Lionel Messi

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Ronaldo has been one of the worlds best since he was 21 Chief, your argument holds no water. He has already dramatically improved, possibly more than anyone imagined he would. He'll never have a more productive season than he did at United and i highly doubt he'll improve further as a player.

Please do not compare Ronaldo to Zidane. Zidane was a playmaker, they get better with age. Ronaldo is not a playmaker, he is more impact. Explosive player and what they do is get more consistent. He'll be great but he wont improve his game much more than ne already has.

Kouroux, you know i've said he was the best ages ago anyway, it hasnt taken me this one season to see what was plain for me to see since he was 17. He is the real deal.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Ronaldo has been one of the worlds best since he was 21 Chief, your argument holds no water. He has already dramatically improved, possibly more than anyone imagined he would. He'll never have a more productive season than he did at United and i highly doubt he'll improve further as a player.

Please do not compare Ronaldo to Zidane. Zidane was a playmaker, they get better with age. Ronaldo is not a playmaker, he is more impact. Explosive player and what they do is get more consistent. He'll be great but he wont improve his game much more than ne already has.

Kouroux, you know i've said he was the best ages ago anyway, it hasnt taken me this one season to see what was plain for me to see since he was 17. He is the real deal.
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I didn't even say that at all.
 
Boss said:
Thought it exposed our superiority to you guys in every area of the pitch whilst the Cl Final had nothing to do with our 'tactics' in my opinion but that is a debate for another day.
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Pretty similar scenarios - if you let yourself get outnumbered in CM you tend to lose games. Contrast the league game a few weeks later when we set up properly.
 
peterstorey said:
Pretty similar scenarios - if you let yourself get outnumbered in CM you tend to lose games. Contrast the league game a few weeks later when we set up properly.
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The league game, we was not really going for the win, just making sure you guys would not score and you did n't play particularly well.

In the champions League we went in to your stadium with determination and confidence that we could get the away goals and Ronaldo was playing like he was possessed.

There was not much you could have done to stop us that night in my opinion, our pace on the counter was too much for you to handle and everybody brougt their A game.
 
kouroux said:
Of course he's been the best this last season, no one denies that
It's all "he'll be the best for a long time " that I think is pointless and using "plenty of people" as reference is meaningless as I could say "plenty of people" don't think this or that, would that give my view more truth ?
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No, not at all. However, if you quoted a "source close to the player", you'd be more credible..
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Cal? Plenty of people are open to the fact that Messi has everything to be the best of his generation, i'd honestly say more people think Messi is the better player.

It's a credit to Ronaldo that he is even mentioned in the same breath.
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I see you're still struggling with the difference between "fact" & "opinion".

Funny to see how you've retracted from me being on of a kind (in thinking tht Ronaldo is better) to the opposite of plenty.

Ronaldo is the best player in the world since Zidane.
 
Makki said:
No, not at all. However, if you quoted a "source close to the player", you'd be more credible..
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i dont know about anyone else but i tend to read a fair bit of football news and have read an awful lot of praise from people who have probably never met Messi, managers and opposition players and of course the same thing happens with Ronaldo.

But in my experience of reading such stuff it has been overwehlmingly in favour of Messi. That's what i meant when i said "most people" or "the rest of the world"...

I mean to site SAF as the only and ultimate reference on the matter is a farce. Just like taking everything he says seriously is a farce, he's a master of mind games, he doesnt say anything that wont somehow benfit United.

He's talked a fair amount of shit in his time regarding players, i mean didn’t he once say Dong could be the next Batistuta? Now i love SAF, he is a legend, a national treasure even but that doesn’t make him in any way infallible.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
No need for that, it was a quote from The Big Lebowski....

anyway, i've never seen a player like Messi in my lifetime, i find it strange that others dont see what i see in him. From the age of 17 i've banged on about him as being the best player around and the fact that now with him about to pick up all the awards at the age of 22 (although everything he did to win them was done at 21) only confirms i was right then and i think i'll be proven right again.

