Because Ronaldo's a better footballer, obviously.
Lionel Messi
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Because Ronaldo's a better footballer, obviously.
Great you just added another one, anyway here is all Messi's goals of the season, some real fantastic stuff here
Missed a penalty at 2:19.
Must improve.
Must improve.
He's great isn't he? Always a joy to watch.
It's a breathtaking video, really. 
That goal where he cut in and played the one - two with Eto'o was mental, but that's pretty much a standard Lionel Messi goal.
That goal where he cut in and played the one - two with Eto'o was mental, but that's pretty much a standard Lionel Messi goal.
It's a breathtaking video, really.
That goal where he cut in and played the one - two with Eto'o was mental, but that's pretty much a standard Lionel Messi goal.
The current generation can be proud to boast such a player, he has been playing like this since forever, it took a while for the world to finally notice what football is dealing with and he deserves it.
First time I saw him play I knew he was going straight to the top. I wish the Argentina coach would have gone with his instinct and played in more during the last during the last World Cup as he was immense in them getting there.
The scary thing and Messi is he is just getting warmed up, this is just the beginning.
So his 38 goal return was down to team tactics, rather than his improved performances as a player?
I've also been watching him since 2005, and though you can clearly see the immense talent he had, he's not been the best player in the world "forever".
Of course he has improved, I am saying since 05 he was always dribbling and beating players and showing the same fantastic vision in his passes. His general style has never changed.
I should have been more concise in my post. He has definitely improved his decision making, he has become more decisive than he ever was.
Guardiola said himself that the first thing he wanted was Messi to play further up the field. Not getting too involved in getting the ball deep and being more decisive in the final 3rd.
Tactics have played a big part.
He has of course improved as a player but it has by no means been dramatic. Injuries were what stopped him from having singularly excellent seasons and this was the first year he didnt sustain a serious injury and he proved a lot of people right.
He is the biggest talent in world football, sometimes talent isn't enough to be the best but Messi proved this season without doubt that he is the best around. At 21 that is something quite spectacular in my opinion.
Tactics have played a big part.
He has of course improved as a player but it has by no means been dramatic. Injuries were what stopped him from having singularly excellent seasons and this was the first year he didnt sustain a serious injury and he proved a lot of people right.
He is the biggest talent in world football, sometimes talent isn't enough to be the best but Messi proved this season without doubt that he is the best around. At 21 that is something quite spectacular in my opinion.
What makes you think that ?
Fergie seems to think Ronaldo is miles ahead of anyone else.
Hmmm.
Hmmm.
umm....maybe because he is only 22 years old? He is no way near his peak and it is very likely that he is going to win alot more things with his talent. For club and country. Also he is likely to improve some weaknesses in his game like using his right foot more.
come on boss at 22 everyone knows your peak years are behind you
come on boss at 22 everyone knows your peak years are behind you
What can I say, I just plain forgot one of the key conventions of football
Fergie has nurtured the boy for 6 years, he's obviously going to be a little biased!
come on boss at 22 everyone knows your peak years are behind you
Don't be silly ffs, it's not a question of age otherwise I wouldn't ask it.Who can certify without any doubt that Messi's peak wasn't last season's ? That was the point of my question, like you seem 100% he can only get better but what if he doesn't ? Is it not possible that he couldn't improve anymore (not even taking injuries into account)? Just a question as for his fans it seems so sur that a player like Messi can still improve since he's young and a player like Ronaldo cannot anymore whereas he isn't that much older.
A whole load of contradictions going on in this thread.
Then again, when it's someone as good as Messi, it doesn't really matter.
Then again, when it's someone as good as Messi, it doesn't really matter.
Trying to argue Messi was better than Ronaldo in 07/08 just makes you look an idiot, don't even bother.
No one in the past decades have had a better season than Ronaldo in 07/08, not Ronaldinho 04/05 (he was close), not Kaka 06/07, not Zidane, and certainly not Messi in 07/08.
Anyway, Sir Alex has made it abundantly clear what he thinks about 2 non United players.
I for one, trust Sir Alex's judgement, especially when it is the same as my own.
