Why any team wouldnt give Ronaldo a free role if it means he's gonna score that much? Sounds like some real bullshit to me.
See, this post really shows why you can't objectively discuss and compare the two players, because you clearly really like Messi and are obvious no fan of Ronaldo.
Ronaldo being a cnut, a cheat and his antics have no relevance to how good he is as a footballer.
As for Messi not having been directly injured by tackles, that is all well and good. But all the tackles he and Ronaldo suffer must take their toll on their bodies, and seemingly more so for Messi.
Ronaldo's current free role in United is not much different to Ronaldinhio at Barca or Kaka at Milan. No fixed position and allowed to wander switch between left, right and central positions. No one has matched Ronaldo's prolificness. You may say that Ronaldo is not a traditional winger but he does not play like a tranditional striker as well. And in big matches, take CL final for example he does normally stick to one side of the pitch.Do you think Ronaldo would be allowed to play like he does here elsewhere?
He's no winger. He scores an absolute feckload of his goals straight through the middle - starting from the middle and finishing in the middle.He's got a free role, at best, that starts from the right side of the pitch.
Not a knock, but this winger thing is totally misleading.
This Messi vs. Ronaldo thing simply comes down to which style pleases the recipient more. There's no defining performances from either to truly seperate them to date. Having said that, I'd think Messi is the one who's more likely to go out and truly dominate a tournament, but over a league campaign Ronaldo is most likely to always have him beat.
That is also because that you get away with some fouls in England which are called in Spain. Ronaldo will win more fouls playing in Spain.Last time I checked for the last two seasons, Messi has been the most fouled player in Spain, more than Ronaldo in Englant
Ronaldo is physically stronger but dont think he has got a very nasty one from any cnut so far.
That is also because that you get away with some fouls in England which are called in Spain. Ronaldo will win more fouls playing in Spain.
This is rubbish. Messi himself has a free role at Barca. Kaka is not tactically shackled at Milan as well. You will see him taking on a defender on the left quite a few times. Though this season it has been limited due to Ronaldinhio's presence.Because outside of us, most teams are extremely rigid with regard to positioning on the pitch.
To be honest, the best thing Ronnie could ever do for himself is stay here if he wants to truly fulfil his potential.
A move to Real could feck him right up.
And that is relevant how?bet you he will be diving for them more over there as well when he transfers.
And that is relevant how?
I did not bring it up. I just pointed out you get more fouls in spain be it for dives or genuine offences. Ronaldo too will get more calls in his favor in Spain than he does in England.that the whole 'winning fouls' aspect doesn't really mean that much, particularly in spain where players dive all over the shop.
I did not bring it up. I just pointed out you get more fouls in spain be it for dives or genuine offences. Ronaldo too will get more calls in his favor in Spain than he does in England.
No, you're mistaken.Ronaldo's current free role in United is not much different to Ronaldinhio at Barca or Kaka at Milan. No fixed position and allowed to wander switch between left, right and central positions. No one has matched Ronaldo's prolificness. You may say that Ronaldo is not a traditional winger but he does not play like a tranditional striker as well. And in big matches, take CL final for example he does normally stick to one side of the pitch.
This is rubbish. Messi himself has a free role at Barca. Kaka is not tactically shackled at Milan as well. You will see him taking on a defender on the left quite a few times. Though this season it has been limited due to Ronaldinhio's presence.
Real too don't have a frigid system. Ruud for one has actually been more mobile at Real than he was at United during his last two seasons.
Messi does not switch wings ala Ronaldo/United otherwise he does have the freedom to pop up anywhere. He plays on the right but he does not have any defensive responsibilities like traditional wingers in an English team do. Ronaldo's role seems more free because he spends less time on the ball than Messi and makes runs off the ball. Same with Kaka's role in last two seasons. When played behind the striker he had the freedom to pop up anywhere.No, you're mistaken.
They barely left their nominal position and most certainly weren't free to do what they wanted.
Our Ron has complete free rein over the pitch when we attack and can literally end up anywhere in the final 3rd in pursuit of a goal. He's the only player in the world at a top, top team allowed to do that for entire seasons.
I didn't say anything about Ronaldo being a striker, because he isn't one, nor is he any kind of conventional winger. The best description of him is simply 'forward' or wing-forward, if you're being picky.
Messi plays on the right of a 4-3-3 and always does. He may carry the ball across field a few times, but he is not free to do as he pleases.
You can't possibly be saying any of those teams allow the kind of freedom for their players that we do.
Messi does not switch wings ala Ronaldo/United otherwise he does have the freedom to pop up anywhere. He plays on the right but he does not have any defensive responsibilities like traditional wingers in an English team do. Ronaldo's role seems more free because he spends less time on the ball than Messi and makes runs off the ball. Same with Kaka's role in last two seasons. When played behind the striker he had the freedom to pop up anywhere.
Ronaldinhio at Barca used to switch between left and central positions. Many times you could see Etoo sticking to the left for a considerable periods in a match and Ronaldinhio attacking from the middle.