Of course i'll wait and see but until then these discussions will always happen and you know for a fact that even if Messi was the best plenty of people would say he wasnt.

I hope it does, i'd love Madrid to be awesome with Ronaldo/Kaka/Benzema etc. It'll make for a fantastic La Liga in the coming years. El Classico is going to be epic!
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Let's assume you have banged on about Messi since he was 17, but that doesn't change the FACT that he's only had ONE season at the top.

You're very quick to dismiss Ronaldo as only having had 2 great seasons, yet happy to claim Messi is the bestest best best player ever ever after ONE great season? :confused:
 
Cal? said:
I see you're still struggling with the difference between "fact" & "opinion".

Funny to see how you've retracted from me being on of a kind (in thinking tht Ronaldo is better) to the opposite of plenty.

Ronaldo is the best player in the world since Zidane.
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:lol:

you're one of a kind, nothing to do with Ronaldo mate more to do with the level of brain damage you must have suffered as a child when your mother dropped you on your head.

It is a fact that he has everything to be the greatest player of his generation. If you cant see that stop watching football. Although i wonder if you even do watch it...
 
FranklyVulgar said:
i dont know about anyone else but i tend to read a fair bit of football news and have read an awful lot of praise from people who have probably never met Messi, managers and opposition players and of course the same thing happens with Ronaldo.

But in my experience of reading such stuff it has been overwehlmingly in favour of Messi. That's what i meant when i said "most people" or "the rest of the world"...

I mean to site SAF as the only and ultimate reference on the matter is a farce. Just like taking everything he says seriously is a farce, he's a master of mind games, he doesnt say anything that wont somehow benfit United.

He's talked a fair amount of shit in his time regarding players, i mean didn’t he once say Dong could be the next Batistuta? Now i love SAF, he is a legend, a national treasure even but that doesn’t make him in any way infallible.
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What?!
 
FranklyVulgar said:
i dont know about anyone else but i tend to read a fair bit of football news and have read an awful lot of praise from people who have probably never met Messi, managers and opposition players and of course the same thing happens with Ronaldo.

But in my experience of reading such stuff it has been overwehlmingly in favour of Messi. That's what i meant when i said "most people" or "the rest of the world"...

I mean to site SAF as the only and ultimate reference on the matter is a farce. Just like taking everything he says seriously is a farce, he's a master of mind games, he doesnt say anything that wont somehow benfit United.

He's talked a fair amount of shit in his time regarding players, i mean didn’t he once say Dong could be the next Batistuta? Now i love SAF, he is a legend, a national treasure even but that doesn’t make him in any way infallible.
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Ronaldo won the Ballon d'Or and WFoTY by a pretty overwhelming majority last year. Aside of Sir Alex, there are plenty of other footballing people who have said Ronaldo is the best in the World.

You just dismiss anyone who says good things about Ronaldo as being biased, yet whenever anyone talks nice about Messi, they immediately has no secondary agenda and should be trusted with your life. :wenger:
 
FranklyVulgar said:
:lol:

you're one of a kind, nothing to do with Ronaldo mate more to do with the level of brain damage you must have suffered as a child when your mother dropped you on your head.

It is a fact that he has everything to be the greatest player of his generation. If you cant see that stop watching football. Although i wonder if you even do watch it...
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No, it's your opinion that Messi "has everything to be the greatest player of his generation".

The fact of the matter is, I, along with Sir Alex and plenty of other people, have the opinion that Ronaldo is the best player in the world right now.
 
Cal? said:
Let's assume you have banged on about Messi since he was 17, but that doesn't change the FACT that he's only had ONE season at the top.

You're very quick to dismiss Ronaldo as only having had 2 great seasons, yet happy to claim Messi is the bestest best best player ever ever after ONE great season? :confused:
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:lol:

Let me see...

