Let me guess, the manager, the team mates, the weather, the crowd, the opposition let Messi down again? 
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
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Oh guys look who's back!
Messi is a fantastic player, but he is not a good leader.
If Higuain wasn't so utterly rubbish Argentina might have had 2 titles in the last 2 years. There's only so much Messi can do.
I still think Messi is the best player I've ever seen, I never saw Pele or peak Maradona, but I do think it's odd how little impact he seems to have in these big tournaments.
He was very quiet last year after the group stage and he's only scored 1 goal in this Copa America and that was a penalty. Maybe he's not being used right.
He was very quiet last year after the group stage and he's only scored 1 goal in this Copa America and that was a penalty. Maybe he's not being used right.
Running out of opportunities to stamp his class on the international stage.
Running out of opportunities to win a big international competition, more like.
I don't think he will. This team making the World Cup final was surprising. Copa America final is more expected. Won neither of them so it's a long shot.
I don't think he will. This team making the World Cup final was surprising. Copa America final is more expected. Won neither of them so it's a long shot.
Argentina played terrible football. They didn't try to win the game at all and Chile deserved the win.
Higuain is a major bottler, missed a sitter in front of goal and skied a penalty over the bar. How he keeps playing over Tevez I will never understand it.
Looks like Messi's team mates just are not the same level as him so it's harder for him to play his natural game when the movement around him is poor so he can't play his 1-2 passes with quick dribbles like he can at Barca.
His team mates are always looking to get him involved in the game at Barca, wasn't so much the case with Argentina.
Higuain is a major bottler, missed a sitter in front of goal and skied a penalty over the bar. How he keeps playing over Tevez I will never understand it.
Looks like Messi's team mates just are not the same level as him so it's harder for him to play his natural game when the movement around him is poor so he can't play his 1-2 passes with quick dribbles like he can at Barca.
His team mates are always looking to get him involved in the game at Barca, wasn't so much the case with Argentina.
Messi fails again for Argentina. Suppose it's different when you're not playing for a side that averages 5 a game in a league that's a flat track outside of the top two. Shame he's been tripe outside of his comfort zone.
Like maradona failed at Barca I suppose. Or to win the European Cup.
Also, tripe
Serie A back then averaged a goal a game, it contained some great sides with awesome defences. Compare that to the flat track that is La Liga.
Like score at least one goal in the knockout stage. It's been 8 years since he's done that.
Comfort zones.
Seems harsh to single out Messi for last night. Argentina did a terrible job of getting the ball to him. He kept having to drop deeper and deeper. Also the ref was pretty weak. Chile basically got away with fouling him every time he got the ball. I struggle to think of anyone who would have been able to do more in those circumstances.
A fantastic Man of the match performance in the semis more than makes up for not scoring a goal.
Messi doesn't just score against la liga defences though. His scoring rate in Europe is also obscenely good. And he's never just been about goals either. He's the best passer in the game.
And messi doesn't just score more he scores far far more than maradona ever did. Which is offset by maradona being a different kind of player by all accounts. So it's a non point for me.
My point is that people love drawing up this perfect image of players from the past. You can just imagine people tearing into maradona during his Barca days for not destroying everyone in sight and falling out with the management etc. and for not winning the European cup ever. It's all petty. Didn't he also get sent off in a World Cup knockout game? Also handled the ball for his greatest achievement. If one wants to be small time there's plenty of material there to sink your teeth into. But like I said, it's silly one upmanship.
I didn't know Messi was shite outside of Spain. I guess him slapping the elite of just about every European league in football isn't relevant
His record in the Champions league is ridiculously good. Argentina's problems run a lot deeper than Messi. It always makes me laugh when someone like Messi gets criticised for not winning an international tournament singlehandedly. In a team sport the idea that it all comes down to one player is just so utterly stupid.
I've not even mentioned him. I'm just talking about Messi and the fact he's nowhere near as good outside his comfort zone. For me, a test of any person is breaking the mould, for a boxer it's to lose and come back next fight, for a batsman it's to score runs against bowling they struggle against. For Messi it's performing away from a truly great Barca side.
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I claimed earlier that Messi is the best ever. Apparently, such a claim was a bit premature. Obviously, he is not the same player with Argentina. Overall, he's one of the best ever, up there with Pele and Maradona, IMO, but hardly the best. His game is quite dependent on his Barca team mates. Neymar and Suarez helped him a lot last season by opening spaces for him to operate in. Surprisingly, Neymar and Suarez manage to keep the same level of performances with their national teams whereas Messi looks like a different player, still world class but not particularly outstanding.
I am mentioning him, because if he's the gold standard according to some then even that has some big blights on it.
Why was Argentina and Napoli not considered MAradona's comfort zones? Why is his spell at Barcelona not outside his comfort zone? Seems very selective to me.
Messi was one of the best players at last years World Cup and came within an inch of winning. So this idea that he can't do it away from Barcelona is nonsense.
Coming back from defeat to winning? Barca went trophy less last season, and were mediocre at the start of last season and 4 points behind Madrid in a league where 4 points is like 6/7. He inspired to them to a historic treble eventually.
