I forecast Man Utd to win the league last year and this, I've been saying this week you're still favourites to do it since you're played a lot of difficult fixtures, I pick 4 united players in the best-ever England XI - if I was any more unbiased I'd be supporting you (I draw the line at saying Tevez is world class though).
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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'Messi has already done things that Ronaldo will never do. FACT.'
That was from your own mouth...
Hmmm....
If you read what i said, it clearly states more often than everyone else, nowhere does it say better than everyone else?! But if i'm telling the truth what can you do.
'Messi has already done things that Ronaldo will never do. FACT.'
That was from your own mouth...
Hmmm....
If you read what i said, it clearly states more often than everyone else, nowhere does it say better than everyone else?! But if i'm telling the truth what can you do.
Yes and like it or not Messi has done things that Ronaldo will never do. That is life, he cant go back in time and change that. I know it was a crap argument from me, i was rising to some rather obvious and rubbish bait.
However it doesnt change the facts. As a statement, as shit as it is it is still true.
Your statement on the other hand is typical of someone who can't see any flaws in Ronaldo, you see only what you want to see.
It fact just like yours 'claims to be' It's that double edge sword again, why is my statement not fact when its clear as crystal that Ronaldo's performances over the last 2 years have surpassed anyone elses on the planet. Whether he has flaws or not if he has performed better than anyone else, then his performed better than anyone else. You can't make a statement and then go against it. You've just said, 'However it doesnt change the facts. As a statement, as shit as it is it is still true.'. Back to back player of the year awards in the premiership. FACT.
Performances are open to interpretation. Facts arn't.
If you said Ronaldo scored more goals than any other player then i can't argue becaue it is a fact.
But if it was so clear then there is no way it would even be debateable that Ronaldo is the best player in the world. It is debatable, not everyone is of the opinion. Infact maybe even more think Messi is a better player.
But you can't give me a fact about Messi that is true to your statment or back up he is a better player.
Because there are no facts to decide who is a better player.
People give there reasons and you can agree or disagree. I've given my reasons for Messi being the best many times and you clearly disagree like i disagree with you.
I don't think United would have won the double last season if Messi and Ronaldo had swapped teams before the season.
Do you agree Frankly?
Do you agree Frankly?
Due to injuries i doubt it.
Even with no injuires, I doubt it.
I've created a monster.
Excellent to see some good debate finally hit the Caf again. Albeit if it's mostly people jumping down pro-Messi people's throats.
Excellent to see some good debate finally hit the Caf again. Albeit if it's mostly people jumping down pro-Messi people's throats.
That's a good question.
And whilst I'm still slightly pro-Messi (over Ronaldo) I'd like to pose the question - Could Messi be as dominant in England as Ronaldo is?
You'd think Ronaldo would most certainly be able to emulate his form from here, over in Spain.
Well it's a question that has no right answer.
In my opinion that season was a remarkable season and either by luck or genius the way United set up pretty much suited Ronaldo to a T.
But by the same tolken i don't think if you put Ronaldo into Barca they would have won much.
Also i think many players should be given a lot more credit. Ronaldo had a great season but he wasn't the only reason. Take away some other players and you wouldn't have won the double either.
Could Messi be as dominant in England as Ronaldo is?
No, I don't think so
You'd think Ronaldo would most certainly be able to emulate his form from here, over in Spain.
Yes, I would think so
No, I don't think so
You'd think Ronaldo would most certainly be able to emulate his form from here, over in Spain.
Yes, I would think so
I think you can tell from his performances against English opposition tha the would be a hit here.
I believe he'd take it by storm to be honest. No-one in the prem has his speed, ballance and ability to beat men. He doesn't go to ground easily either so he wouldn't get tagged as a diver.
In short i have absolutely no doubt that Messi would be a sensation where ever he played.
People raved about Zarate when he first came here, Tevez at west ham etc
Ronaldo can't wait to play in spain and i don't doubt he would be a success where ever he played. Might not be the 30 goal a season he can be in the prem though.
Despite alot of opinion on spanish defending you don't often get individual players scoring that amount of goals in spain.
I think Barca would have won the CL if Ronaldo had played for them last season.
I am not saying Ronaldo was the only reason to our success.
A hit, no doubt.
As dominant as Ronaldo, doubtful. He hasn't got the same physical attributes that Ronaldo has.
Though we really can't take that much from the Chelsea clash.
Yes, they're a fantastic side from England, but playing in Europe is a whole different kettle of fish to your stock standard Premier Leaguie game.
I think he'd get fouled an absolute feckload, and be quite a brilliant player still, but I doubt he'd ever emulate Ronaldo's form.
Yes, they're a fantastic side from England, but playing in Europe is a whole different kettle of fish to your stock standard Premier Leaguie game.
I think he'd get fouled an absolute feckload, and be quite a brilliant player still, but I doubt he'd ever emulate Ronaldo's form.
True but he is strong with a low center of gravity.
I really don't think Barca would have won anything last season even if they had Ronaldo. You have to take into account the state of the team, mentality and form of players. United had great spirit and great team ethic. Barca were a team very much in need of change.
Ronaldo wouldn't be able to score as many goals and would have to adapt to a totally different system. One not built (deliberately or not) to serve his talents best.
The only way we'll ever find out the truth to this is if Ronaldo joins Madrid and Messi ends up in the prem. One seems likely at some point, the other i can't really see happening.
He gets the shit kicked out him in spain. He's used to it, you get more cynical foulers in italy and spain than in England.
I don't see Ronaldo getting absolutely battered in every game so i see no reason why Messi would.
Strong etc Messi might be, but he still wouldn't get at the end of crosses and score vital goals with his head, for example.
But, as you say, it is impossible to know.