Only statistically, that argument holds good but Ronaldo still isnt certainly as good as Ronaldinho of 04/06 and it would take some doing to reach Henry, better forget about a comparison with Zidane.
Even if you go by stats Messi of 08/09 38 goals and 18 assists...Ronaldo of 07/08 42 goals and 3 Assists. Henry of 03/04 and 05/06 was certainly better than Ronaldo's best seasson.
I know it don't really matter but Ronaldo got 6 assits in 07/08.....not 3... He also got over around 20 assits in 06/07. Not sure what all this has to do with the Messi thread regardless
Ronaldo got 17 assists in 06/07 his best season ever interms of his overall influence on the pitch.
Does assits mean overall influence on the pitch? In 06/07 Messi racked up only 2 assits throughout the whole season but absolutely carried Barcelona at times as he was becoming a hero with his performances when other members of the team were feeling sorry for themselves. Strange arguments there Vijay
by the way Vijay Ronaldo got 20 assits in 2006/07 and scored 23 goals just to correct you
Like Messi in 06/07?
Its not my point. Ronaldo's allround attacking game was brilliant in 06/07 ripping teams whilst in 07/08 his influence on the pitch wasnt much apart from goals.
You wish. Kaka isn't special as a play maker. I can name you 5 players better than him at that. At MILAN and even for Brazil others have often done the play making for him. What he is good as is getting into the box Lampard style while beating people. For you to even assume he is going to out shine a player who is capable of creating as much as him from the flank and out score him in open play is ludicrous. That would be the equivalent of me saying Iniesta will have more of an impact than Messi next season. If both are fit and on form.What Kaka and what Ronaldo bring to the team are very different. For me what Kaka will bring is exactly what Madrid need. As a player he picks it up runs at defenders and has the eye and execution for a pass in the final 3rd which few can match in world football so your point about kaka not being close to Ronaldo in anything
Actually it has eveyrthing to do with it. You can't honestly want anyone here to believe that you can claim with a straight face you think Kaka will out shine Ronaldo in a REAL shirt. Based on the last 3 seasons of their respective careers. Especially when we both know he wont even be playing in the real heart of their midfield to be come the play maker in chief, like you think he will be.
Kaka is not much of a play maker, he never has been. Nor is he more direct than Ronaldo,
What he is though, is a pure attacking midfielder, an upgrade of what Scholes was in his earlier days. He can create yes but he will score far more than he will create. That is why REAL are after both Xabi Alonso and Gaetano D'agostino, to fill up that playmaker role in the team alongside Diarra.
You are going to be very mistaken though. REAL Madrid's style shall be influenced strictly by the player they manage to sign to partner Diarra, between Xabi and D'agostino. Not Kaka or Ronaldo. Kaka, Ronaldo and Benzema will mostly be the team's cruise missiles, not the delivery system.
Excellent right there, maybe even a bit harsh on Kaka, but come on most of that is commone sense that a lot of people choose to ignore
Kaka is clearly being under rated here. If you really think he isn't fit to lace Ronaldos boots you need a reality check. He is one of the best in the world, brazils standout in recent years and the only think keeping Milan going in europe. The past couple of years he has struggled with injury and form but a change to Madrid will do him the world of good. To say Ronaldo is as creative as Kaka is far fetched.
Kaka has the killer ball in his locker, he runs with pace drawing players towards him then threads it through the gaps created. This is why he'll have the bigger impact, he can influence the pitch in many ways. Ronaldo will get more goals no doubt with his headers and free kicks and general positional sense and desire to get into and around the box but for making things happen in a team Kaka will be the more likely.
This is my opinion.
As for Messi having peaked at 22.... i doubt it, he will achieve much more in his career. I doubt he'll score the same amount of goals next term but he'll continue to improve aspects of his game. He's the real deal and will prove it again and again until there really is no doubt that he is the greatest player of his generation.
Kaka has the killer ball in his locker, he runs with pace drawing players towards him then threads it through the gaps created. This is why he'll have the bigger impact, he can influence the pitch in many ways. Ronaldo will get more goals no doubt with his headers and free kicks and general positional sense and desire to get into and around the box but for making things happen in a team Kaka will be the more likely.