Messi does not switch wings ala Ronaldo/United otherwise he does have the freedom to pop up anywhere. He plays on the right but he does not have any defensive responsibilities like traditional wingers in an English team do. Ronaldo's role seems more free because he spends less time on the ball than Messi and makes runs off the ball. Same with Kaka's role in last two seasons. When played behind the striker he had the freedom to pop up anywhere.
Ronaldinhio at Barca used to switch between left and central positions. Many times you could see Etoo sticking to the left for a considerable period in a match and Ronaldinhio attacking from the middle.
As soon as we get the ball Ronaldo can go where he pleases, and does. This makes him quite unique in the modern game and we cater for that absolutely. No other club side would allow Ron so much freedom.
And when Messi gets the ball, he is restricted to stay with it only on the right side? No, he cuts in very often as well and dribbles past players be it on right or center. As I said the difference is when Ronaldo cuts in he passes the ball and makes the run inside the box while Messi sticks with the ball to eventually play someone else in or play a 1-2 with someone at the edge of the ball or just try to run through everyone alone. He is free to do whatever he pleases to; does not have a designated role to just run down on the right and cross the ball in.
You are right about the Ronaldinhio/Etoo thing. But in certain matches Ronaldo has been restricted in his movement. I am pretty sure he stuck to the left as a proper winger during the CL final and still performed well.
And if a club does buy Ronaldo off us, I am sure they will build their whole set up around him. Whether they will emulate our success is a different issue.
The reason I say Ronaldo is free to do as he pleases is because he doesn't have to be near the ball to roam - we can be attacking down the left side and you'll see Ronaldo standing in a centre-forward's spot for the duration of the play. In fact, Ronnie can start a run from deep in the middle of the pitch and run straight into the penalty area to get on the end of a play... no-one else who is a 'winger' does that in the game.
Because we don't have a proper out-and-out striker up top, Ronaldo has even more freedom to go where he wants as you'll often see Berbatov or Rooney dropping deep, well, certainly behind Ronaldo for the whole of play. No other club has a front line that would legislate for that and an Eto'o, Ruud or Raul are not going to be happy with someone encroaching on their space like that, whislt our lot are used to it and have grown together with this style of play.
We've completely catered for Ronaldo's game and let him do pretty much what he wants on and off the ball when we attack. Once the attack is over you see him drop back to his nominal position of 'winger' again.
I doubt Real Madrid with all the huge egos they have there would give him the same freedom.
Except when we had proper central forwards like Saha and Larsson in 2006/7, Ronaldo supplied a lot of crosses for them. Right now we don't and he makes those runs to fill that void. He would still be a great player if he reverted to the same role from that season.The reason I say Ronaldo is free to do as he pleases is because he doesn't have to be near the ball to roam - we can be attacking down the left side and you'll see Ronaldo standing in a centre-forward's spot for the duration of the play. In fact, Ronnie can start a run from deep in the middle of the pitch and run straight into the penalty area to get on the end of a play... no-one else who is a 'winger' does that in the game.
Because we don't have a proper out-and-out striker up top, Ronaldo has even more freedom to go where he wants as you'll often see Berbatov or Rooney dropping deep, well, certainly behind Ronaldo for the whole of play. No other club has a front line that would legislate for that and an Eto'o, Ruud or Raul are not going to be happy with someone encroaching on their space like that, whislt our lot are used to it and have grown together with this style of play.
We've completely catered for Ronaldo's game and let him do pretty much what he wants on and off the ball when we attack. Once the attack is over you see him drop back to his nominal position of 'winger' again.
I doubt Real Madrid with all the huge egos they have there would give him the same freedom.
Ruud was hinderance to Ron's game. He didn't play the same then as he does now.But whilst Ruud was here Ronaldo still made them runs!! Ruud just got their first or was on the end of most of them. It's part of a players make up to make last ditch runs not because of the system, i.e. Scholes always made them runs regardless if he was playing for us or England. Plus i don't agree Ronaldo has more freedom than everyone else, he just likes gettin involved a lot and because he's so good Fergie allows him to stroll, but players like Zidane and Ronaldinho where also given them roles and they where mainly left wingers on the team sheet.
' A lot of crosses' compared to who? He put in a decent amount of crosses for Ronaldo, compare it to a Young or Downing and it'd be about a quarter of the output.Except when we had proper central forwards like Saha and Larsson in 2006/7, Ronaldo supplied a lot of crosses for them. Right now we don't and he makes those runs to fill that void. He would still be a great player if he reverted to the same role from that season.
The second part of the post is just wrong. It was not that long ago when lot of the clubs played with two proper CFs who tried to get at the end of the same chances. Not everyone played with a striker and deep lying forward or a front three formation. Playing alongside someone like Ruud, Ronaldo probably won't score 40+ goals. But I don't think there will be any sort of bust up between the two because they are both busting a gut to score goals. Someone like Raul already started playing a deeper role when Fat Ron arrived at Real and continued to do so when Ruud replaced him. And as I already mentioned, Etoo was moved to left quite a few times to play Ronaldinhio through the middle.
