Plenty of legendary World Cup players in the past weren't necessarily winners, I grew up reading about Cruyff, Neeskens, Puskas, Socrates, Platini, Baggio etc - none of them won the World Cup. To be fair to Messi, he has a Golden Ball as best player in the WC even if he doesn't have a trophy.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
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Plenty of legendary World Cup players in the past weren't necessarily winners, I grew up reading about Cruyff, Neeskens, Puskas, Socrates, Platini, Baggio etc - none of them won the World Cup. To be fair to Messi, he has a Golden Ball as best player in the WC even if he doesn't have a trophy.
or players that had an incredible WC and nobody claims them as Goats. Kempes for example, six goals. golden boot, MVP and Champion. Who cares? He is not better than Messi.
Messi wasn't the best player in 2014 WC, Muller, Kroos, and James Rodríguez had a better WC than Messi.
He won it for being Messi, not that he cares as he rather win the WC than the golden ball.
There's no way any of those players had a better WC than Messi. The only one who was close to him was Robben.
If it wasn't for expectations, nobody would say anybody else but Messi was the best individual in this tournament.
I love Messi, but he did nothing after group stage, I'm not talking about scoring, he actually was average in the knock out stage, and not by Messi standards btw.
You can't give WC golden ball to a player just for group stage performances.
Philip Lahm had also a better WC than Messi.
If that's the case, then why Ronaldo didn't win the WC golden ball in 2018... same as Messi he did feck all after group stage, and he was playing for a team that wasn't great as well.
Ronaldo didn’t get to the final though, but I agree that arguments can absolutely be made that other players were better than Messi in that WC
Sorry, but I disagree. Messi was better than the remaining players in the ko rounds as well. He was not exceptional that's true, but neither was the rest. Certainly no German player - we were a great collective full of world class players but nobody stood out individually really. Moreover, the group stage is also part of the WC. Thing is, judge any player in this tournament by the standards Messi is geld to and he'd be labelled an unworthy winner.
The point is he still had a good World Cup though and by any metric was the top 5 players of the tournament, even if you can argue who was best.
He wasn't even the best player in his team let alone the whole tournament.
PSG is missing so many players due to injuries and others engaged with their respective NTs (South America WC qualifiers and CAN) and Messi will likely make his debut in the Coupe de France tomorrow against Nice. He was rested for the previous Cup games.
The starting 11 should look like this.
Donnarumma - Dagba, Kehrer, Kimpembe, Bernat - Herrera, Danilo, Verratti - Messi, Icardi, Mbappé
The starting 11 should look like this.
Donnarumma - Dagba, Kehrer, Kimpembe, Bernat - Herrera, Danilo, Verratti - Messi, Icardi, Mbappé
He wasn't, best argentinian player in the knock-out stage was Javier Mascherano, even argentinian pundits/ex-players recognized it.
How can he be best WC player, when Mascherano was better than him in the knock-out stage?
Look at the history of WC golden balls, Messi is the only one who won it for group stage performance, as Zidane, Forlan,Maradona,Modric,Romario, Ronaldo Nazario, Paolo Rossi, Khan,etc delivered in the knock out stage.
I love Messi, but i don't think he was better than Muller, Philip Lahm,Robben or James Rodríguez in the WC.
The excuse that Germany was a better team is non-sense, players should be awarded whether they play for worse or great teams.
Messi was Argentina's best player in that tournament, who are you going to say was better, Mascherano? Mascherano had a better semi-final, that's it. Higher profile game doesn't make up for Messi easily being Argentina's best player in 4 of the first 7 games (half the tournament), and one of the better players in the other 3.
The only ones coming close to Messi in WC 2014 were Robben and James Rodriguez. Colombia got eliminated in the QFs and Holland lost to Argentina in the SFs. I get your point that he was not as dominant as we would like to see but he still was the main difference-maker for Argentina. Argentina defense was huge also along with Mascherano in that tournament, that's why it hurts even more to lose the WC for Argentine fans with the defense performing like that. Messi has made direct contribution to 5 out of 7 goals scored by Argentina, one of the other two goals was an own goal if I remember correctly, not to mention his to-be assists wasted by Palacio in the SF against Holland and Aguero in the final against Germany.
