I thought they supported Italy, but were the only fans to respect the Argentine national anthem?
Lionel Messi
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I thought they supported Italy, but were the only fans to respect the Argentine national anthem?
do you remember that game between france and brazil in 1986? zico and platini?
what a show they gave! and they both missed penalties
i think that was one of the best games i ever saw
of course they supported italy, it was their national team, but their support wasnt as loud as it would have been in the olimpic stadium of rome or in the san ciro
anyway, it was more the fear of the papers than what actually happened
I was at school! proper gutted when I came back home...and saw the result. I thought Zico was past his prime in 86. Do you rememeber Socrates missed spot kick, though? It may've been against France come to think of it. He didn't take a run up...and missed. Brazilians eh.
IMVHO there's a difference between proving you can do it, with actually doing it
cruyf didn't win the world cup, but he proved he could
messi didn't prove he could win it, not yet
That is because you refuse to acknowledge the significance of international football.
I dont by that at all. I mean, when the Barca side went to shit and he was the only one shining pre Guardiola, he wasn't performing better than he is doing now.
It really isn't. Great players shine even brighter amongst a collection of super stars. that's a given.
However it takes far more for a great player whilst surrounded by merely good and ok players, to outshine other greats surrounded by super stars, whilst competing on the same plane. Or to do it Pele style and shine brightest amongst super stars when you are just a wee teenager. Then continue to do so till you retire. Messi has loads to do before the can math them to fellas. I assure you.
If he makes it I'll be very happy. For the last persons who had a chance, namely Ronaldo Da Lima and Ronaldinho, were stopped by injury and lack of motivation respectively.
& in selfish sense, Id like us to stop having too look back to the 'great old days' to pick a player at the top end of the football legend pyramid. It would be nice to have one in this era.
I'm not having another one of these arguments in this thread!
yes, socrates missed it, in was during the shoot out
platini missed one then too
but zico missed during extra time, around minute 114 or something, for you it was heartbreaking, for us, argentinians, was great, we hate brazilian team -we love brazil, but our football rivalry is deep-
i remember a french player called Fernandez, he played in gerrards position, he was one of the best i ever seen in that role
even though, they had platini and he was in a brilliant form, fernandez was the spirit of france
Thats what I'm saying. Playing well enough to be world cup winner is enough although that might sound funny. As long as you perform at a level truly worthy of the greatest it should be enough no matter how the rest perform.
Surely it's a question of individual talent rather than talking about which cups they've won? Messi will need to win at least one WC to permanently put himself above Maradona, but if it's a question of just talent it's a close call. Both different era's and both magical players within their respective eras.
It's never about talent. It's about performances and how well you use those talents and of course inspire others.
Of course Messi can win it, he's the best player in the world by some distance. A decent manager and he'll have a great shot. His problem might be his next tournament is on Brazilian soil!
Matters sod all whether one has the ability. He has to go out there perform like the greatest ever without necessarily winning it. Him was the best player in the world last year but he was very underwhelming outshone by the likes of forlan.
It all comes back to your talent though. Messi's talent inspires those around him, Maradona did the same and so did Best, Zidane and Cruijff.
well. Maradona, pele and Cruyf led their teams to world cup finals
messi still needs to prove ha can do that
the thing is that those first three players set the bar that high, is it fair? what can i say? its unfair, giggsy wont be regarded that way, best, george weah, a lot of players that werent able to lead their national team to final games
but why a player that plays like maradona but didn't win as much as maradona did will be regarded as good as him?
It doesn't. It comes from having the talent, using that talent correctly and raising yourself for the big occasion. If it was purely based on ability the top three players in the world would the top three players at the wc in its everutime edition.
I don't think the Brazlian side's as well loved as it used to be. Most kids supported Brazil as their second side in 82 and 86. For us, it was the first time we got to see the likes of Zico and Socrates. I was always Robbo and Zico in the playground (Zico as a consequence of Espana 82). I must admit to laughing when Maradona got sent off against Brazil. Oh and I used to have an argument with everyone at school including my teacher during the82 WC. 'Who's the best player in the world?!' they'd ask, I'd say 'Zico!!'...and my teacher would chuckle, and say 'it's Maradona, kiddo' And basically put me in my place...