This is my opinion.
As for Messi having peaked at 22.... i doubt it, he will achieve much more in his career. I doubt he'll score the same amount of goals next term but he'll continue to improve aspects of his game. He's the real deal and will prove it again and again until there really is no doubt that he is the greatest player of his generation.
I can see what Chief is saying here. Yes maybe Kaka is being slightly underrated but that's understandable since he's been going downhill in the past two or three years, well behind Messi Ronaldo Torres and even Robinho, imo. I don't think he is a 'playmaker', he is an intelligent forward who has an excellent eye for a pass. His style is very direct. Pirlo is/was the playmaker of that great CL winning Milan team, Gattuso the bulldog, and Kaka the elegant forward who could glide past people but also slip a through ball to Inzaghi.
We've said the same things about Ronaldo and it works because has such a fantastic all around game to begin with. I too think Messi is near his peak, because I don't think he'll ever be a great header of the ball. I don't think he'll leap as high as Ronaldo or most centerbacks he faces. I don't think he'll develop a rocket of a freekick. I don't think he can ever easily shrug off most defenders when they bump into him when they're fighting for the ball. Most importantly, I don't think he'll magically shake off his injury proneness. He might be able to dribble slightly quicker and more consistently as he grows older, but at the same time defenders will eventually learn how to stop him, even if it means sending him flying through the air. He'll be roughed up worse and worse, and I can see him becoming just like Robben when he's 25-26 or so. Sorry but when you're plagued by injuries at such a young age, it's hard to imagine it becoming better in the future especially when you're a midget and had growth problems like Messi.
Ronaldo is on another level in terms of physique, and IMO that is so much more important in the modern game.
Obviously for his height he'll never be a great header of the ball but he managed a few headed goals even though ideally you dont want a player like Messi to be heading the ball too often, ideally he'll be putting it in to be headed but he proved in the CL final of all games that he can leap and score with a deft header.
Messi is already the most fouled player in spain and has had treatment as rough as it comes in the modern game. He will improve his free kicks, he doesnt hit it as hard as he can, he goes for placement over power and that will come with time.
Last season his only season completed without injury he changed his training and diet and didnt suffer any of the problems that plagued him in previous years so it is not inconcievable that he can continue to look after himself and ensure he doesn't suffer the same injuries as in the past.
As for shrugging off defenders have you ever watched him play?
Messi is unique, he doesnt rely on tricks to beat players, he waits for a defender to make a mistake or a move and then he expoits it by being faster and having the best close control in the game. Ronaldo relys on tricks and that is why after a few years in England you rarely see him beat a man with anything other than pace.
Rather the opposite is true. You are shamelessly trying to claim he is better than Ronaldo. When he most certainly and obviously isn't.
He is the third best player in the world. But it's not close between him and the two above him.
Rather the mere fact you even thought up something that silly means you need the reality check most.
No one here is saying what you've just implied.We instead are simply stating the truth about Kaka.
Get real. Even in Kaka's best season to date Ronaldo create and scored more than him all year. & that was when Ronaldo was playing as a pure winger, not the move finisher United turned him into when he became our most consistent goal threat. A role I fully expect him to return to at REAL now that he wont be the only goal threat in the side.
To claim Kaka is more creative than Ronaldo is an absolute joke. Kaka's strength has never been and will never be creating. That is why both for Brazil and Milan it wasn't his chief job. Infact for both he has either been used as a link between attack and midfield or as a wide man. Not as a play maker.
Kaka wont be making things happen at REAL simply because the teams creativity wont be built around him. & furthermore because that has never been his game. He wont play in the heart of midfield. He will instead most likely be employed in the same free role Roanldo will have. The same free role Ronaldo absolutely outshone him in , when Kaka had his best season to date that got him named World player of the year.
Sure. But it's a misguided one. Kaka is simply not the play maker you claim he is. What he is, is a pure attacking midfielder. Only matched by Lampard. He has a killer pass it's true. But its because liek Lampard he is a very good player. Not because he is a top play maker.
