So your contention is that there is no such thing as a comfort zone in high level sport?
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Probably for the best, it seems that critical thinking isn't one of your key skills.
My critical thinking is fine thanks. Your reading comprehension is the thing that needs work. Or your memory, as you were the person who was droning on about working for a company for 10 years just a few posts ago, as if that was in any way relevant or comparable to elite level football.
Without wishing to retread old ground, the point of the comparison was that you can be in a comfort zone regardless of the change in personnel around you. To be clear, I don't see myself as on Lionel's level with a ball. Do you understand now?
It's not remotely the same thing. He wasn't in a comfort zone. Neither were Pele, Beckenbauer or Gerrard. It's ridiculous.
This isn’t true. Pep’s Barca was very different to Enrique’s Barca which was different to Valverde’s, and so on. You make it out as if they played the same way for Messi’s entire Barca career.
The system was at root very similar. And the players were very similar/the same. I agree the system wasn't identical in execution but it was hardly revolution.
Not always. Valverde’s Barca were radically different to the previous iterations, they played a 442 with most of the old guard gone or playing far fewer minutes. They didn’t utilise the sort of pass and move football Barca love which is why a lot of their fans weren’t really into Valverde, yet Messi was amazing always.
I take your point, but I would say he was still playing with players he'd played with for years and years, in a club he'd been at for nearly twenty years. Regardless of a slight change of tactic he was still in his safe space. Also, wasn't valverde only there for a year or two?
Unless the game radically changes in the future, I feel his 91 goals in a calendar year will stand for a very, very long time.
Can't say I know enough about the first two to comment but Gerrard was absolutely in the comfort zone.
a slight change in tactic under Valverde
As I suspect, you have close to zero knowledge on Barca under different managers and also the squad changes over the years.Re the safe space comment, in your view, for a player, is "staying at his comfort zone" in your definition which many disagree here (staying at the same club for a long time) an advantage or disadvantage for his trophy count?
Slight chance in tactic
As others have pointed out, the problem is that you clearly haven't watched any of Barcelona but you're still wasting our time discussing a player you haven't watched.Nothing about playing for Valverde is a safe space. Or playing for Argentina.
For me it simply feels like 2 students who went to University.
One student went to University from home living with his mum and dad.
The other student went to university by leaving home, living by himself at the start of a new era.
Both aced the exam.
The student who left home & lived by himself was also asked to take the exams by 3 other top competitive universities in 3 other areas - where he aced all 3 on an individual level. Living by himself still.
One student went to University from home living with his mum and dad.
The other student went to university by leaving home, living by himself at the start of a new era.
Both aced the exam.
The student who left home & lived by himself was also asked to take the exams by 3 other top competitive universities in 3 other areas - where he aced all 3 on an individual level. Living by himself still.
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The only problem is they did not take the same exams. One aced multiple exams in terms of GOAT level playmaking, dribbling, goal scoring, passing, technique and creativity etc basically the major areas that made football fun to watch. The other was not even qualified to take the exam in most these areas other than goal scoring. Take away most goals scored by Messi, you still have a Maradona like player..
One was not tutored by the best (with the exception of Guardiola) whereas the other got his training from the very best in all these different countries all these years..
Also, had the other student stayed with his mum & dad at United, he would end up with way less success meaning staying with mum & dad is sometimes way more challenging than leaving home in terms of success..
Only one won major individual trophies (Ballon D'or & Golden Shoes) with poor tutors and average support cast..
Finally, only one did not compromise his creativity to maximize his goal stats by turning into a penalty box poacher and continued to exhibit his multiple skills..
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The bolded is the biggest difference between them.
Nah the biggest difference is their ability on the ball.
He played well for first year at new club despite that horrible injury against venezuela which affect his game clearly
but still since 2008 the best player in the world when he is inform
but still since 2008 the best player in the world when he is inform
I thought this was a @Needham post for a second.
He aced that at an exam which the university has a way it grows everyone with a certain style of football.
The moment he left and took an exam in France - excuses comes out like COVID effected him.
Some fans value technical ability which no doubt Messi is the best - but on the other side there is a bunch of fans who value things like adaptability, mentality and the able to do it in any team or any league.
That’s why this will never change.
Some fans value technique (which can be heavily effected by which league you Play or team) whilst some fans value something like to do it anywhere and any time.
You don’t value that - just as much as I don’t value technical ability as my most valued aspect. I’d take a 8:10 technical ability to with 10/10 mental ability over just a technical ability of a footballer any day of the week.
The same if I was hoping to get an employee- I wouldn’t look just as his technique, I’d look at his mentality.
Doesn't necessarily have a bearing on it. I agree that Valverde’s barca was very different to previous iterations but, again, wasn't he only there for a season or two?a slight change in tactic under Valverde
Re the safe space comment, in your view, for a player, is "staying at his comfort zone" in your definition which many disagree here (staying at the same club for a long time) an advantage or disadvantage for his trophy count?
Another post, another laughing smiley. The level of argument is very low with you, isn't it?! As for wasting your time, looking at your post history it seems you spend most of your day posting about Messi being the greatest of all time or slamming Ronaldo. To be honest, it doesn't seem as though your time is that precious.Slight chance in tactic
Nothing about playing for Valverde is a safe space. Or playing for Argentina.