These runs Ronaldo makes are also down to his own personal drive. Take his header against Roma in the away leg. You will never see Messi, Ronaldinhio or Kaka make such a run to score a header like that. It is not down to the fact if they have been given as much freedom to roam as Ronaldo. I doubt any manager would stop their attacking players to bust a gut to get at the end of such balls.
I have no idea where you are going now.
Firstly, you failed to address how Messi is playing without any freedom in Barca set up or much less freedom than Ronaldo.
I wrote the second part because you were the one who instead of putting forward a football argument went on to ramble about the squad dynamics with Ronaldo in a new team. There is absolutely no reason why another team can not base their play around Ronaldo like we have.
He did put in a lot of crosses and did have 22 assists in that season. Reason being that there were players in the box he could set up to score. Infact last season one of the reason of his low assists was the number of chances Rooney and Tevez squandered or no attacked his crosses in the box like a proper CF should. Messi himself does not play like a traditional winger so brining in likes of Young in the argument is pointless.
People rightly go on about the 42 goals. Because majority of these goals did not come with Ronaldo just hanging in the penalty box to wait for crosses. Even the majority of tap-ins he scored were as a result of a deep run, see his goal at Emirates or Villa away in FA cup.
Given this is mainly about Messi and Ronaldo. I will come back to my first point. Please explain how Messi plays will much less freedom than Ronaldo at Barca.
And certainly one that Henry has NEVER possessed.
He gets the shit kicked out him in spain. He's used to it, you get more cynical foulers in italy and spain than in England.
I don't see Ronaldo getting absolutely battered in every game so i see no reason why Messi would.
Ruud was hinderance to Ron's game. He didn't play the same then as he does now.
That's true, the only way to really dispossess Messi is by fouling him.
Ronaldo's rather strong though, he's able to keep his shape in tackles/challenged. Though Messi's got that unbelievable core/balance, so I think it would work out about the same in the end.
He would've been. Though Ronaldo back then was (obviously) nowhere near the player he is now.
If Ruud was around now then we'd probably see a different style of game from Ronaldo. I think that's why Ferguson opted for Tevez, because he and Rooney are both very mobile/versatile players. Ronaldo fits perfectly into that style of system.
He would've been. Though Ronaldo back then was (obviously) nowhere near the player he is now.
If Ruud was around now then we'd probably see a different style of game from Ronaldo. I think that's why Ferguson opted for Tevez, because he and Rooney are both very mobile/versatile players. Ronaldo fits perfectly into that style of system.
Ruud used to go apesit at Ronaldo for not releasing the ball as he wanted. They weren't compatible on the pitch because Ronaldo is his own man and so is Ruud and they both wanted the same limelight. It would take compromise from one of them to make it work.
Reaslistically, why would either of them want to do that? They're both brilliant at what they do, and I would be more than surprised if there wasn't big problems for a team like Real Madrid if Ronaldo went there.
They're a bunch of egotistical cnuts, like Ron.
Something would have to give.
You have not explained anything. Fact is Messi has as much freedom as Ronaldo at Barca. Only difference is he uses that freedom to move anywhere when he as the ball while Ronaldo uses it to makes run off the ball.I clearly have explained. The post below yours is a concise version if you think I 'rambled'.
Its the same with Ronaldo. You make it sound like Ronaldo is swapping wings every couple of mins. Messi cuts in as much as Ronaldo.Messi is restricted to his position. He can swap positions with other plays like Eto'o. But then Eto'o will stay on the right and Messi through the middle.
When Barca don't have the ball Messi will stay in position. When they do have the ball he will look to get the ball in the position he is playing. When he has the ball he does what he likes. His freedom comes from having the ball. Ronaldos freedom comes from the whole team having the ball.
You have not explained anything. Fact is Messi has as much freedom as Ronaldo at Barca. Only difference is he uses that freedom to move anywhere when he as the ball while Ronaldo uses it to makes run off the ball.
Your only argument against other teams not allowing Ronaldo the same freedom is that other players would throw a hissy fit.
That's bollocks.
Ronaldo has more freedom than anyone in this team.
Messi has just as much freedom as the other two forward players he plays with.
Thats because he can't play like Ronaldo!! He creates his own freedom and with players like Rooney and Tevez even with the addition of Berbatov he can get forward because they will switch roles and not just stay upfront. It's like saying we give Rooney freedom because he goes anywhere he likes, which is not the case thats just how he plays!!
How is Messi's role at Barca restricted? No one has explained this yet.That's bollocks.
Ronaldo has more freedom than anyone in this team.
Messi has just as much freedom as the other two forward players he plays with.
Thats because he can't play like Ronaldo!! He creates his own freedom and with players like Rooney and Tevez even with the addition of Berbatov he can get forward because they will switch roles and not just stay upfront. It's like saying we give Rooney freedom because he goes anywhere he likes, which is not the case thats just how he plays!!