Tell us what you think he can get better at?
Because IMO skill wise he is the finished article. The only thing left for him is experience, which as his ages will naturally give him more strength, better anticipation, and a better right peg, to wreck the damage he already wrecks now. But on a level in which form and fitness wont matter much.
Lastly, a thing like Messi allegedly peaking shouldn't ruffle anyone. He is so darn good at what he does that with just adding experience alone, he can go on doing what he does till he retires. Because if we are honest he is as good as the finished article.
After all most players peak late, which IMO is not advantageous. It would honestly be amazing for a player this good and talented to peak this early. When he is still young and hungry. For it would mean at least 7 or 8 years of top class play till he starts coming down aged 31. Rather than the 4 incredible years we usually get from most greats. IMO that would be a great privilege to witness.
Any winger should get his fair share of assists. After all the job of a winger is to get down the wing and cross it in for a striker.
Kaka is a playmaker, i dont understand how anyone can say he isnt really. In the final 3rd he is decisive with passes and runs that is what makes him a playmaker for me. Pirlo is obviously who you think is the cheif play maker and he was but it is from deep and is starting moves. In the final 3rd Kaka is one of the best in the game at opening defenses and making things happen.
I think Madrid will line up with Ronaldo, Raul and one other up front. 2 Central midfielders Diarra and Gago perhaps with Kaka in the attack mid role. That's why i forsee him having a massive impact because he is the type of player they have been missing. Ronaldo has been the better player in recent years i'm not claiming Kaka is a better player, just that imo he is what Madrid have been crying out for, his direct running coupled with his eye for a pass.
Robben was doing the running thing but lacks that final ball, Kaka has that and is a very creative player. You can say he isnt a play maker but i think he is, i think any player who regularly splits a defense can be known as a play maker. A play maker doesnt need to be the midfielder who pulls the strings. I consider that type of player a dictator, Xavi style where they constantly probe and keep the ball moving and play the game at their own pace and run the midfield and therefor the match.
Who knows what the future holds for Messi, he is a phenomenon. I didnt think he'd have as good a season as he did despite already having him as my number 1 player in world football so i'll wait and see.
He has such a unique style that hasnt changed it is hard to see what he has improved on but he has already improved his right foot a lot, his heading ability and is now taking free kicks on occasion. Basically i think if he remains consistent and keeps doing what he's doing by the end of his career he'll be regard as the best player of his generation without a doubt.
Kaka is a playmaker, i dont understand how anyone can say he isnt really. In the final 3rd he is decisive with passes and runs that is what makes him a playmaker for me. Pirlo is obviously who you think is the cheif play maker and he was but it is from deep and is starting moves. In the final 3rd Kaka is one of the best in the game at opening defenses and making things happen.
I think Madrid will line up with Ronaldo, Raul and one other up front. 2 Central midfielders Diarra and Gago perhaps with Kaka in the attack mid role. That's why i forsee him having a massive impact because he is the type of player they have been missing. Ronaldo has been the better player in recent years i'm not claiming Kaka is a better player, just that imo he is what Madrid have been crying out for, his direct running coupled with his eye for a pass.
Robben was doing the running thing but lacks that final ball, Kaka has that and is a very creative player. You can say he isnt a play maker but i think he is, i think any player who regularly splits a defense can be known as a play maker. A play maker doesnt need to be the midfielder who pulls the strings. I consider that type of player a dictator, Xavi style where they constantly probe and keep the ball moving and play the game at their own pace and run the midfield and therefor the match.
Who knows what the future holds for Messi, he is a phenomenon. I didnt think he'd have as good a season as he did despite already having him as my number 1 player in world football so i'll wait and see.
He has such a unique style that hasnt changed it is hard to see what he has improved on but he has already improved his right foot a lot, his heading ability and is now taking free kicks on occasion. Basically i think if he remains consistent and keeps doing what he's doing by the end of his career he'll be regard as the best player of his generation without a doubt.
Kaka is Brazil's best player FranklyVulgar and was Milan best. But neither side used him as the chief player maker. Calling him one is like calling Lampard one.
