michael Jordan or Mohammad Ali and compare him to them. It's giant's against a dwarf
"Be like Mike" "Best when it matters" "I believe I can fly"
"Dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee" First round, first minute" "Refuse to fight the yellow man" "I'm the greatest"
(show me one legendary quote about Messi? show me a great commercial? show me something who epitomize his carrer so far? show me one clip when the whole stadium(not only his own fans) gives him a standing ovation? show me something worth to remember for the next 30 years??)
There are books, songs and movies about them. Famous commercials. Legendary quotes. Loads of TV interveiws. When they enter a room some people starts to cry, many lay's down on the floor and do "I'm not worthy".
Anybody who remember Barcelona 1992 or Atlanta 1996 know what I mean. Icons! Living legends! Larger then life characters! You name it and they had it. How often do you see Messi meeting world famous or political leaders? Is there anyone outside the football world who recognize him for other then fancy skills and nice goals? Not even his own people worship him. Strange? The best ever..
To (maybe) have the best football skills ever and score shiteloads of goals isn't good enough. You need to have it all and deliver on all stages. Come back when he has won a World Cup or two and when you see him shine besides presidents and real superstars. The day when Messi deliver the whole package and is prime time all over the world for no reasons at all other then being himself we can talk.
I agree with this!
To be the best of the best you need to do and have it all. Today he lack success on national level. So far he hasn't show any leadership and his charisma is less then average. That's not good enough to be considered the best ever, but he have time on his side.
Maradona is a crazy character and he's not the sharpest knife in the box but it's impossible to deny that he walk and talk like a superstar. In his heyday's he was like magnet, you couldn't take your eyes from him. Good or bad he was the star with a big S. Messi isn't even close to that. Pelé is sometimes a joke and his playing days was in the stone age but his achievements stands for itself. Four World Cups and three wins. He scored in the final when he was 17 and 30 years old. Hard to beat that! Players from his country and time didn't have the luxury to play a Champions League (watched by millions of people) every year, they had one big global tournament every forth year. If you didn't delivered at that time you where nobody.
On another note. Compare Messi to other global superstars. Take Michael Jordan or Mohammad Ali and compare him to them. It's giant's against a dwarf
"Be like Mike" "Best when it matters" "I believe I can fly"
"Dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee" First round, first minute" "Refuse to fight the yellow man" "I'm the greatest"
(show me one legendary quote about Messi? show me a great commercial? show me something who epitomize his carrer so far? show me one clip when the whole stadium(not only his own fans) gives him a standing ovation? show me something worth to remember for the next 30 years??)
There are books, songs and movies about them. Famous commercials. Legendary quotes. Loads of TV interveiws. When they enter a room some people starts to cry, many lay's down on the floor and do "I'm not worthy".
Anybody who remember Barcelona 1992 or Atlanta 1996 know what I mean. Icons! Living legends! Larger then life characters! You name it and they had it. How often do you see Messi meeting world famous or political leaders? Is there anyone outside the football world who recognize him for other then fancy skills and nice goals? Not even his own people worship him. Strange? The best ever..
To (maybe) have the best football skills ever and score shiteloads of goals isn't good enough. You need to have it all and deliver on all stages. Come back when he has won a World Cup or two and when you see him shine besides presidents and real superstars. The day when Messi deliver the whole package and is prime time all over the world for no reasons at all other then being himself we can talk.
BS. Sports purists don't think this way ... that is the way a typical housewife sees it. Pacquiao ain't got no 'personality' but I'd rather watch him than Ali.
The speed at which Messi operates has never been matched, not even close. Football has moved on ... Totally unique.
I agree with this!
To be the best of the best you need to do and have it all. Today he lack success on national level. So far he hasn't show any leadership and his charisma is less then average. That's not good enough to be considered the best ever, but he have time on his side.
Maradona is a crazy character and he's not the sharpest knife in the box but it's impossible to deny that he walk and talk like a superstar. In his heyday's he was like magnet, you couldn't take your eyes from him. Good or bad he was the star with a big S. Messi isn't even close to that. Pelé is sometimes a joke and his playing days was in the stone age but his achievements stands for itself. Four World Cups and three wins. He scored in the final when he was 17 and 30 years old. Hard to beat that! Players from his country and time didn't have the luxury to play a Champions League (watched by millions of people) every year, they had one big global tournament every forth year. If you didn't delivered at that time you where nobody.
