Not really when I get that the answer was right all along.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Not really when I get that the answer was right all along.
Do you think a prime/young version of Messi would struggle at PSG? And someone like Torres was alreadly sharply declining at Liverpool due to his injuries. Chelsea were mugs for buying him at the time.
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Don't even try, it's best to ignore him. He's probably the least knowledgeable person on this board. I'd be surprised if he could even tell you the shape of a football or explain the offsite rule.
Considering his thoughts on Ronaldinho, I think I would have to agree with you.
'People like him'?! You know nothing about me! As I said, the 'well he's done it for Argentina' argument doesn't hold much water for me to counter the barca hothouse argument because 1. He's grown up at the centre of the Argentina setup and been a part of it for 15 years or more, playing alongside the same players etc and 2. He's arguably underachieved with Argentina to date. Maybe people like you find it hard to look beyond your own preferences where Messi is concerned.
Yes they did not hence a section was vocal for sell Messi, and build the team again.
And they are also in Europa League and out of every other cup tournament.
I mean you are disputing that no one didnt realised Messi importance, and than go on to write a sentence undermining his importance. Just figure which is more hilarious.
Well thats actually what i meant.
I haven’t undermined anything, are they or are they not likely to get CL without him? Yes.
Would they have been much better with him? Yes.
Did everyone already know this? Yes.
So cute!
You were the guy who got scared when I dismissed the Bundesliga! Another one I got right that you said No to
I talked about Ronaldo effecting United in a bad way before most people followed.
Yet I don't know the offside rule
Most of it was down to stat-padding. More than half of his np goals were scored in easy games against 3 relegation battling teams.Ronaldo was top goal scorer in Serie A at the age of 36. Just saying.
Serie A is a very high-scoring league (average over 3 goals/game vs 2.5 in Spain). When you are the main goalscorer of your team and have enough scoring capabilities you got chances to score 20+. Old Quagliarella won the scoring table in 2018/19, arguably Ronaldo's best season in Italy. And Immobile has been taking advantage of a similar situation (Lazio players working hard to make him score) but you don't see Juve or Inter going after Immobile.
Ronaldo didn't win Juve the difficult games last season. When Juve was losing at home to Benevento (A relegation team, but that game was tough, and without Dybala) you'd have Ronaldo shooting from impossible positions and systematically ignoring the movements of Chiesa and Bernardeschi around him and Juve end up losing 0-1. But the same behavior would work against Udinese, Ronaldo gets a penalty and a header, and hallelujah he is praised as the saviour.
The club was out of the title contention very early and only secured top 4 thanks to Napoli bottling it at the very end. The Champions league ended miserably with 2 quite poor performances by Ronaldo. And this decline could be seen the year before, Ronaldo's second season, when Juve won the scudetto with 83 points, the lowest total in ages.
Agree.
Complete non-sense to rate players based on how many teams they were successful in.
Nobody who knows Football use that metric, otherwise people would consider Zlatan a GOAT comparable to Maradona, just because he delivered in almost every country he has played in, while even Maradona failed in Spain.
Reality says Zlatan never showed GOAT level, except for 1 season in Ligue 1, and i doubt anybody is gonna call him GOAT because of that...
People overrate Cristiano move to Serie A, he was good, but tbf current Serie A is far from being the best league.There is a reason why he stopped competing for Balloon D'or when he moved to Italy.
Old Luca Toni and old Quagliarella scored more than Ronaldo in modern Serie A at the same age.
Performances in current Serie A aren't Baloon worthy anymore.
Does anybody here think Ciro Immobile (very good player) is world class?
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Why would Zlatan be great if he didn't win a single CL in his life
Can't even understand the basics!
You think zlatan would be viewed the same if he won CL'S during his time for AC Milan, Barcelona, United and PSG? The guy would be called a GOAT for being so successful- ultimately he wasn't.
So that's that written off with ease
Excuses and excuses by the Messi boys for Ligue 1 displays. beautiful stuff! I can't stand Ronaldo anymore in the PL but the excuses Messi is getting for poor displays in Ligue 1 is hilarious when a player is doing much better in a tougher league at an older age in arguably a weaker team.
Literally the current Balon D'or winner is struggling! Not one from a couple years back..
It just gets really tiresome. Especially since it would have been so irrational to move from Barca in his prime years. Someone like cryuff didnt score as much for barca either as for Ajax. Still a goat. Didnt win a WC either. Also much more than a goalscorer
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That's funny because I remember how one of the excuses that were made for him is how he never had a top manager post Pep Guardiola and Luis Enrique.