I just find it weird how anyone can say that one is better than the other, as you do. It is the same for those claiming categorically that Ronaldo is better than Messi.
Ronaldo gets cynically fouled in every single game.
But he is a beast physically, so can take more of that than Messi. Hence probably why Messi is more injured than Ronaldo.
I just find it hard to think that anyone called Lionel could possibly be the best footballer in the world.
Well that is where people are mistaken. Messi takes it as much and as well as anyone. His injuries have never been the direct result of tackles (although that fact is a little more worrying) because he is always being tackled. I've seen Messi take the ball and be fouled 3 or 4 times before he is brought down. Ronaldo goes to ground an awful lot and very easily for such a physical beast. Then he procedes to wave his arms around in disbelief, even when it's very soft he has this reaction. Messi gets fouled and fouled but he doesn't give up and look for the foul because he always feels he can do more with the ball after these fouls than a resulting free kick would bring.
Your right about Messi not getting into the box to head in goals. Get it into his feet in the box and he'll do something. Even saying that most of his best work is creative, laying on chances for others and overall working for the team.
Course not. If Ronaldo had gone to Real this summer, most of us in our wet dreams would've wanted Messi to replsce him. However, deep down you knew that would've weakened the side rather than visa versa. Messi is brilliant, there's no question about that, but how can any player replace Ronaldo at United?
Exactly, Ronaldo and United have worked out how to get the best out of each other.
I could use Henry as an example of this, at Arsenal he had grown into/been groomed into the roll he had and he was brilliant. One of the best prem players ever in honesty but move him to Barca and he has to start again, change his style and play differently to suit his new team.
That could happen with Ronaldo, or Messi too. BUt for now Ronaldo is built for United and alot of that is probably down to his own hard work and dedication and the great job SAF and co have done with him. And his team mates of course.
I could use Henry as an example of this, at Arsenal he had grown into/been groomed into the roll he had and he was brilliant. One of the best prem players ever in honesty but move him to Barca and he has to start again, change his style and play differently to suit his new team.
That could happen with Ronaldo, or Messi too. BUt for now Ronaldo is built for United and alot of that is probably down to his own hard work and dedication and the great job SAF and co have done with him. And his team mates of course.
See, this post really shows why you can't objectively discuss and compare the two players, because you clearly really like Messi and are obvious no fan of Ronaldo.
Ronaldo being a cnut, a cheat and his antics have no relevance to how good he is as a footballer.
As for Messi not having been directly injured by tackles, that is all well and good. But all the tackles he and Ronaldo suffer must take their toll on their bodies, and seemingly more so for Messi.
To be fair, Henry looked like he had lost a yard of pace prior to his Barca move. He simply hasn;t adapted without his lightening pace and acceleration.
You make a point about Messi not being able to take the tackles. BUt he's as good at avoiding them as anyone else in the game. His injuries are probably a result of his body not taking the style he has. All the quick burst and sharp turns are what has seen him injured in the past. He always pulls up when running, never seen him taken off from a challenge ever.
Saying that every player is a split second away from serious injury with the pace of the game these days.
My point was that Messi does ride tackles and take kicks as well if not better than Ronaldo.
Fitness is a big part of football today. I don't buy that luck-injury myth people perpetuate. There is a reason why some players keep getting injured in regular intervals while others like Ronaldo go two to three season without getting a major injury.
Well many factors. Luck, genetics, training, diet. Things add up, i'm not sure what you are insinuating though.
That's bollocks.
We're in a thread about Messi and you're trying to claim that Ronaldo beats a man more often than him, which is unreal.
Really?
He would have started twice as many matches, and would've undoubtedly scored more goals, and some of the chances that he would've got layed onto him by Iniesta and Xavi with the form they were on makes it seem like a real possibility that he could've made the difference.
Frankly, if any of the top sides in Europe replaced their own right winger with one that scored 42 goals, it would have been that side that scooped up the trophies and not United, in all likelihood.
We simply cannot say the same about Messi at the moment. He doesn't have the same end product as Ronaldo. That isn't a criticism, because Ronaldo is on another planet in that respect.
Messi is a great player, but Ronaldo is better at the moment.
We simply cannot say the same about Messi at the moment. He doesn't have the same end product as Ronaldo. That isn't a criticism, because Ronaldo is on another planet in that respect.
Messi is a great player, but Ronaldo is better at the moment.
Do you think Ronaldo would be allowed to play like he does here elsewhere?
He's no winger. He scores an absolute feckload of his goals straight through the middle - starting from the middle and finishing in the middle.He's got a free role, at best, that starts from the right side of the pitch.
Not a knock, but this winger thing is totally misleading.
This Messi vs. Ronaldo thing simply comes down to which style pleases the recipient more. There's no defining performances from either to truly seperate them to date. Having said that, I'd think Messi is the one who's more likely to go out and truly dominate a tournament, but over a league campaign Ronaldo is most likely to always have him beat.
So, what you are saying here is that Ronaldo is more consistent than Messi. Hence, ronnie will always be a better player?
So, what you are saying here is that Ronaldo is more consistent than Messi. Hence, ronnie will always be a better player?
Lighting up a short competition like the world cup or the Champions League will arguably do more for a player's reputation than league titles.
Ronnie could carry on a whole career of battering weaker sides and not looking like the same player vs the better ones in the league. I don't think that'd do wonders for his legacy, however.
Can Messi be as dominant as Ronaldo in England.
Yes, if he plays for United or Arsenal...I cannot see Ronaldo cutting it to this extent had he played for Chelsea or Pool.
As for Ronaldo in Spain it tough for him to replicate his United form even at Barca but can still come out good.
Why any team wouldnt give Ronaldo a free role if it means he's gonna score that much? Sounds like some real bullshit to me.
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