Messi's stat rankings are below:
average rating: 8.52 - 1st
most goals scored: 3rd
most succesful dribblings: 1st
motm (man of the match) awards: 4 (1st)
most chances created: 1st
most clear-cut goalscoring chances created: 1st
most accurate through balls: 1st
most interceptions as an attacker:1st
Also, Zidane and Forlan won the Golden Ball with less impressive stats..
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Ben Yedder is killing it. 2 goals yesterday.
It was more Argentinas offense than defense that took the team to the WC final in 2014 i'd say.
Not sure if Messi was THE outstanding player of the tournament, could have gone to Robben or James Rodriguez also, that said, he was more deserving of the award than Modric was 4 years later.
EDIT : Defense instead of offense.
Not sure if Messi was THE outstanding player of the tournament, could have gone to Robben or James Rodriguez also, that said, he was more deserving of the award than Modric was 4 years later.
EDIT : Defense instead of offense.
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Di Maria and Mascherano both had a tournament that was at least as good or even better. But who can argue with the very worthy Ballon d'Or 2021 always being best. He most define wasn't the best player last year nor was he the best one in this WC.
Sign him up!
Are you sure you have watched WC 2014 as saying Di Maria had a better tournament is laughable.. Di Maria did not even play in the SF or the final. He had to leave the pitch in the first half of the QF against Belgium. The guy finished the WC with a single goal and zero assist.
Argentina scored 2 goals and conceded 1 goal in 450 mn playing time during the KO stages.
How is that a good offense and a poor defense ?
Argentina had a good defensive unit in 2014, it was actually the offense where it was give it to Messi and pray. The only match their attack looked somewhat lively was against Belgium. In group stages they struggled to beat even fcuking Iran, until that goal by Messi.
Di Maria had a decent tournament, scored a crucial goal against Swiss, assisted by Messi. But it was in no way he had a better tournament than Messi, hilarious suggestion
. What goes against Messi is he didn't scored a single goal or assisted goal in the quaters, semis and the final. While he still created chances, but his miss in the final was the highlight for me. Had he scored that goal in the final, it would have been a totally different history.
It was no way that Messi had a bad tournament or he was ghosting, but he didn't had that extra edge which he generally showed for Barcelona. Best player of the tournament could have gone to any of the Robben, Messi or Neuer. It wouldn't have been undeserved. It wasn't like the other was miles above the other.
Di Maria had a decent tournament, scored a crucial goal against Swiss, assisted by Messi. But it was in no way he had a better tournament than Messi, hilarious suggestion
. What goes against Messi is he didn't scored a single goal or assisted goal in the quaters, semis and the final. While he still created chances, but his miss in the final was the highlight for me. Had he scored that goal in the final, it would have been a totally different history.It was no way that Messi had a bad tournament or he was ghosting, but he didn't had that extra edge which he generally showed for Barcelona. Best player of the tournament could have gone to any of the Robben, Messi or Neuer. It wouldn't have been undeserved. It wasn't like the other was miles above the other.
Starting tonight...
Bit sad knowing he's coming to the end of his carrier...
Bit sad knowing he's coming to the end of his carrier...
Don't want to sound negative but... how are PSG this boring with all that talent.
There are barely four first XI players on the pitch tonight.
Damn.
This is starting to get a bit embarrassing.
This is starting to get a bit embarrassing.
He's just not made for French football.
Too defensive and physical and not enough space.
Too defensive and physical and not enough space.
It’s almost as if when he’s not in the Barcelona bubble and stepped away into a different league he’s ….not the same
This is only Ligue 1 (no disrespect) which makes it even more shocking. Imagine if he had gone to England all these years.
Anyways can’t really say im surprised.
He just can't be bothered and has checked out. Hardly even runs on the pitch anymore.
Agreed.
No one cans say that Messi is not one of the GOATS due to his achievements and playing style at Barcelona- but for me I always had a feeling he couldn't replicate his La Liga consistency in a different league, that he might also struggle playing in a club that didn't play like Barcelona did with the ball on the floor possesion style (both for Barcelona and the opposition) that benefited his amazing technical ability. This is why for me he wasn't the outright no 1 GOAT, even if he is no doubt one of the GOATS in the history of football.