Would have been perfectly rational to move and prove himself in his peak years when he was getting managed by managers like Koeman, Valverde and Setien. But no.
Yet his fans just were gobsmacked about Messi ranking numbers and world class goals against teams like Getafe and Alves consistently through a year whilst he got kicked out of CL's every year.
Anyway, follow your Bayern Leverkusen friend and just ignore me! Follow my Ronaldo posts and you know I'm not just a Ronaldo fan like you are Messi's, talking shite about Ronaldo every chance you get.
You don't feel crap repeating every thing you say just with other words either do you?
He was one of the worst transfers for Barcelona. So he didn't deliver in Spain.
He got 17 goals in his best PL season when United finished 6th. Good return but again, nothing special. Also had an abysmal chance conversion rate.
He has been good in the Serie A but even in Serie A he has never ever had anything near any record breaking numbers.
His scoring rate was high only in France at a time when we all know how the league was. There's a reason he never got those numbers anywhere else.
Won't even talk about his Champions League records. He's a journeyman.
Ronaldo actually conquered different leagues getting insane numbers everywhere. Even in a "poor season" in Serie A he had like 27 league goals at his age. Plus Ronaldo has done insanely well in the Champions League. We have all seen how well he adapts to different difficulties and atmospheres.
Using Zlatan as a tool in this example was daft.
Ronaldo delivers everywhere and is highly adaptable. So the point means that Ronaldo is sustainable in different scenarios out of his comfort zone which is a totally valid point. And I'm no Ronaldo fan. Just giving his example here.
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Danke.
That's funny because I remember how one of the excuses that were made for him is how he never had a top manager post Pep Guardiola and Luis Enrique.
Would have been perfectly rational to move and prove himself in his peak years when he was getting managed by managers like Koeman, Valverde and Setien. But no.
Yet his fans just were gobsmacked about Messi ranking numbers and world class goals against teams like Getafe and Alves consistently through a year whilst he got kicked out of CL's every year.
Anyway, follow your Bayern Leverkusen friend and just ignore me! Follow my Ronaldo posts and you know I'm not just a Ronaldo fan like you are Messi's, talking shite about Ronaldo every chance you get.
You don't feel crap repeating every thing you say just with other words either do you?
I dont think you've followed much ive said about Ronaldo at all. Only during valverde was arguarbly in his prime. After the exit to bayern he wanted out.
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Why would Zlatan be great if he didn't win a single CL in his life
Can't even understand the basics!
You think zlatan would be viewed the same if he won CL'S during his time for AC Milan, Barcelona, United and PSG? The guy would be called a GOAT for being so successful- ultimately he wasn't.
So that's that written off with ease
Excuses and excuses by the Messi boys for Ligue 1 displays. beautiful stuff! I can't stand Ronaldo anymore in the PL but the excuses Messi is getting for poor displays in Ligue 1 is hilarious when a player is doing much better in a tougher league at an older age in arguably a weaker team.
Literally the current Balon D'or winner is struggling! Not one from a couple years back..
Nobody calls Eto'O a GOAT, and he was great in the UCL for Barcelona and Inter, and certainly he did way more than Zlatan in the UCL.
Winning UCL with different teams doesn't make you a GOAT.
Is Clarence Seedorf a GOAT comparable with Maradona or Pele? I mean look the CLs he won with different teams, yet not a single personality in Football has called him GOAT.
Only Wikipedia experts rate players solely on goals.
It's a symbol of modern football fans.
My grandma can do the same, and she never watched a single football game in her entire life.
Fortunately, there is a reason why former Man Utd players rate Messi higher than Ronaldo, despite them having Ronnie in their team...i rather trust them than some guy who never even played amateur football in a non-league.
Doesnt need to keep turning into the Messi vs Ronaldo thread.
So you probably value the "Fifa the best" award more than the "Ballon d' or" then. Since it has more representation from the people who have actually kicked a ball for a living and managed teams....
So you probably value the "Fifa the best" award more than the "Ballon d' or" then. Since it has more representation from the people who have actually kicked a ball for a living and managed teams....
Which has existed since 2016.
Ronaldo may also end with 17 goals this season and leading United to 6th in fairness
I highly doubt that but this isnt the other thread.
So you probably value the "Fifa the best" award more than the "Ballon d' or" then. Since it has more representation from the people who have actually kicked a ball for a living and managed teams....
They both count. Why not?
Plus Lewandowski winning it isn't wrong either, it could have gone both ways, very close.
