Missing the far superior assist total Messi managed over the course of the year. Only including goals does both players a disservice due to the fact neither are out and out strikers.
Lionel Messi
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Missing the far superior assist total Messi managed over the course of the year. Only including goals does both players a disservice due to the fact neither are out and out strikers.
Well that would be because the assist stat is a load of meaningless bollocks
of course it is, creating chances and setting up goals for others is pointless....
Of course not. Creating chances and setting up goals is one of the key fundamentals of the game, and one of the toughest things to do
But the way 'assists' are recorded is bollocks, to the point they're pretty meaningless, making it for me a pretty redundant stat
As pointed out many times already, Etoo & Henry finished far better than Rooney or Tevez managed in the previous season.
I fail to see how it's so amazing to "assist" like Messi did for Iniesta's goal at Chelsea.
I agree that the way they are recorded is shite but that still doesnt make it a redundant stat. It still tells you that a player directly laid onto a team mate who scored and that is important. Sure it doesnt take into account the times messi rips a team with brilliant play then lays it off to a team mate who in turn lays it off again (who then gets the assist for the stats) to a team mate who scores.
Point is Messi is not about goals and never has been. Ronaldo is all about goals now.
yeah passing the ball under pressure to the only team mate with any space is shite, Iniesta would have scored if he didnt recieve the ball... idiot.
That was one assist, he had many many more where he genuinely tore a side then laid it off for a tap in, or slotted a pass through the defence for a team mate to score. These are genuine world class assists but of course they mean nothing as long as Ronaldo isnt doing them and Messi is.
42 goals BPITWE!!!
You are the only person i think in the world who actually thinks Ronaldo 07/08 was better than Messi 08/09. As deluded and clueless as ever.
let me guess "SIR Alex told me so!!"
That's one scenario where it doesn't record accurately who truly created the goal. Another would be if Messi didn't even tough the ball, but made a run that created the space for another striker to move through on goal. And of course as Cal points out, a player can get an assist for a simple 2 yard pass, the striker produces a bit of magic and its a goal. And that's recorded in exactly the same way as if Messi takes on the entire team, rounds the keeper, and squares it back for the striker to tap in. And of course the ultimate problem with it; one player might play 10 balls through to the striker, who scores them all. Another player may play 10 identical balls through, and the striker misses them all. Both players have made the same quality assists, and yet one player has 10 official 'assists' to his name, while the other has zero. Doesn't really capture the essence of the play now, does it?
Of course not but it is highly unlikely that that is the case. You create chance after chance and you will end up with assists. Is it really any surprise that the great creative players in teams have the most assists? They are the players creating the most chances and they usually end up with the stats to back that up.
Yes it is flawed but it still tells a bit about a player, i mean if you get ZERO assists then you probably havent been laying on many clean cut chances because at this level if you create a clear as day chance then it has a good chance of being converted.
Regardless you or Cal or both talk about Ronaldo having shit assist stats due to missed chances, did either of you watch barca much? Messi creates for fun and there was a video posted earlier in this thread (maybe 50 pages ago
) highlighting his creativity in which so many chances he created were spurned. But then i forget that United are inferior to Barcelona now....
yeah passing the ball under pressure to the only team mate with any space is shite, Iniesta would have scored if he didnt recieve the ball... idiot.
That was one assist, he had many many more where he genuinely tore a side then laid it off for a tap in, or slotted a pass through the defence for a team mate to score. These are genuine world class assists but of course they mean nothing as long as Ronaldo isnt doing them and Messi is.
42 goals BPITWE!!!
You are the only person i think in the world who actually thinks Ronaldo 07/08 was better than Messi 08/09. As deluded and clueless as ever.
let me guess "SIR Alex told me so!!"
You seem hellbent on refusing to acknowledge Barca's better finishing in 08/09 compared to United 07/08, do you deny that Etoo & Henry finished better than Rooney or Tevez did?