And if Messi doesn't win a world cup, but shatters his club achievements?
I think we have to be fair about the yardsticks of judgement we use
guys, not only talent, not only winning
luck plays a major role
maradona with argentina had a set of very good players, not only that, the argentinian FA appointed the right coach in the right time, and, during the 1986 world cup, we where lucky enough to have a ref that didn't see the blatant hand of god
plus, that world cup was held in mexico, in europe or brazil would have been harder
do you think georgie best could have led argentina as maradona or england as charlton or hurst? probably, he had the skills and the winning mentality, but unlucky for him he wasnt born in argentina or -for the same purpose, in england-
luck plays a major role
maradona with argentina had a set of very good players, not only that, the argentinian FA appointed the right coach in the right time, and, during the 1986 world cup, we where lucky enough to have a ref that didn't see the blatant hand of god
plus, that world cup was held in mexico, in europe or brazil would have been harder
do you think georgie best could have led argentina as maradona or england as charlton or hurst? probably, he had the skills and the winning mentality, but unlucky for him he wasnt born in argentina or -for the same purpose, in england-
Yes but I think being surrounded by such fantastic players at international level, if is indeed the greatest, he should be able to at least play like it and put in super human performances, if unable to do that and win it.
of course, he can, look at Distefano, he didn't win a world cup, but what he did for real madrid was so impresive that he is regarded as one of the best players ever
but messi hasnt even reach that
btw, distafano is a product of river plate youth program
as i said before, why a player that has the same skills as maradona will be regarded as good as him if he doesnt achieve the same silverware?
anyway, is all a matter of opinions
and i swear to god that theres nothing -international football speaking- that i would love more than to see messi winning several world cups with argentina
as i said in another thread, if we conquer the world cup in brazil -for what it means- i'll be drunk for four years, to get sober just in time to see the next world cup
i think messi can lead argentina to new world cups, but he still needs to prove it
maradona was at that time, what messi is now, the prospect of one of the gratest players ever
Well you're all idiots.
Ando's going to be the greatest ever.
You'll see!
Ando's going to be the greatest ever.
You'll see!
Very true
The only issue I have is the conventional wisdom that, for club and country, Maradona was a one man team. Star player sure, greatest ever maybe, but one man team absolutely not. And it becomes a pedestal no one else can compete against
Fact is, Messi has done more and arguably shown more by this age of 23, as Maradona had by the same point, so evidently the comparisons are anything but ridiculous
There is no such thing as a one man team. At least not one that wins anything
i agree with you in both statements
theres a huge misconception here in the caf about argentina side in 1986, maradona was the star but he was playing along very good players, i said this a few months ago, i'm not going to repeat myself, so i'll quote me:
and about messi achieving more at 23 years old than maradona at that same age, you are spot on
but i still think we have to wait to see how he develops
wow, a serious post from marcos.Who would have thought ?
RIP Marcos
I'm not having another one of these arguments in this thread!
Apparently Guardiola let go of his pent emotions today
Magnificent goal, the game absolutely didn't deserve it. They couldn't even get close enough to chop him down. I made it about 7 between him and the goal when he picked it up
Two on the night, and for the most part they'd done a good job keeping him quiet. It's bordering on ridiculous
Two on the night, and for the most part they'd done a good job keeping him quiet. It's bordering on ridiculous
52 goals this season now. 11 in 11 CL games.
And another 'critique' wiped. "messi only scored in the final, where is he in the semis?"
And another 'critique' wiped. "messi only scored in the final, where is he in the semis?"
Reminded me of Maradona's goal against Belgium.
What a goal.He cut through their defense like a knife would through butter.He really loves scoring against them doesn't he ?
52 goals btw
52 goals btw
They put Pepe on him, and after he and Mourinho was sent off, well...
He's the best player in the world, no doubt, but for the love of ass, please don't crown him GOAT
Why not?
Because you can't say that. You haven't been alive all the time. Simple as that.
Make do with greatest of his generation or last 20 years.
That's true. You can't do that with football in particular.
Of all time.
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