I think it's a bit simplistic and reductionist to blame Messi for not replicating his Barca performances. He had a moderately good WC and a very good CL and can't possibly maintain his world beater levels all the time. His international performances also suffer from a lack of general squad solidarity the Argies seem to lack, and which does exist at Barca.
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
Argentina should try and lure Sampaoli. His style would be perfect for Messi.
True. Another international tournament, no medal, fairly underwhelming performance.
This was a golden chance to win something at international level and he really failed to show up today.
"Greatest of all time" 
"Greatest of all time"
Pretty hard to argue against it with his Club form, it's the international record which people look down upon.
Made it to the Copa America final and World Cup Final though, Higuain is making it more difficult for him than Ronaldo for some reason.
Choker....a bit like @Marcosdeto on cock.
"Greatest of all time"
Well, when you put it like that...
I'd like to see more from him when he plays in a team that isn't always dominating the game, in adverse situations. He tends to become mediocre in these adversities.. That's why he's still not in the Maradona and Pele level.
i dont choke
and for all you, messi haters, the team were he plays lost one game on penalties, not his fault that higuain missed a golden chance that messi created during the 90 minutes, or that pipita and banega missed their penaltis
but, after all, this year he won another treble, another CL, another copa del rey and another Liga
Greatest of all Time, wether you like it or not
like he did against bayern?
For a 2nd (!) time as well.
He didn't have the best of games, but there's only so much you can do when your team plays route one ball.
Pretty much every CL tie he does, the problem is with Argentina he receives the ball, dribbles past one or two, passes the ball and then the receiver wastes the ball or doesn't return it. It happens pretty much every game, you can't suddenly make Pastore a better player, suddenly make Higuain not waste golden opportunitys etc.
The difference is the fact the team doesn't win, if Higuain scored for Argentina and made it 1-0 the history books would gloss over a lot of it.
It's the same with the World Cup, the chances fell to other players.
Pelé was in a terrific Brazil team which people seem to forget, he only the Player of the Tournament in one of those tournaments, which Messi was in 2014, the thing is he cannot make his team mates suddenly better players, he is still one player in a team of 11 that is dysfunctional with a terrible coach.
Maradona made other players better.
i said it before, when messi goes through two players he has neymar and suarez that most of the time are unmarked
when he does it with argentina he looks up and there's not one single player unmarked, and when they are, like the other day against paraguay, he assists three times
maradona never won the copa america either
or the CL, or la liga or la copa del rey, even though he played for barcelona, were he flunked hard
His performance in the 1986 World Cup was the best individual performance in a World Cup, I don't think anyone can dispute that, but Messi has had the better club career so far.
It's swings and roundabouts really, it's pretty easy to look at what people don't have but in terms of consistency and being at the top level for such a long period of time Messi probably is the superior player.
We're looking at a World Cup Final and a Copa America Final in 2 years, where chances fall to OTHER players, that is out of his control sadly. The issue is he can't go as a CF because there's no service, and he can't really go as a playmaker because well, the finishing and decision making from players like Di Maria is dreadful.
Messi has been significantly better at the club level, which will easily put him in the GOAT pantheon. The only reason its hard for people to accept this now is because memories of Maradona are based on his legend whereas Messi is being judged on his current form. Look at their career stats and Messi pisses all over Maradona, who never managed more than 21 goals in one year for a Euro club.
He'll be 31 by the next world cup. With a lot of mileage.
Just getting a head start on the excuses.
Just getting a head start on the excuses.
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That's a great myth to be fair
What a load of nonsense
Was only one.....Maradona!"Greatest of all time"
Yes he isn't as good as at Barcelona but at the same time how can he be ? There just isn't (for whatever reasons) the same level of understanding between him and his teammates.
Yes but Maradona and Pele piss all over Messi(Lot's of piss involved so far) in the biggest stage of them all the World Cup. Until Messi has a great World Cup tournament(Although I know @amolbhatia100 disagree with me on this)then it's not as clear as some people make out. Christ even he wins it there's still a debate to be had.
Also don't what you slag off you Americans on here especially on your day of Independence and all that. But it's really your fault for this Greatest Of All Time shite. The rest of the World can't be arsed to play your sports, so instead of thinking 'hey maybe Rounders on steroids isn't really as good as we think it is maybe we should join the rest of the world and play a watch able sport' you decide to try and find out who's the greatest of all time at it, never mind the fact your the only ones who play it (well maybe the odd Canadian as well).
Now this fecking GOAT thing is creeping into every sports discussion.
Nice to see the same nonsensical arguments I have to deal with constantly in basketball have also drifted towards Football. There is 11 players on the pitch no one player can do it alone.
His and your compatriot Maradona was at least as extraordinary a talent, and he pushed club and international teams to the pinnacle of achievement which, without him, wouldn't have won Jack Arthur Alexander Shit. Messi hasn't done that.