In this thread alone there have been a few people who agreed with me, if it wasn't fashionable for United fans to talk down Ronaldo cos he left, there would be more.
If we're speaking of contribution then Ronaldo's contribution to United in 07/08 was far greater than Messi's to Barcelona.
United scored 110 goals in that season of which Ronaldo scored a staggering 42.
Barca scored a staggering 158 goals last season of which messi scored 38.
United scored 110 goals in that season of which Ronaldo scored a staggering 42.
Barca scored a staggering 158 goals last season of which messi scored 38.
Of course not but it is highly unlikely that that is the case. You create chance after chance and you will end up with assists. Is it really any surprise that the great creative players in teams have the most assists? They are the players creating the most chances and they usually end up with the stats to back that up.
Yes it is flawed but it still tells a bit about a player, i mean if you get ZERO assists then you probably havent been laying on many clean cut chances because at this level if you create a clear as day chance then it has a good chance of being converted.
Regardless you or Cal or both talk about Ronaldo having shit assist stats due to missed chances, did either of you watch barca much? Messi creates for fun and there was a video posted earlier in this thread (maybe 50 pages ago
But then i forget that United are inferior to Barcelona now....
Oh, one more factor is that there are more goals scored in La Liga than the PL, Barca in 08/09 scored many more goals than United did in 07/08. It's actually amazing for Ronaldo to outscore Messi in a lower scoring league.
I doubt the Messi camp will ever accept that.
Goals, goals, goals...
This thread is so shit, I don't even know what it's about anymore. It certainly is n't about Messi. Nobody seems to grasp that the same arguments have been going around in a circle for 117 pages
I reckon, if both keep fitness, and form and remain in settled sides, they should surpass that in the next 3 years. I believe they are more than capable. For experience should just make them more devastating. It's really a privilege to witness their era.
Of course not but it is highly unlikely that that is the case. You create chance after chance and you will end up with assists. Is it really any surprise that the great creative players in teams have the most assists? They are the players creating the most chances and they usually end up with the stats to back that up.
Yes it is flawed but it still tells a bit about a player, i mean if you get ZERO assists then you probably havent been laying on many clean cut chances because at this level if you create a clear as day chance then it has a good chance of being converted.
Regardless you or Cal or both talk about Ronaldo having shit assist stats due to missed chances, did either of you watch barca much? Messi creates for fun and there was a video posted earlier in this thread (maybe 50 pages ago
But then i forget that United are inferior to Barcelona now....
I watched Barcelona a hell of a lot, I watch a lot of Spanish football
And I've not said anything about Ronaldo and his assist stats? Because as you might have cottoned on, I don't place much stock in them!
Messi is one of if not the most creative players in the game. But as you hint out in that paragraph, it's not always aptly captured in statistics. I don't buy your 'highly unlikely' comment, in fact I think you went some way to contradicting yourself in the same post
Yeah, but Messi was better...
Then how did Messi manage to out perform Ronaldo comprehensively in europe? less minutes, less shots yet more goals and more assists. Better passing statistic and better dribbling statistic...
The fact that Messi was pulling the strings with his actual football rather than worrying solely about scoring goals ala Ronaldo is a difference.
Why when Messi performed better?
Goals, goals, goals...
Yeah, pretty much has become the only thing in football that is worth a damn, well at least since Ronaldo had his one season of great goal scoring...
Yeah because the Ronaldo masses have turned it into a Messi V Ronaldo thread.
There is a "Ronaldo Watch" thread now so surely they can talk about Ronaldo there and allow others to enjoy Messis football in peace without ramming CR7 oh wait CR9!! down our throats at every opportunity.
Gotta love the irony, you criticize a thread in which you've contributed a lot since your promotion....
If you don't like it just don't post in it
Fair enough, just saying it's never too late to talk about Messi, surely before the next 117 pages. What I said is still true, the thead has gotten shit and the same arguments have gone around in circles
well with Cal and co it's no surprise....