In 2007 Messi was 3rd in the ballon d'Or, 2008 he was 2nd, in 2009 he'll be 1st.

Add to that in the same years he was 2nd in the FIFA world player of the year and this year, yes he'll win that...

Add to that the fact he was voted world young player of the year for the past 3 years leads me to a pretty concise conclusion that yes, Messi has indeed been at the top for more than 1 year.

Cal, Ronaldo deserved those awards, doesnt mean he's the best player in the world. Just means he deserved the awards.

And YES Cal it does mean nothing when SAF and co big up Ronaldo. In the same way i dismiss Guardiola and other collegues or fellow argies when they big up Messi and God knows there are an awful lot of them.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
:lol:

Let me see...

In 2007 Messi was 3rd in the ballon d'Or, 2008 he was 2nd, in 2009 he'll be 1st.

Add to that in the same years he was 2nd in the FIFA world player of the year and this year, yes he'll win that...

Add to that the fact he was voted world young player of the year for the past 3 years leads me to a pretty concise conclusion that yes, Messi has indeed been at the top for more than 1 year.
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Let's see, the likes of Lampard, Beckham have all been 2nd in the ballon d'or or WFoTY, they must all be contenders of the "once in a generation player".

In fact, Owen, even won the Ballon d'Or, which Messi hasn't YET.

Messi has had ONE great season that deserves comparison with Ronaldo 06-08. In his other seasons, he wasn't even fit to tie Ronaldo's shoe laces.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Ronaldo has been one of the worlds best since he was 21 Chief, your argument holds no water..
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Silly boy:lol:

You wanted examples of players who made rapid advancements in development, due to not being as mature as Messi was aged 17. With them eventually getting much better Ronaldo style. Even at higher ages than he did , getting even better beyond that. You can't then turn around and then deny the validity of what you asked for.

FranklyVulgar said:
He has already dramatically improved, possibly more than anyone imagined he would. He'll never have a more productive season than he did at United and i highly doubt he'll improve further as a player.
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Sure. Just like you have this idea his attitude is bad and will affect his development. We all know how you really feel about Ron.... :D


FranklyVulgar said:
Please do not compare Ronaldo to Zidane. Zidane was a playmaker, they get better with age. Ronaldo is not a playmaker, he is more impact. Explosive player and what they do is get more consistent. He'll be great but he wont improve his game much more than he already has.
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That's bs mate. All trly talented attacking players who were not uber mature at young ages keep getting better with age and sually dramtically. Because their awarness, vision and passing always has to catch up with their overall development. Unlike the Messi types, who's physical developement is what is usually catching up to their abilties.

Like it or not a Ronaldo is more likely to improve more dramatically than a Messi even though he is older. For a number of aspects of his his play still need some work, which can't be said of a Messi.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Silly boy:lol:

You wanted examples of players who made rapid advancements in development, due to not being as mature as Messi was aged 17. With them eventually getting much better Ronaldo style. Even at higher ages than he did , getting even better beyond that. You can't then turn around and then deny the validity of what you asked for.

Sure. Just like you have this idea his attitude is bad and will affect his development. We all know how you really feel about Ron.... :D


That's bs mate. All trly talented attacking players who were not uber mature at young ages keep getting better with age and sually dramtically. Because their awarness, vision and passing always has to catch up with their overall development. Unlike the Messi types, who's physical developement is what is usually catching up to their abilties.

Like it or not a Ronaldo is more likely to improve more dramatically than a Messi even though he is older. For a number of aspects of his his play still need some work, which can't be said of a Messi.
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That was never said by me.

And you point to players who developed late ignoring the massive leaps Ronaldo took in his formative years. NOBODY continues to develop at that rate. He has almost peaked, what do you think he'll be sold by madrid in 3 years for 200million? he is very near to being as good as he can be both physically, skill wise and mentally.

