Right, because there's not more to the national setup than players and coaches. You realize the players and coaches have changed at Barca too, right? Doesn't mean they haven't set the club up around him for the best part of fifteen years either...
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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It'll be a shame if he carries his PSG productivity to the World Cup. If I was an Argentinian I'd be pissed at PSG. They didn't sign Messi, they kidnapped Messi. They're not gonna win anything major outside of France and if they win domestic titles it would have happened with or without Messi. If they dont win anything it's even worse, then you can say they single handedly destroyed Messi's career. He's still physically fine but his mind is not connected to his feet whenever he plays for PSG. Maybe he's thinking "here we go again, I can beat 12 of these defenders but what's the difference between that and dribbling past my own kids when we're playing? just let me go home and let me enjoy my salaries, that's what I'm here for" but in spanish.
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There isn't. What exactly do you mean by Argentina and Barca setting the club around him for 15 years
I’ve heard some shite in my time on here, but claiming people didn’t didn’t realise how important Messi was is hilarious.
Despite the loss of him, Griezmann and Aguero, (all their goalscorers) they still look likely to get a Champions League place.
I'd love to be kidnapped like that one day. Messi knew exactly where he was going, he is as much responsible as PSG
Prove it to who? Ronaldo fanboys? And in retirement age for many footballers.
and what's the problem with that? isn't that normal to set the team up around the GOAT?
Was Argentina 86 NT or Napoli not set up around Maradona?
I'm sorry, you don't win the Balon D'or and copa America as the GOAT to many a people to suddenly not being able to provide performances in Ligue 1 whilst playing for the strongest team just literally the next month afterwards.
The poster said he had nothing left to prove. I think arguably to some he does so I said so.
Certainly normal to set your team up around a player that's one of the best of all time. Again, the poster said he didn't have anything to prove and I said to some he did. A point that he is certainly not proving on current form.
He took time to get going last season as well but wasnt marred by injuries. But he is at an age where most footballers have declined a lot. His last ballon d'dor was his weakest win ever. But yes his goal record in the league so far is shit.
I always found it very weird that prime Messi should have left his dream club who also were never going to sell him to prove mainly Ronaldo fans wrong. Makes sense. But yeah at 34 at psg he's not proving them wrong.
I'm not saying he should - I agree tbh, why would you?! I do think it'll be a pending question though, whether he could perform to the same level outside of Barca, particularly given what he's serving up at PSG atm. I obviously think he's one of the best to do it, for what it's worth
I don't feel i can extrapolate what say a 21-24 Messi would be like at a different club or league based on what he's doing at 34. Other people might but i cant. Messi in the past said the only time he thought about leaving Spain was because of all the stick he was getting for his tax fraud. Only when he was past his prime did he hand in a transfer request to join city at 33. Inter met his release clause at 150 mil euros when he was 18 but otherwise there wasnt any offers untill he was 33
Don't you guys think you get carried away a bit?
I mean, Messi is 34 and at this age decline can happen very abruptly but the guy just came out a Ballon D'Or worthy season and had one of the best Copa Americas in history a few months ago. It's clear that he hasn't performed to his standards so far for PSG (not only in terms of scoring but also in terms of general play) and obviously it could have to do with his age. But for all we know it might also have to do with...
- him leaving the club he played for for 20 (?) years
- joining a team that was built around two other superstats
- having almost no break in the summer
- being either injured, sick or playing for Argentina two thirds of the time
Considering all this and also taking into account that he already had a few very promising performances for PSG, I think it is a little bit premature to assume he's finished or dropped a few levels during the last 6 months or so.
I mean, Messi is 34 and at this age decline can happen very abruptly but the guy just came out a Ballon D'Or worthy season and had one of the best Copa Americas in history a few months ago. It's clear that he hasn't performed to his standards so far for PSG (not only in terms of scoring but also in terms of general play) and obviously it could have to do with his age. But for all we know it might also have to do with...
- him leaving the club he played for for 20 (?) years
- joining a team that was built around two other superstats
- having almost no break in the summer
- being either injured, sick or playing for Argentina two thirds of the time
Considering all this and also taking into account that he already had a few very promising performances for PSG, I think it is a little bit premature to assume he's finished or dropped a few levels during the last 6 months or so.
They will be playing Europa League for a long time.
They are 1 point behind Atletico in 4th and 5 behind Betis in 3rd with a game in hand.