Too, we are not "Messi haters" for seeing this, and quit using language from the lexicon of tank fly boss walk jam nitty gritty you're listening to the boy from the big bad city.
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Yo. Like, the feck man?
Let me guess, we're talking about Lebron James right ?
Maradona was far better than Messi and Best was ....the Best 
I was joking.
But when ever I see a GOAT debate it always tends to start from a American perspective. It's always mentions Jordan, Lebron James , Woods, Manning Brothers, Gretzky and so on. Sports that are almost completely played in the US and also the GOAT seems(To me anyway) to be talked about a lot more in US Sports than any other.
Although again I was mostly joking.
Not so much really. Maradona won 1 world cup by cheating, which he has repeatedly admitted to since, and prior to that got himself sent off against Brazil in 82. Proper Suarez stuff.
Messi came within a hair of winning the WC last year, and when you factor in club performances, which lets face it are a bulk of a footballer's career, Messi has done much better. In fact, you could cut Messi's club career stats in half and it would still trump Diego's. Not to slight the latter, but Messi has been much better which is being downplayed because people are smitten by the residue of Maradona's legend rather than what he actually did on the pitch.
I've seen enough of Maradona to know he'd have done sweet feck all in that Argentina side tonight. Though he does have voodoo magic that can make players much better than they actually are
Lol I'm with you.
I give Messi a hard time, but it is fair to mention that he is severely hampered by the tactical setup.
You've got a point about the cheating until after cheating Maradona decided to score the greatest individual goal of all time. The legend of Maradona is that he's a former coke head, who was caught hitting his girlfriend(might have been his wife)there's no residue of his legend that anyone wants to remember,let alone use as a positive, it's just that you can't ignore how good he was(I would still add Pele in this list and maybe Best but that might be the rose tinted glasses coming through). Also the stat argument in my opinion isn't a a solid one or at least shouldn't be use to judge if a one player is better than other. Especially when judging players decades apart.
As for Messi coming with a hair of winning the world cup, c'mon even the biggest Messi fan(I'm one of them)know that's really not true, he wasn't in the game at all(Or at least not for his standards). Messi had a ok World Cup nothing more and certainly nothing anywhere near the heights of Pele or Maradona or even Zidane.
Still he's got plenty of time and I do hope he does it.
Agree. The tournament in South Africa with Maradona as manager(how the feck did that ever appear to be a good idea) was just a complete right off.
Messi obviously had the better club career but it's silly to judge Maradona on his goal tally. That's not what he was about at all.
I agree. Was just using it as one of the main disparities between the two to illustrate that Messi has done very well in that regard.
these discussions always come down to who achieved more.
But if we talk about pure skill....It has to be Best, Maradona and Messi in that order...
But if we talk about pure skill....It has to be Best, Maradona and Messi in that order...
He plays better for brazil IMO. Not saying he's holding him back, just saying Suarez at pool was better than his Barca season and neymar is better at brazil than Barca. Can't blame Messi for it, he's the main man that everything goes through at barca, they don't have the sort of luxury there.
Tell me when Neymar played better than he did this past season?
You know hating has reached extremes when people are implying Messi is holding his teammates back. Jesus christ.
Nope. Opinions will always vary in football.
It's not unsurprising that he's going to end up without a major trophy. It's rare that you get perfection in any career and he's come mighty close to it, within inches of it. But like I said, you don't get to have it all, and if you do you've got a fair deal of luck on your side.
I read that he scored his penalty. Imagine if he had missed that. Ironic that everyone else missed. FFs Argentina
I read that he scored his penalty. Imagine if he had missed that. Ironic that everyone else missed. FFs Argentina
Said it before in a different way but...
I hope people are soaking in Messi during his playing career because in a few short years it will be over. Sadly for some the obsession with stats or agonising over the differences in performances between Barca and Argentina might mean they miss the bigger picture.....
I hope people are soaking in Messi during his playing career because in a few short years it will be over. Sadly for some the obsession with stats or agonising over the differences in performances between Barca and Argentina might mean they miss the bigger picture.....
Some hilarious posts here, mainly from posters who couldnt wait for Messi not to win Copa so they can write usual boring stuff.
I thought for them Messi winning WC or Copa will be an argument for him maybe being GOAT but even if he had won it they would analyse his performance and conclude he wasnt all that great in the final so he's not as good as Maradona. Even though his club career is miles better than Maradona's ever was.
So he cant win in any case.
I thought for them Messi winning WC or Copa will be an argument for him maybe being GOAT but even if he had won it they would analyse his performance and conclude he wasnt all that great in the final so he's not as good as Maradona. Even though his club career is miles better than Maradona's ever was.
So he cant win in any case.