He will not improve dramitically again as a player, how anyone thinks he will is beyond me chief, you are wrong about this.

Ronaldo will never have that vision/passing ability, just that general magic with the ball at his feet. There are many players more blessed in this department than Ronaldo and even a few more blessed than Messi.

I'm sorry chief but i just cant buy it, you think Ronaldo will still improve dramatically as a player, as a guy of 24 whilst messi who has just turned 22, a guy 3 years younger than Ronaldo cant.

It doesnt make sense.
 
I think it's pretty simple to analyze the situation, 2 years ago Ronaldo was the best player in the world and no one got close to him and last season it was the same with Messi and even if he hasn't been nominated as such no he'll be officially the best player in the world.
Who will be the next one in the coming season(s) is another question .We just have to see the facts seasons by seasons as it's the best way to compare players and not what could possibly happen in the future
 
Cal? said:
Let's see, the likes of Lampard, Beckham have all been 2nd in the ballon d'or or WFoTY, they must all be contenders of the "once in a generation player".

In fact, Owen, even won the Ballon d'Or, which Messi hasn't YET.

Messi has had ONE great season that deserves comparison with Ronaldo 06-08. In his other seasons, he wasn't even fit to tie Ronaldo's shoe laces.
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yeah because they were getting those awards aged 18/19/20/21 and were consistently in the running...

Keep it up cal, i'm sure the majority are having a good laugh at your idiocy, i know i am :p
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Ronaldo has been one of the worlds best since he was 21 Chief, your argument holds no water. He has already dramatically improved, possibly more than anyone imagined he would. He'll never have a more productive season than he did at United and i highly doubt he'll improve further as a player.

Please do not compare Ronaldo to Zidane. Zidane was a playmaker, they get better with age. Ronaldo is not a playmaker, he is more impact. Explosive player and what they do is get more consistent. He'll be great but he wont improve his game much more than ne already has.

Kouroux, you know i've said he was the best ages ago anyway, it hasnt taken me this one season to see what was plain for me to see since he was 17. He is the real deal.
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This is what's all wrong with you Frank, time and again you make predictions about what will happen in the future, no-one else does it half as often as you because it's entirely illogical to do so because you just don't know.

He might have a more productive season with Madrid next year.

Cal? said:
No, it's your opinion that Messi "has everything to be the greatest player of his generation".

The fact of the matter is, I, along with Sir Alex and plenty of other people, have the opinion that Ronaldo is the best player in the world right now.
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Plenty of other people my arse. I'd say you and Sir Alex are one of the very few who think that.
 
Boss said:
There was not much you could have done to stop us that night in my opinion, our pace on the counter was too much for you to handle and everybody brougt their A game.
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Difficult to say we were effectively 4-0 down after 10 minutes.
 
True Brwned, i can't help myself. I predicted Messi would win it this year, hell i even had a bet with a fellow caflad that Ronaldo wouldnt get near his 40 goals. I know i sound like a right arrogant wank when i say stuff like this but i'm right quite a bit with regards to football. If you make a prediction you can fall in your face. I'll take any abuse i get gladly if i'm wrong though.

I said Messi would win every individual award this year and he will.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
True Brwned, i can't help myself. I predicted Messi would win it this year, hell i even had a bet with a fellow caflad that Ronaldo wouldnt get near his 40 goals. I know i sound like a right arrogant wank when i say stuff like this but i'm right quite a bit with regards to football. If you make a prediction you can fall in your face. I'll take any abuse i get gladly if i'm wrong though.

I said Messi would win every individual award this year and he will.
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I don't want to sound arrogant, quite the opposite , I just want to express how I feel and with football I am usually right about these things. Ok, deep breath, here we go.

In LaLiga either Barcelona or Real Madrid are likely to win the title.

In the Premiership Us,Chelsea and Pool will battle it out for the league with Arsenal coming a distant forth with Rooney and Berba getting double figures.