Personally i'm just looking forward to the new season so we can continue to enjoy the football that the little lad provides. A joy to behold for any genuine fan of the sport.
Best believe he is going to get paaaaiddd
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spai...pected-to-be-handed-new-contract-at-barcelona
Lionel Messi Expected To Be Handed New Contract At Barcelona - Report
The Camp Nou bosses are intent to keep ‘Little Lionel’ as happy and as valued as possible in Catalunya…
Comeback kid: Lionel Messi returns to action against Al-Ahly following his
Lionel Messi is set to have his contract reviewed by Barcelona once the team returns from its pre-season tour of the United States.
Sport believes that the Blaugrana want to make it perfectly clear who their number one star is following the media circus surrounding the arrival of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. It has already been reported that the Catalan giants refused to grant the Swedish striker the same salary he was previously making at Inter, so that Messi would remain the club’s top earner.
Now, it is believed that Barca want to shift their focus back to the Argentine by offering him an improved contract, even though his current term runs until 2014.
Sources close to the club have revealed that negotiations are already underway but will only pick up steam when the player is back in Catalunya.
It is speculated that his buy-out clause will go from €150 million to €250 million, the same amount as Ibrahimovic, and although there are no predictions as to how much he could be earning, his total income is expected to have a significant jump.
The idea behind this is to make sure that Messi continually feels appreciated by the club and that he remains happy with his conditions.
Barca's technical director, Txiki Begiristain, has already said, “The price of having the world’s best player in your ranks is to upgrade his contract every year.
“It is a significant price, but it is worth it.”
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spai...pected-to-be-handed-new-contract-at-barcelona
Lionel Messi Expected To Be Handed New Contract At Barcelona - Report
The Camp Nou bosses are intent to keep ‘Little Lionel’ as happy and as valued as possible in Catalunya…
Comeback kid: Lionel Messi returns to action against Al-Ahly following his
Lionel Messi is set to have his contract reviewed by Barcelona once the team returns from its pre-season tour of the United States.
Sport believes that the Blaugrana want to make it perfectly clear who their number one star is following the media circus surrounding the arrival of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. It has already been reported that the Catalan giants refused to grant the Swedish striker the same salary he was previously making at Inter, so that Messi would remain the club’s top earner.
Now, it is believed that Barca want to shift their focus back to the Argentine by offering him an improved contract, even though his current term runs until 2014.
Sources close to the club have revealed that negotiations are already underway but will only pick up steam when the player is back in Catalunya.
It is speculated that his buy-out clause will go from €150 million to €250 million, the same amount as Ibrahimovic, and although there are no predictions as to how much he could be earning, his total income is expected to have a significant jump.
The idea behind this is to make sure that Messi continually feels appreciated by the club and that he remains happy with his conditions.
Barca's technical director, Txiki Begiristain, has already said, “The price of having the world’s best player in your ranks is to upgrade his contract every year.
“It is a significant price, but it is worth it.”
At least this thread is good for keeping all the Ronaldo Vs Messi in here or it avoids to create several threads on Messi
The Ronaldo vs Messi bollox does tend to pop up in numerous threads
only on a united forum...
Yeah boss i read that, greedy little shit
Best players have to get paid accordingly
Messi vs the Galaxy the other day:
Thanks for emphasizing my point further.
it's true though, that's the thing, to anyone who watched it is obvious. Even you can admit it. The only person who cant is Cal, unless you have joined him?
You just emphasized my point, Frankly. You will never accept Ronaldo contributed more to United's season then Messi did to Barcelona's. Especially when United relied more on him than Barcelona did on Messi. Which is all I'm talking about.
Unlike you and some others in here, I don't go back on what I've said in this thread. I said much earlier, Messi would have to score almost as much as Ronaldo, and create more than him, whilst winning the same awards as him ( which he has now as good as done), or alternatively be as effective as him, (in Messi's own way) during an average season in terms of form, over a season to prove he is better, or at the very least as good.