As much as we like to revel in their misery, they will spend at worst only next season in the EL. The financial gulf between them and the rest of La Liga means that they will not face Utd plights in the long term.
It's not like they put a gun against Messi's head to make him sign that contract. For the money they're paying him, his mind really should be there when playing for PSG.
Nobody has the smallest clue about where Messi's mind is, I baffled by the amount of people in here who manage to make a psychological analysis of what's going on in Messi's head right now. He had a pretty slow start at Barcelona last season and that was with any transfer and without a summer COPA. He is disapointing so far but there's still half of the season left and that's when it really matters.
He could be key player for you in Champions League against Real Madrid. And hopefully he will be, just don't understand people blaming on PSG or French league for issues Messi may be having. It's not like he didn't choose to go there.
Ronaldo was top goal scorer in Serie A at the age of 36. Just saying.
Yeah, it only took Juve 3 years of imploding their squad to play Ronaldo ball, alienating all the forwards in the team to focus their offense on him and lose Serie A after a 9 year winning streak, so you could come here to celebrate that Ronaldo beat Quagliarella, Immobile, Muriel and Lukaku for the top scorer trophy. Do you write for The Sun?
Messi is having some off months for obvious reasons, he's not fit, he probably had problems settling in Paris, a different league, new role in a team that has other players to share the burden of scoring goals like when his output plummeted in 2016 with Luis Suarez being on fire or even the fact that he has already hit the post 5 times in 12 games. There's a mix of logical reasons and also abnormalities that probably explain his performances.
If you want to compare his first season outside of Barcelona to that other 5 time Ballon d'Or winner, you may also be able to remember that on his first season a Juventus his overall scoring output was almost a half of his last season in Real Madrid, so Messi not being at the level he had in Barcelona these past months it's not something to write home about, more than expected.
Ronaldo was top goal scorer in Serie A at the age of 36. Just saying.
There is a thread for that. And he isnt built like ronaldo or made his game about being a poacher. As Messi gets older he's made his game more about playmaking whilst ronaldo has streamlined his game to being a penalty box striker. But their milage is probably different. I think Messi will retire from european football at 36.
Didn't he have 30 goals and assists in 31 serie a games? Seems a weird stick to beat him with.
I see your point. Yes, I was also surprised that Messi was not able to show his magic by now at PSG as a Messi fan.
Real games are key, if they lose, the season is basically over for Messi. However, if they beat Real somehow with Messi playing a key role, I think most people will just ignore his underwhelming Ligue 1 performance so far attributing that to injuries, covid etc..
Agreed. He can still turn it around...he's a little genius. Weird season for him so far.
Ronaldo was top goal scorer in Serie A at the age of 36. Just saying.
Luca Toni did it at 37 and he was playing for the mighty Verona.
Your second point was my main suspicion, but then Neymar got injured and I thought Messi would be back to his old self with PSG now not having to accommodate Mbappe, Neymar and Messi at the same time. Unfortunately, that did not happen. I have no idea what formation would be the best for PSG to perform well with Messi, as they are playing really bad in most games and do not seem to improve.
The problem is with Real games so close, he needs to regain his form very soon as nobody would care how he would perform in the rest of season in Ligue 1 if they lose to Real. He also does not give many interviews sharing how much he thinks injuries or covid etc. are playing a role in his performance, so we can only speculate..
He already did with Argentina
Ronaldo was top goal scorer in Serie A at the age of 36. Just saying.
serie a is a poor league, they have the most random people leading the scoring charts there.
Dont think people like him cares about the copa. But anyway all this stick on Messi for loyalty and staying at a club where he was happy is so stupid.
PSG literally did not win the league last season without Messi, pretty funny how you post is built up. Of course they’ll win it 99 out of a 100 times, but still. Messi and Ronaldo are old, they could have retired now, let us all just enjoy the show while it lasts, seriously. None of us should judge these for what is happening now, their legacies were written a long time ago. One season, these insane players scored a combined total of over 90 league goals… a feat that will never happen again.
it’s the most bizarre thing, can’t think of any other team sport where a player gets penalized for it
Especially since people moan about the lack of loyalty. He's the greatest club legend in history.
For me even when I look at Ronaldinho he was a different player when playing for Barcelona than when he played for AC Milan, PSG or even Brazil.