In Seria A, Ac Milan,Juventus and Inter are likely to battle it out for the league.

I also predict that Messi,Ronaldo and Kaka would all get into double figures next season and are likely to feature in the top 5 for Fifa Player of the year 2009. On a lessor note I think Lyon would have a good chance of winning the league next season and are bound to be up there when the season ends regardless.

Now please, do not call me arrogant with these predictions. But I am the special one when it comes to football Nostradamus. Remember if I am wrong I would likely take any abuse coming my way.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
True Brwned, i can't help myself. I predicted Messi would win it this year, hell i even had a bet with a fellow caflad that Ronaldo wouldnt get near his 40 goals. I know i sound like a right arrogant wank when i say stuff like this but i'm right quite a bit with regards to football. If you make a prediction you can fall in your face. I'll take any abuse i get gladly if i'm wrong though.

I said Messi would win every individual award this year and he will.
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The thing you're just not getting is that it doesn't even matter if you're right about it or not, it's how you state your views. It's just not right, and you're becoming more and more like the Chief every day.

He said almost the exact same thing a couple of months ago to me. You just don't say it.
 
Boss said:
I don't want to sound arrogant, quite the opposite , I just want to express how I feel and with football I am usually right about these things. Ok, deep breath, here we go.

In LaLiga either Barcelona or Real Madrid are likely to win the title.

In the Premiership Us,Chelsea and Pool will battle it out for the league with Arsenal coming a distant forth with Rooney and Berba getting double figures.

In Seria A, Ac Milan,Juventus and Inter are likely to battle it out for the league.

I also predict that Messi,Ronaldo and Kaka would all get into double figures next season and are likely to feature in the top 5 for Fifa Player of the year 2009. On a lessor note I think Lyon would have a good chance of winning the league next season and are bound to be up there when the season ends regardless.

Now please, do not call me arrogant with these predictions. But I am the special one when it comes to football Nostradamus. Remember if I am wrong I would likely take any abuse coming my way.
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hahaha, feck you're good. I might steal some of your predictions and use them as me own. Certainly onto a few winners in there. Although i'd lose the Ronaldo doubgle figures, he's finished :lol:
 
Brwned said:
The thing you're just not getting is that it doesn't even matter if you're right about it or not, it's how you state your views. It's just not right, and you're becoming more and more like the Chief every day.

He said almost the exact same thing a couple of months ago to me. You just don't say it.
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The thing is brwned i dont really care that much if i am right or wrong. I give my opinions, others give theres, you give yours. It's all good, it's all football banter. It passes the time in an otherwise fairly boring day.
 
Boss said:
In the Premiership Us,Chelsea and Pool will battle it out for the league with Arsenal coming a distant forth with Rooney and Berba getting double figures. But I am the special one when it comes to football Nostradamus. Remember if I am wrong I would likely take any abuse coming my way.
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That looks like self-abuse to me.
 
peterstorey said:
That looks like self-abuse to me.
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That would be a good season by your standards and especially since you sold Adebayor who gives you that psychical and goal advantage. Also you guys get a 5th season trophyless from this:

scrubs.jpg
 
FranklyVulgar said:
The thing is brwned i dont really care that much if i am right or wrong. I give my opinions, others give theres, you give yours. It's all good, it's all football banter. It passes the time in an otherwise fairly boring day.
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Somehow I'm struggling to believe that after you mentioning countless times in this very thread about how Messi has proved you right, and then this:

I know i sound like a right arrogant wank when i say stuff like this but i'm right quite a bit with regards to football.
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Nah, not buying it. You clearly love being proven right just as much as the Chief, which is more so than most on here.
 
Brwned i say worse to people face to face than i say on here because i know i'd get banned more than likely and i quite enjoy the debate and banter.

YOu see i dont need to be proven right, i know i'm right. The only enjoyment i get out of being proven right is seeing how much it irks others, cal and co.
 
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