Why do people behave as though international football is the gold standard?
P
Perhaps he should've moved elsewhere a couples of years back. Barcelona is one massive comfort zone.
My phone is a pain.
Why would he miss the opportunity of helping create what many consider the greatest club side ever and dominate a top league and win Europeans cups, and 2 trebles? He could easily join arsenal or us and win the premise league so satisfy you, but it makes zero sense.
Do you really think United or arsenal with messi couldn't win a premise league title?
And btw Barca wouldn't have had the same domination without him. They'd have gone trophyless last season for example. So, he's chosen that over some titles with other teams in other leagues. Sensible choice IMO.
I didn't watch a single minute of the Copa America and I've concluded that Messi isn't as good as Muzzy Izzet.
Don't think that takes anything away from his ability/achievements, but retrospectively his club career will look pretty boring though. There's no real great story to it as he's played in a stacked super team for the majority of his club career.
His reusal to track back and do anything defensively was and is annoying and a problem for Argentina.
Lost a world cup final in extra time and a copa america final on penalties and americano, spoony and cal? are all mutually wanking each other off like he's bombed hard for Argentina.
Still created their only clear chance from open play, and give him some credit for stepping up first and scoring his penalty, i know 'big' players who either choke in shootouts or wait for a later penalty to get the glory and never even get to hit one
Still created their only clear chance from open play, and give him some credit for stepping up first and scoring his penalty, i know 'big' players who either choke in shootouts or wait for a later penalty to get the glory and never even get to hit one
Didn't Messi actually have a good tournament? One quiet game and he's a flat track bully again. Just shows how misleading it is to insist on using international knock-out competitions as a barometer of greatness. If the Copa games had been a very short league campaign he'd still have been the best player in it.
Not really. Only Germany and Spain were supposed to have better teams than Argentina.
I have always been a big fan of Messi and rate his as the best, but in order to cement his legacy he should do something in International Stage. Argentina has had a great team but still cannot win. While it can be argued that the players let him down, it is not that Messi was so excellent in these 2 tournaments. Also, it isn't that Maradona had better teammates than Messi, in fact this Argentina team (player for player) is better than Maradona's.
It depends how history will give weight to these tournaments, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is remembered in the tier of Di Stefano/Cruyff instead of Pele/Maradona cause of his lack of success for Argentina. After all if Cruyff would have won the WC in 1974 and Di Stefano would have won a world cup (he should have played in one first), they would have been remembered every bit as good as Pele/Maradona. While now, the International football isn't as important as before (when it was almost the only thing that matters), it is still important and it can be used in arguments about why Messi wasn't as good as Pele.
Argentina have one of the best squads in world football, they just can't seem to put it together.
Romero, Zabaleta, Garay, Otamendi, Rojo, Mascherano, Pastore, Messi, ADM, Aguero, Tevez and Higuain. That's a really good bunch of players.
Romero, Zabaleta, Garay, Otamendi, Rojo, Mascherano, Pastore, Messi, ADM, Aguero, Tevez and Higuain. That's a really good bunch of players.
Contrary to Caf's beliefs, goals matters. This is the fourth tournament in a row when Messi failed to score a single goal in KO stage despite playing 11 games. That is poor even for Welbeck's standards, let alone for one of the best goalscorers of all time. In fact, he managed to score in only one of those 4 tournaments (last year) in group stage. 4 goals in 23 matches is bad.
he's the best ever, but even he can't make other players score their penalties.
Holland had a better 'team' than Argentina at the world cup in my opinion. And that Argentina team on the whole is really over-rated. They've reverted back to looking weak defensively, their midfield is powderpuff and lacks creativity.
Football simpletons just look at their list of attackers and think 'Oh that's a brilliant team they have to be favourites' but you can't win being strong in one area and much weaker in others, and there's no chemistry between those attackers. Well maybe Messi and Aguero, but Pastore and Di Maria are both too ball greedy and don't have enough between their ears to make it work. Higuain is a huge bottler on the big stage and Lavezzi just isn't very good.
Football simpletons just look at their list of attackers and think 'Oh that's a brilliant team they have to be favourites' but you can't win being strong in one area and much weaker in others, and there's no chemistry between those attackers. Well maybe Messi and Aguero, but Pastore and Di Maria are both too ball greedy and don't have enough between their ears to make it work. Higuain is a huge bottler on the big stage and Lavezzi just isn't very good.
You're joking, right? Holland had the poorest team from top teams. They overachieved.
FFS, their defense wouldn't been out of place for a midtable EPL team, and their midfield was even worse. They had two world class players, one of which was playing the best football of his career (and IMO was by far the best player in WC) and LVG made the team completely dependent on him, while playing 5 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders.
Argentina had Messi, Aguero and Di Maria among others who were in top 10 players in the world. They had a very good defense too.
Comfort zone.
this thread is incdredible.
this thread is incdredible.
He was alright. Agree with your point though. Of course this should also count for DI Maria who had a very good tournament up until yesterday.