I don't know why people have this idea having a killer pass equates to being a play maker. Even pure attacking midfielders have this asset.
I don't know why people have this idea having a killer pass equates to being a play maker. Even pure attacking midfielders have this asset.
Ronaldo in 07/08 had the best season of any player in decades.
Clearly better than Ronaldinho or Henry ever was. Zidane has had better moments, but not a season as good as that.
As for Messi, only Arse fans add goals to assists. Is it Ronaldo's fault that Rooney had a bad year in front of goal?
As Sir Alex said quite clearly, Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player in the World, it's beyond debate!!
I'm not saying he is "the" chief playmaker but he is a playmaker.
More of a play maker than Ronaldo or any other player in that current Madrid side. Van Der Vaart if he wasnt retarded would be the best playmaker in the team.
Ronaldo in 07/08 had the best season of any player in decades.
Clearly better than Ronaldinho or Henry ever was. Zidane has had better moments, but not a season as good as that.
As for Messi, only Arse fans add goals to assists. Is it Ronaldo's fault that Rooney had a bad year in front of goal?
As Sir Alex said quite clearly, Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player in the World, it's beyond debate!!
I feel a bit sorry for you. Your head must be entirely flat, like a sheet of paper turned 90 degrees so that it is super thin because i've never encountered anyone so narrow minded.
I mean the whole argument has been about Ronaldo 07/08 and how it was impossible for anyone to do better and Messi goes and does it and people still argue against it. THe mind boggles.
Treble winner and every individual accolade going bar top scorer in la liga and you still think Ronaldo 07/08 was better. Bizarre, i would seriously think after this season people would see sense regarding Messi. Well actually i never thought you would see sense and maybe other people have.
At the very least people will grudgingly admit Messi as "equalled" Ronaldo. For me he basically shat Ronaldo out.
Seriously Messi of last season was more impressive than Ronaldo a couple of years ago.It was not just the goals and assists with Messi, it was the overall performances he was delivering in general which makes the difference for me
@FV: You see your problem, you cannot praise Messi without undermining Ronaldo.Just because others do the opposite you don't have to it.I'm talking about the "he basically shat Ronaldo out" which is an exaggeration
@FV: You see your problem, you cannot praise Messi without undermining Ronaldo.Just because others do the opposite you don't have to it.I'm talking about the "he basically shat Ronaldo out" which is an exaggeration
Thing is Frankly Vulgar, Kaka wont be getting any playmaking duties at REAL because he isn't as good at it as you think. He is definitely not more creative than Ronaldo. For even at his best he has never reached 20 assists in a season like Ron has. Nor has he needed to for that matter. Creating play is really not something he concentrates on for him to do what you think he will at REAL. Kaka will just be his usual self. Like Ronaldo he will create his far share. But his biggest contribution I expect to be goals. & the ability to carry the ball forward, while running at players and making space for team mates down the center of the pitch. Which IMO REAL like most sides have lacked for ages.
Infact of REAL's front 4, Raul may end up doing more creating than the rest, since he wont have the legs to get about like the other 3 will.
Infact of REAL's front 4, Raul may end up doing more creating than the rest, since he wont have the legs to get about like the other 3 will.
Now that's a truly stupid thing to say. I bet you know it too. & don't cough up the bollocks excuse that "it's your opinion". That is just you being a WUM on purpose.
Ronaldo got 20 assists due to being a winger, not because he is particulary creative but because he is a good crosser of the ball and has pace to burn and Uniteds counter attacking football suited him to the bone.
Madrid bank on brilliance to open teams in the same way that Barcelona do, they need someone like Kaka who can draw players towards him and then play passes like he did to Crespo in the CL final. The sort of splitting pass that catches defenses unawares. He'll bring that more often than Ronaldo because that is one part of the game Ronaldo really doesnt have.
Madrid bank on brilliance to open teams in the same way that Barcelona do, they need someone like Kaka who can draw players towards him and then play passes like he did to Crespo in the CL final. The sort of splitting pass that catches defenses unawares. He'll bring that more often than Ronaldo because that is one part of the game Ronaldo really doesnt have.
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