Pele never played competively in Europe for a whole season - for that he will never be the best in my opinion. The World Cup is no way to judge talent, it's a tournament anything can happen..
Lionel Messi
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Pele never played competively in Europe for a whole season - for that he will never be the best in my opinion. The World Cup is no way to judge talent, it's a tournament anything can happen..
Agreed. I have no idea why people constantly harp on about the World Cup as if it is the great objective measure of a player's ability. It's not really a great indicator at all. Admittedly, it can give indications regarding a player's adaptability and mentality, but I don't see why people use it as a stick to beat Messi and others players with just because Maradona won it. It's, what, 7 or 8 games?
It's weird, especially in an age whereby many people don't give anywhere near as much of a shit about international football as they do about their own clubs. Club football is a much better indicator, and I sometimes think there is a distinction to be made here between 'best' and 'greatest'.
Agreed@ people comparing Messi to Pele and Maradona
Going by your username, like me, I'm assuming you were born in 1991. Given this, are you really in a good enough position to say with certainty that Messi (at this age) was not on Maradona's level?
his short cameo at the weekend
Because anyone who has ever seen like mere recordings of Pele playing at his peak should be able to understand for a Maradona to even be considered better than him by some, the fella had to be more than just special.
In short if you consider Messi great. You are out of words to describe Maradona & Pele's footballing ability.
Was at the Osasuna game on Saturday. Only played 40 mins, but he oozes quality on the ball. His goal summed it up.
Because anyone who has ever seen like mere recordings of Pele playing at his peak should be able to understand for a Maradona to even be considered better than him by some, the fella had to be more than just special.
In short if you consider Messi great. You are out of words to describe Maradona & Pele's footballing ability.
If you played a load of Messi clips to somone in 50 years, they would've been lost for words trying to describe the genius of him on the basis of that, and that's only after about 5 years of him playing professionally. I've seen most of Pele's and Maradona's recordings, and they don't necessarily look better than Messi.
I'm not saying Messi is as good as or better (I'm not in a position to do that either) - just pointing out that it's a bit difficult to make a claim like that given his position.
Oh, come on? You MUST know that I don't reckon Maradona would win it on his own?
Barca might miss him, but they have plenty of talent, enough to see them challenge in the top of La Liga and CL... The same wasn't the case for Napoli in their years without Maradona. Messi's still young, a few years younger than Maradona in his best and most winning years, but he's not the same heart-beat in the team that Maradona often was.
I know full well that Napoli had qualities, as did the Argentine sides he got to the final of the World Cup, but there's plenty of evidence to point to Maradona being the undisputed talisman of every title winning side he was in.
Barca without Messi look like a completely different team.
Yeh, that's what amazes me when people go on about Messi being all that partly because of this team. They miss him more than they miss any other player.
They confidently talk out of their arse, such bollocks does usually come with some agenda though.
saying that Barca might miss the best player in the world, is like saying that we might miss Cristiano Ronaldo
He's such a feature of the team that I've not seen too many matches without him, I'll admit... but it's not as if they have a shedload of talent in that position, so of course the team looks different. But even if that's the case, he's not at the heart of their game dictating play as often as Maradona was, which sets him apart for me.
He'll have to become more influential in more ways before I'll regard him up there with el Diego.
That's actually quite stunning feat.
No way. Mate we have tapes of Pele to just to keep us busy. Yet those who played with him and are considered football legends of all time like Beckenbauer say Pele bests them all! Ranked higher than men like Best, Di Stefano and Cruyff. A dude who scored a hatrick (IIRC) in a world final at age 17! Then Diego who some of us did watch came along several years later and many of those men began to even reconsider. Dude, I kid you not when I say Pele was a footballing god. Yet Diego made them re-think?
Messi is great man. But not in that league.
Yes, and you're clearly an eloquent and nuanced lad.
Care to point out what's shit about the gist of my point? Do you really think Messi exerts as much influence as Maradona in his pomp?