On another note. Compare Messi to other global superstars. Take Michael Jordan or Mohammad Ali and compare him to them. It's giant's against a dwarf
"Be like Mike" "Best when it matters" "I believe I can fly"
"Dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee" First round, first minute" "Refuse to fight the yellow man" "I'm the greatest"
(show me one legendary quote about Messi? show me a great commercial? show me something who epitomize his carrer so far? show me one clip when the whole stadium(not only his own fans) gives him a standing ovation? show me something worth to remember for the next 30 years??)
There are books, songs and movies about them. Famous commercials. Legendary quotes. Loads of TV interveiws. When they enter a room some people starts to cry, many lay's down on the floor and do "I'm not worthy".
Anybody who remember Barcelona 1992 or Atlanta 1996 know what I mean. Icons! Living legends! Larger then life characters! You name it and they had it. How often do you see Messi meeting world famous or political leaders? Is there anyone outside the football world who recognize him for other then fancy skills and nice goals? Not even his own people worship him. Strange? The best ever..
To (maybe) have the best football skills ever and score shiteloads of goals isn't good enough. You need to have it all and deliver on all stages. Come back when he has won a World Cup or two and when you see him shine besides presidents and real superstars. The day when Messi deliver the whole package and is prime time all over the world for no reasons at all other then being himself we can talk.
Not sure about that. Maradona and Ali were nutcases,clearly unique once in a lifetime characters. Jordan was huge but that's more down to an amazing marketing campaign rather than his personality.
Take other greats from other sports- Bjorg, Federer, Tendulkar, Schumacher- you'd find more charisma in an Avram Grant post match interview.
It's not a crime for Messi to not ever reach Pele and Maradona.
He's the greatest of his generation and one of the best to ever pay the sport. I'm sure that's good enough for the lad. Lets not pretend he's not sitting at the round table eating turkey links even if it's not at the throne.
"Ayo, Zizou pass me some of those Mongolian Vegetable Crispies, merci beaucoup"
He comes across as a lad who doesn't understand the significance of what he's doing, to be this good you would think he will be extremely arrogant but he would probably rather be remembered for what he does off the pitch.
He's the greatest of his generation and one of the best to ever pay the sport. I'm sure that's good enough for the lad. Lets not pretend he's not sitting at the round table eating turkey links even if it's not at the throne.
"Ayo, Zizou pass me some of those Mongolian Vegetable Crispies, merci beaucoup"
He comes across as a lad who doesn't understand the significance of what he's doing, to be this good you would think he will be extremely arrogant but he would probably rather be remembered for what he does off the pitch.
It's not about being vocal though. I barely knew anything about zidane's personality off the pitch. On the pitch, though, he'd inspire quietly but to incredible amounts. Sachin was the same. Carrying a team on his back and bringing a nation together. These individuals have on the pitch personality to inspire to go with the ability to inspire that all great sportsman have.
Who said Messi isn't extremely arrogant?
This season he has a chance to make some history by leading his team to retain the unretainable CL, Zidane and Ronaldo both came within a game of doing it, it remains to be seen if he can take that extra step.
This season he has a chance to make some history by leading his team to retain the unretainable CL, Zidane and Ronaldo both came within a game of doing it, it remains to be seen if he can take that extra step.
He will no doubt go down as the best of this generation and by some distance. But like it is for all greats, the next question is 'how high can they go?'. So is the case with messi. Once you reach those levels you create expectations, possibilities in peoples minds of possibly reaching the absolute individual summit of your sport.
Although I'm not sure why you think people are pretending he's nowhere on the map at all. This thread clearly suggests otherwise.
I like your posts!
Pacquiao vs. Mohammad Ali
Sports purists vs. Typical housewife's
Ali was a nutcase.
Jordan was more down to an amazing marketing campaign.
I couldn't agree more... Well almost.. This spoiler is for you. Enjoy.
DQunyeUopwQ&feature=related[/media]
Messi is a phenomenal football player. I agree. His speed, control and skills is unique.
Well.. almost if we dismiss Maradona.
Even if he does you'll still talk shit about him let's be honest
I've said it many times, if he leads Argentina to the World Cup in Brasil, I'll never utter a bad word about him again, ever.
- Status