That's not saying he was not successful at these clubs - but at Barcelona it seemed like the world got easier for him to go and control exactly that- the world. The players he played with, the players he had to play against for the majority of a season, the style of Football that he was playing and playing against - it just seemed to suit the most technical player to go play at Barcelona and in La Liga.
It's why I craved to see Messi outside of Barcelona - to see how good he could be to pull off being the most technical player in a team that wasn't as technical, in a league that didn't focus on technical play as much as La Liga, different tactics that he had to play with and play against.
I used to watch him for Argentina and realise that Messi is definitely a legend - but his performances there never screamed GOAT for me. His Barcelona performances were another level and I wanted to see if he could do that outside of Barcelona.
Hopefully, in the next year or two we can get 55%> of his Barcelona performances replicated at PSG because it would help answer the question I always had. We can scrap the 45% of difference for him getting older and playing in a different team.
That's not saying he was not successful at these clubs - but at Barcelona it seemed like the world got easier for him to go and control exactly that- the world. The players he played with, the players he had to play against for the majority of a season, the style of Football that he was playing and playing against - it just seemed to suit the most technical player to go play at Barcelona and in La Liga.
It's why I craved to see Messi outside of Barcelona - to see how good he could be to pull off being the most technical player in a team that wasn't as technical, in a league that didn't focus on technical play as much as La Liga, different tactics that he had to play with and play against.
I used to watch him for Argentina and realise that Messi is definitely a legend - but his performances there never screamed GOAT for me. His Barcelona performances were another level and I wanted to see if he could do that outside of Barcelona.
Hopefully, in the next year or two we can get 55%> of his Barcelona performances replicated at PSG because it would help answer the question I always had. We can scrap the 45% of difference for him getting older and playing in a different team.
You do know why Ronaldinho was sold from barca right? The most recent iconic brazilian players have short peaks. He looked like a different player at Milan because he was no longer good enough for barca. Someone like Henry didnt excatly tear up trees at Barca despite going there when he was 30? Despite him being technical and all.
People on the internet crave all sorts of things, i doubt Messi cares. He wasnt going to downgrade from Barca in his prime.
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But Ligue 1 is not a poor league?
I think to get the best out of a player like Messi, Cristiano, Neymar or Mbappe, you build the team around them. Not only in terms of players but also in terms of tactics. They're exceptionally gifted but to really capitalize on them you have to bring them into situations in which they excel as often as possible. Many supporters of those players don't really want to admit it because they somehow feel that it belittles the players but it's part of the truth that they exceptional performances occured as a result of their team mates and coaching. Personally, I don't think that takes anything away from them but rather is a testament to their abilities.
Now you take them out of this environment and they find themselves in fewer situations in which they can play out their strengths. Personally, I think this is primarily to blame for Messi not only scoring but also participating less. It takes time to find new automatisms. And if you miss training and games half the time, aren't really fit, etc. it drags out the issue.
I mean, it obviously could also be that he declined drastically the past few months. But to be honest, I think it is very unlikely that a player has such a steep decline in just a few months if he doesn't suffer from a really severe injury, like an ACL or something like that. Especially since Messi still has the typical Messi plays once in a while - they just don't happen as frequently as before.
It is, but leading the scoring in either of those leagues is nothing to write home about
Ultimately its guess work.
He had the ability to win the Balon D'or just a few months ago - he drifts on a plane and suddenly he is a bit more easier to deal with literally a month or two after the copa America.
Shevchenko was nuts in Italy and crap in England.
Coutinho England vs Spain.
Forlan England vs Spain
Torres great at Liverpool and not so good at Chelsea.
I could give you a list of 100 players that performed for one team but were different once they moved.
A players ability to perform and be successful in different teams and at different times and in different leagues is a great way to make assumptions of a player.
One of the greatest thing that shocked me was Thierry Henry - how he looked amazing and like no one else in the world at Arsenal - then I watched him in Barcelona and he suddenly didn't look as special playing for them because there were more technical and consistent players in the very same team.
That's not saying Henry is shit or all these players are crap - it takes immense ability to be amazing for one team; but ultimately playing away from your comfort zone has led to many a player being seen more accurately.
Like the kid that conquered university whilst still living with his parents- amazing but is he better than the kid that conquered University when moving away from his family and living by himself?
Don't you get tired of making essentially the same point over and over just worded slightly differently like hundreds of times?