I actually like Lewandowski, I'm not the one flaming Bundesliga, and then praising Lewandowski for scoring there just to not see Messi winning another Balloon...very weird indeed.
Wrong thread, and literally nobody asked.
Zlatan and Ronaldo are very bad comparisons to Messi.... Messi is a ball dominating player, the whole Barcelona setup was built on him having the ball heavily in the final third, same with Henry at Arsenal, Henry himself has touched upon this and how he felt he was actually hurting them by it and some of them feeling they had to give him the ball instead of the better pass to someone else. It's never going to be a quick transition, yes some might get the statistical success quick or hit their stride in the right moments(RM winning the CL in Zidane's first year) - but there will generally be issues with this kind of transition.
Zlatan and Ronaldo aren't that - therefor it's far easier to adapt to new systems and teammates. Far easier doesn't necessarily make it 'easy' either, it's still a testament to their talents as other elite strikers have clearly failed at adapting, mainly Shevchenko and Torres from who were mentioned above - but they both made bad club choices too in Chelsea - unless they privately knew they were make that choice for the payday.
Zlatan and Ronaldo aren't that - therefor it's far easier to adapt to new systems and teammates. Far easier doesn't necessarily make it 'easy' either, it's still a testament to their talents as other elite strikers have clearly failed at adapting, mainly Shevchenko and Torres from who were mentioned above - but they both made bad club choices too in Chelsea - unless they privately knew they were make that choice for the payday.
What was?
Messi has prove his worth for Argentina and different systems over the years. If you don't see this, you know nothing about football o you just don't see football, you only care about the stats. We all know what type of fanboys do that.
I also do not think that this is a decline due to age but the process is taking too long. Hope he makes a great comeback against Real as that would easily make up for his underperformance in Ligue 1 for most.
Yes, he had good performances with PSG here and there which gives me hope. PSG fans seem to have serious doubts on Pochettino's tactics and effectiveness as they are being dominated by almost any other team in Ligue 1 though somehow getting wins. That PSG is a struggling side against anyone is not helping Messi as well. It is really frustrating to watch PSG getting dominated in most games with no cohesion etc. and Pochettino does not seem to have any solutions. So, Messi is really facing both individual and team-level issues making things more complicated for him I think..
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That you dont rate his Argentina performances, cops win or not. Which is fair enough.
So I take it you aren't one who hopes Poch is United manager next season.
He'd have an even better reputation if he'd won the WC, though, no?
I dunno, when I was a kid the legendary players were WC winners. But football's changed and club football is more prevalent now.
It is hard to judge Pochettino for me as he is unable to implement his high intensity, pressing style at PSG with the players he has and probably the pressure he is facing from PSG board, Leonardo etc. But, checking PSG forum, most fans seem to want him gone finding him insufficient for the job and weak in character.
He might be a good fit for United assuming he is given the full freedom to implement his style. For ex., Ronaldo will not be a good fit for that.
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WC used to have more quality back then, as Bosman ruling wasn't established yet , most national teams had players from the same league and country.
Now the difference in quality between international tournaments and club competitions is massive.Which is why people, for the most part, stopped rating player based solely on national team performances.
E.g Xhaka has always been great for Switzerland, i don't remember him having many bad games, wether against top teams or normal teams... meanwhile Arsenal fans want him out their club ,since he has been very underwhelming for them.
Well yes he would. A lot of this is fine margins though. Argentina have always been knocked out by mainly better teams. For some having a wc or not is a deal breaker. For others not so much. Messi could have played for Spain if he wanted and i doubt it would make them a worse team so he'd probably have had that wc. It doesnt really change much my perception of how great a player he is. Its a hole in his cv and the only thing missing. He definitely could have had more iconic world cup performances and i dont think he's infallible there
Thanks you answered your own question about why Pele and Maradona were rated so highly without CL'S and different clubs.
It is basically Germany making life miserable for Argentina since that WC win in 1986. It is like they have been on a mission to take their revenge and they never get satisfied.
Argentina lost WC finals in 1990 and in 2014, QFs in 2006 and 2010 QFs to Germany, that's kind of embarrassing for a major force like Argentina tbh. Argentina should have won 2006 had Pekerman not sabotaged the team by replacing Riquelme and Crespo. They also had better chances in WC 2014 final and really should have won. Higuain, Palacio, Aguero and Messi all had clear chances, but seems like luck was not on their side as usual against Germany..
Ronaldo fan boys are boring, please go to the Messi vs Ronaldo thread.
who cares? Ronaldo is still not as good as Messi and never will be. Let it go already it 's embarrasing.