To help them do that, or to never be able to win the Serie A? Can't tell whether you're bigging up Maradona or shitting on Serie A
Cavani almost lead Napoli to a Serie A title this season.....
He must be up there with the greats surely....
He must be up there with the greats surely....
Ridiculous, sure... But Spain's hardly a defensive bastion... we've recently been shitting on Valencia for having such a gulf between them and Real... And goals and assists-wise he's the most ridiculous thing I've seen, that much is true... but that's about his involvement in the final third... I'm talking about Maradona's ability to switch play, to set up attacks with a lofted through ball with back spin, the playmaking that doesn't show up in stats... I know this conveniently places me in the territory of the unverifiable, which makes me a bit uncomfortable, but having watched my share of Maradona matches, as well as Messi matches, I just don't see Messi being as important to the overall play of the team as Maradona was.
Is that at all fair enough, or am I still just talking out of my arse?
Yet in comparison Napoli with out Maradona proved a nothing team for years on end. Spot the difference yet?
To help them do that, or to never be able to win the Serie A? Can't tell whether you're bigging up Maradona or shitting on Serie A
For a player to be so decisive in an club's fortunes.
We're going to win titles without Ronaldo, hopefully the league soon. And Barca won things before Messi. Not drawing a conclusion but for a club to not win it before or after Maradona's time is pretty insane.
Seriously, why can't people not rate Messi or Ronaldo as high as you without you getting so defensive?
The guy is 'talking shit' if he doesn't put Messi up there with Maradona?
That and drawing them to their only European title as well... the man was clearly a freak... Watching touchline clips of him dribbling his way through hordes of heavy-handed Italian defenders for Napoli is absolutely insane... I always start laughing because he's so untouchable...
If I'm not mistaken I think the same happened to Santos post Pele.
Sorry if this is deviating but is there any way to download all of that all together and not one by one? It takes me ages to do one game.
Lets put it this way, if Messi was signed back then, you don't reckon he wouldv'e lifted Napoli either?
Was Maradona surrounded by pure shit or was he the catalyst to success.
In my opinion it's a fantastic feat and it makes the story the more romantic.
but when it comes to individual ability my mind is firmly made up.
Seriously, why can't people not rate Messi or Ronaldo as high as you without you getting so defensive?
The guy is 'talking shit' if he doesn't put Messi up there with Maradona?
the feck?
I'm aware of their achievements, but it's all relative. What Messi is doing at this age and in this day of football is just astonishing. We will have to see come the end of their careers, but if Messi merely sustains what he is doing now, I see no reason why the comparison cannot be upheld.
On another note, what I find interesting is that people haven't considered the possibility (whilst making the comparison) that Messi may actually perform even better in a team that does not have that many superstars (something we haven't yet seen). Who is to say that he wouldn't relish being by far the best player in a team? If anything, it is even more staggering that he stands out amongst other incredibly gifted individuals - something which many United players in recent years have struggled to do (I'm thinking along the lines Rooney, Nani, Berbatov and Tevez during Ronaldo's pomp here).
Sorry to say, the only way is as described in that forum. :S
No player can take a team to honors surrounded by pure shit. You need a TEAM to win things. But obviously levels of dependancy vary.
And question is not whether he would have lifted them. Rooney would probably lift any team. It's whether he would take them that far. Thing is, it's so hard to answer these questions about Messi and Ronaldo because they have so far only inspired already great teams. Or at least very good ones. So it's all subjective.
It's not how you paint it, I don't think I've ever seen you mention another player on that Napoli team.
edit , i thought I was talking to Eriku there
why on earth do you keep bringing up Ronaldo? we're talking about the very greatest here, all respect to the portugese, put that fanboi stuff elsewhere.
You do it with both but it's okay if you disagree.
I think you need to relax. You've come into this thread fretting and fuming!
Indeed, people do tend to ignore this.
To stand out like he does in such a technical gifted team shows you the sort of player he is.
is this some strange type of reverse psychology?, plus don't you reckon you're starting to follow me around a bit much these days?
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