He should have probably gone to Man City to have the best ability to continue his Barcelona bubble benefit he had - maybe Pep goes to PSG and helps both him and the club out too (even though Pep hasn't been a CL winner after Barcelona either).
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Messi wasn't the best in 2014 WC. As several have stated he had players on his own team who performed better as well as players on opposing teams. Keylor Navas earned himself a move to Real Madrid and later PSG due to this World Cup. That's looking at performance rather than name.
Algeria had some great talent up front. Soudani, Slimani and Feghouli kept a 23 yr old Mahrez on the bench. Rais M'Bolhi in goal played out of his skin.
This is not even about Messi, this is pure football politics. Man of the Match of the final should have been Schweinsteiger (or Mascherano if Argentina had won). Instead it went to Götze, a late substitute who played 30-odd minutes out of the 120, because he scored the winning goal deep into extra time. In 1970 Pelé was awarded player of the tournament. But many believed Jairzinho who scored in every knockout game and finished top scorer of the tournament deserved it more. Alas, when a kid reads in the history books he will only know Messi as the winner.
It is what it is, those who saw it know. Ribéry went incredibly bitter in 2013 when he was robbed, Lewandowski responded with grace in 2020/2021 and was rewarded with the entire worlds sympathies.
Algeria had some great talent up front. Soudani, Slimani and Feghouli kept a 23 yr old Mahrez on the bench. Rais M'Bolhi in goal played out of his skin.
This is not even about Messi, this is pure football politics. Man of the Match of the final should have been Schweinsteiger (or Mascherano if Argentina had won). Instead it went to Götze, a late substitute who played 30-odd minutes out of the 120, because he scored the winning goal deep into extra time. In 1970 Pelé was awarded player of the tournament. But many believed Jairzinho who scored in every knockout game and finished top scorer of the tournament deserved it more. Alas, when a kid reads in the history books he will only know Messi as the winner.
It is what it is, those who saw it know. Ribéry went incredibly bitter in 2013 when he was robbed, Lewandowski responded with grace in 2020/2021 and was rewarded with the entire worlds sympathies.
He hasn’t ran in a long time. He’s still an all time great but this does bring him slightly down a level. we can’t even say age is a major factor since he’s the reigning Balon Dor winner and I was repeatedly told he deserved it.
Think people are laughing a bit too soon at Messi, he will obviously come good in France.
I stated before that he will find the physicality difficult. French league might not be the best but it’s always been a difficult league to score in, it’s only until Zlatan came that changed the perception
At his age I'm not really sure. I think he'll show a better level than he's doing now if he gets a long consistent run of games injury free, but I dont think we'll see the best of Messi. It's a bit sad really, I don't want the Messi/Ronaldo era ending but it has already. I honestly completely expect Messi to be finished at 35 and retire from european football at 36. The constant comparisons to the other guy gives the impression that their milage is similar but I don't think it is. Although he had great accerlation and agility in his prime, his attributes were always his technical abilties and his football intelligence. When his legs are gone and possibly motivation too, I don't see him keeping on producing.
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Yes, the last 13 years to be precise.
Tbh I've never really watched the french league, but I can imagine Zlatan skewed that perception and at his age. But I hold my hands up, I dont know much about the french league at all.
Nah, he ran when he was playing up top. They were runs in spurts but he was playing his part.
When he demanded to be dropped deeper he became an old man overnight.
Remember when posters said he'd do well in PL because he kept scoring against PL teams in CL? well duh, he was with Barca scoring against those teams. Its a different thing to be playing with another team. Almost like a different world if you had spent 80% of your career in Spain.
Plain and simple, not true. He never ran more than he does now. It's you that only pays attention to it when things aren't working out for him.
If I never saw a game of football in my life that would probably be the sort of logic I'd apply, too. Though I'd probably still get that LabLiga wiped the floor with the EPL for the best part of the last two decades. But since I did a bit of football in my life I instead just trust my eyes to recognize a great player. And Messi was way better than anything the EPL has had on offer.