Thus far Messi has met my standards and I have no complaints. You won't see me start now to bang on about how "Ron is better because he has been around longer".... etc. Or deny Messi has proved the better player at the same age.
But it wont stop me saying Ronaldo has the better all round game.
Unlike you and some others in here, I don't go back on what I've said in this thread. I said much earlier, Messi would have to score almost as much as Ronaldo, and create more than him, whilst winning the same awards as him ( which he has now as good as done), or alternatively be as effective as him, (in Messi's own way) during an average season in terms of form, over a season to prove he is better, or at the very least as good.
Thus far Messi has met my standards and I have no complaints. You won't see me start now to bang on about how "Ron is better because he has been around longer".... etc. Or deny Messi has proved the better player at the same age.
But it wont stop me saying Ronaldo has the better all round game.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but you can at least admit that Messi has proven himself to be at least as good in your opinion which is very high praise indeed and i respect you for that.
I'm glad you think so Frankly. & TBH I'd say he has proven better as per my criteria. Given that he is almost as good a goal scorer, while already being a top notch creator. As the start last season showed. Having Ron and Kaka in the same league as him could give both chance of at least getting into he bracket of Di Stefano, Maradona and Pele as football greats. They competing against each other should really push their talent to the skies and will be a joy to watch.
Absolutely, i hardly missed a Barca game last season but missed a few Madrid ones. I'll be doing my best to watch both which isnt that hard as they are usually on in the evenings (saturday/sunday).
Should be a facinating season in la liga, for me the top 5 players in the game are all in La Liga. Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Kaka, Ibrahimovic.
Agreed, Frankly. I honestly think for the first tiem in age I might watch more LaLiga than Premiership football.
Since i got sky i have always watched more La Liga. Not saying it's better but it appeals to me more.
I watch United and Arsenal in the prem because they provide entertainment. CHelsea are boring to watch, Liverpool are mostly tumescent although they had a few good games...
Spurs could be entertaining from time to time as could City but honestly i think West Ham provided the best actual football outside United and Arsenal.
Yeah, West ham actually play quality football, it's instilled in them. Too bad they have not really got the defending part right, but I like to watch them.
Spurs too, sometimes Lennon can be great. Only time I really watch Liverpool is if they play any of the top 4 or Everton/Aston Villa, there football is way too direct. I like to watch Arsenal even though I hate them, there main problem is that they seem to pass too much when other teams would try their luck.
The space always opens up for them and they....pass. Arshavin should change all that though and he seems to have influenced everybody to try their luck.
I get you. For I've watched the prem more for ages because it had more variety in styles. But for the last few years it bored me stiff mostly. Because of the over negative out look of most weaker teams. I value bravery more than variety. So I've begun to appreciate more how La liga sides don't really fear to attack each other. Even when faced with fire power like that Barca posses. Especially while at their home ground.
Agreed.
the game where Atletico beat Barca 4-3 was unreal...
i mean you have Atletico who have been hit for 4-5-6 or whatever the last couple of games they have played against Barca yet they come out to attack and get a magnificent 4-3 victory. Unreal...
i mean you have Atletico who have been hit for 4-5-6 or whatever the last couple of games they have played against Barca yet they come out to attack and get a magnificent 4-3 victory. Unreal...
Two years in a row, it has been an amazing match. Aguero is the new 'Barca slayer.' He took the throne from Fernando Torres, every time he plays them is looks possessed.
That game you mentioned had 3 outstanding goals. Henry's' traditional curler which he is known for, Forlans left footer wonder strike but the best had to be Messi's. He pretended he was going on way, then the space opened up and he just attacked it ghosting pass everyone in the process and slotting it cooly. He did the same move after but I think he missed on that occasion.
Barca was going through a dip in form then I think and questions were being raised about their mentality.
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