As for the bolded part, you still seem not to understand why remaining part of a club and system that you've grown up in would feel safe. I don't think you'll ever get it, at this point.
Some fans, pleasee...
Let's say 99% of the football fans not just some fans throughout the history, that's the problem with your analysis making you an exceptional case if so called "adaptability" is the most important thing in football, and that's fine but please do not generalize. Almost all fans watch football to see players like Zico, Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, Messi, Xavi, Modric, Ronaldinho, Baggio, Platini etc. and their wizardry. Technique, creativity, dribbling, passing have always been at the heart of everything in football separating special ones from others as these are very rare qualities and make football exciting & fun to watch.
This adaptability BS only began in this social media age because your guy is significantly inferior in most these areas that make football fun to watch which is why watching your guy for most is boring (He was a very exciting player to watch at United and early time at Real until he decided to become a penalty box striker). Never heard about the adaptability BS for Pele, Maradona, Platini Zico, Gerd Muller, R9, Cruyff, Maldini, Platini, Ronaldinho until your guy entered the scene realizing he cannot compete with the best on technique, creativity, playmaking so decided to become a one-dimensional poacher to maximize his goals output calling this adaptability..
As a United fan, do you truly believe your guy has a strong mentality? To many football fans, your guy revealed how weak his mentality is by trying to jump-ship the moment things go sour two years in a row now. You are confusing narcisstic traits with strong mentality & leadership which is a common thing (there's even academic research on this confusion). For strong mentality and leadership, check players like Keane, Maldini, Totti etc., these guys are the mentally strong true leaders who are not fake or egomaniac & put team interests in front of everything..
Another post. More lashing out. Grow up and attempt to formulate a cogent argument.
You commenting about someone's posting history is as laughable as anything gets.
As far as your original post goes, Valverde's system wasnt the same as Guardiola's. Neither way Enrique. Messi was winning Balón dors and golden boots under both.
'Grow up' says the internet man that posts obsessively all day every day about a football player. You do make me chuckle. Seriously, though, your posting history is rather tragic. Given I've been back and forth with you on this for two days now, though, mine is also looking that way. Re Valverde, how long was he there for?
Oh the irony of a seething, unhinged obsessed man posting 24 hours straight about s player and projecting.
More tragic is someone with your posting history commenting about another.
Who cares how long Valverde was there for? His system was different so you got that wrong. And Messi was successful under that system so you got that wrong again.
Not seething! I actually find it quite funny. The only reason I have been back and forth so much the last couple of days is that I was at a conference so spent much of it on trains. You've been a fun distraction. Your obsession extends well beyond 24 hours though.
It matters how long Valverde was there for because that's two seasons out of 20, or whatever, where Messi played in a very significantly different system. Hardly a significant sample size, particularly as he was still in his comfort zone barca bubble. The moment he steps out of that, on the other hand...
Your reactions say otherwise but I'm enjoying watching you squirm. The fact that you're posting every 2 minutes indicates that you're definitely not at any conference of note, but sure.
As far as your post goes, Messi won Balón dors and golden boots under Valverde, under a different system, and a manager who is anything but an all time great. So you got that wrong, as usual.
Try again.
Back home now and just woke up, so still not left bed yet!Your reactions say otherwise but I'm enjoying watching you squirm. The fact that you're posting every 2 minutes indicates that you're definitely not at any conference of note, but sure.
As far as your post goes, Messi won Balón dors and golden boots under Valverde, under a different system, and a manager who is anything but an all time great. So you got that wrong, as usual.
Try again.
What did I get wrong? The fact that Messi outside Barcelona is a shadow of the player he is inside it?!
Suuurrrree.
Your original point - which was ridiculed - was that Messi played in the same system. You got that wrong. Now you're squirming and shifting the argument to "bbbut but it was only 2 seasons", which is irrelevant because he won the Balón dor out of his comfort zone.
Guys stop with insults. Get back on track
I'll never get my head around grown men arguing so vociferously over a couple of football players.
Yeah, this is becoming diminishing returns here. I'll quit while I'm behind!
Ok mate, have a good day!
For something tedious, you sure seem to do it an awful lotIt's been tedious and I agree.
Goodbye
For something tedious, you sure seem to do it an awful lot
Oh the irony coming from someone who's doing it right now
Can't help yourself, can ya?Need to meet at Epping Forest and sort this out like men, you two.
I was thinking more 'pistols at dawn'
I don't think it will be touched either because nobody besides Müller has even gotten close to that number. You'd need an almost perfect season to challenge it. Here are the most goals in a year:
| Player | Goals | Year |
| Lionel Messi | 91 | 2012 |
| Gerd Muller | 85 | 1972 |
| Pele | 75 | 1958 |
| Pele | 72 | 1965 |
| Zico | 72 | 1979 |
| Romario | 72 | 2000 |
It's one of those Wilt Chamberlain records. I can't imagine it being topped.
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The other one that I don't see being topped soon is the overal contribution record:
Mbappé's productivity is increasing but I'm still not sure he'll challenge that. And I don't see an out and out striker like Haaland (or any other) doing that because they wouldn't have a high enough assist total on top of their goals.
Just as your shit only started Ronaldo went to Juventus..
99% my arse . That’s just completely false and shows how biased you are that you think 99% would be against Ronaldo due to him having a lower technical ability.
Mental ability is beautiful, just because your IQ may not see it with your eyes doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.