Did you even watch Barca last season? No way would they've won the Treble again without him.
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
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You think he carried them to a treble?
Considering he is their top scorer, assist leader, main playmaker, then yes, very much so. This isn't a slight on their squad though - Messi is just that good.
No team with Neymar, Suarez and Iniesta is being carried by anyone. He's their best player obviously, but he's playing with some really accomplished players who themseleves are playing good football. Neymar had 39 goals for gods sake, Suarez had 20+ goals and 20+ assists despite not playing the whole season.
Let me ask you this: Did you think Ronaldinho carried Barca back then? That is essentially what Messi is doing, just better.
Nosense at all. It's clear you have something against Messi, or against normal vision
So you think he carried barca to the treble?
We all know he didn't.
What's your definition of carrying a team? From the looks of it, no-one can match your expectations.
Taking not so great team to levels they shouldn't really be.
By halfway through it you mean the semi final and final where they were defensive and on the back foot for much of it?
Why don't you just own up to your agenda and stop trying to kid everyone mate. You'll be gutted if he turns in a good performance on Saturday and wins it, everyone knows that.
I think saying that Messi carries Barca really depends on what your definition of “carrying” is. He’s undoubtedly hugely influential, which is always going to be the case when he’s at the best, although he’s obviously also surrounded by plenty of other world class player.
I’d generally think of a player “carrying” a team being when they’d struggle by a fair margin in comparison to how they’re doing without him. I’m not sure if that would be the case with this current Barca team: even without Messi, they’d still have a superb frontline, and would still score a shitload of goals. But saying that they wouldn’t decline without him would also be wrong, since any team would surely lose out on a lot without Messi.
He arguably does carry them to an extent, although I’d definitely say it’s a lesser extent compared to how crucial he was from, say, 2011-2014. With Suarez and Neymar also there, they’ve now got the strongest front three they’ve had throughout Messi’s prime years at the club.
I’d generally think of a player “carrying” a team being when they’d struggle by a fair margin in comparison to how they’re doing without him. I’m not sure if that would be the case with this current Barca team: even without Messi, they’d still have a superb frontline, and would still score a shitload of goals. But saying that they wouldn’t decline without him would also be wrong, since any team would surely lose out on a lot without Messi.
He arguably does carry them to an extent, although I’d definitely say it’s a lesser extent compared to how crucial he was from, say, 2011-2014. With Suarez and Neymar also there, they’ve now got the strongest front three they’ve had throughout Messi’s prime years at the club.
Pretty much everything always went through Messi at Barca. Messi carried Barca as much as any big team can be carried by a player.
Why's the hate for Messi so strong in you RL?
Did nothing of note for the quarters, semis and the final. They didn't 'park the bus' so I don't see why it can be said they were defensive.
I don't care whether they win the tournament or not. The proof is in the pudding. We all know he hasn't lit up this tournament, the same way he's never really done that for argentina. He's 100 games into his international career and has been the best player in the sport for the past 6 years at least. There's very little that's going to happen from now on that will change what's happened.
What agenda? What's my agenda that you claim I have? Why would I have one? If messi had reached the sort of levels for argentina that he does at barca there wouldn't be an argument but sadly that's not the case so there is one.
Why is pointing out the obvious seen as hate?
so biasedAlso this concept of "carrying teams" is a fictional creation of the minds of children who probably still believe in fairy tails.
He put a brilliant chance on a plate in the semi final. If you think he didn't contribute in the quarter final you didn't watch it. And what he did in the semi final the other night was light the tournament up.
Everyone can see through your agenda, "the obvious", the obvious that really only you see.
"Biased" obvious, yeah.
So it's time for some myth busting.
This is an unbiased caftards view of Messi's performances in the second half of the tournament.
Worth pointing out that although it wasn't part of the "last three knockout games" the match against Switzerland was the half way point which was sandwiched by three group stage matches and three knockout matches on either side and in that Messi was the man of the match.
Let's have a look at the quarter finals against Belgium then. One of the games Messi was so bad in it was as if the Argentina team had a passenger in their ranks who seemed to be on a holiday. Yes, that bad.
What surprises me is
a) what BBC thought of that:
Something needs to be done about how far off BBC are when Messi was actually holidaying when this match was played.
B) this video. It seems to show Messi playing very differently to that description earlier. Also seen playing the pass of the tournament.
Anyway I maintain that he wasn't incredible but indeed he had a very good World Cup. If anything my respect for him increased as he was one player who was constantly demanding the ball, constantly orchestrating and taking responsibility. You don't see that in many players. Zidane and ronaldhinio spring to mind. I liked that in them.
This is an unbiased caftards view of Messi's performances in the second half of the tournament.
Worth pointing out that although it wasn't part of the "last three knockout games" the match against Switzerland was the half way point which was sandwiched by three group stage matches and three knockout matches on either side and in that Messi was the man of the match.
Let's have a look at the quarter finals against Belgium then. One of the games Messi was so bad in it was as if the Argentina team had a passenger in their ranks who seemed to be on a holiday. Yes, that bad.
What surprises me is
a) what BBC thought of that:
Something needs to be done about how far off BBC are when Messi was actually holidaying when this match was played.
B) this video. It seems to show Messi playing very differently to that description earlier. Also seen playing the pass of the tournament.
Anyway I maintain that he wasn't incredible but indeed he had a very good World Cup. If anything my respect for him increased as he was one player who was constantly demanding the ball, constantly orchestrating and taking responsibility. You don't see that in many players. Zidane and ronaldhinio spring to mind. I liked that in them.
he was clearly injured, and even so, he managed to score 4 good goals and to assist di maria against the swiss
and as someone pointed out before, maradona gave a great pass to burruchaga and he scored, while messi did the same to palacio and he didnt
we lost against the team that wrecked the local Brazil 7-1 in over time
and messi was the best player for argentina, everyone remembers mascherano, but he did great against the dutchs, against the other teams he was good, but not better than messi
in fact messi was named MOM four games in a row, something no other player ever achieved
with that logic. no player ever, carried no one to nowhere
I think the BBC description of that performance there is a little generous in fairness to @RooneyLegend.
Sure. But things like that, in addition to the actual football that happened, just show up how biased some views are.
Don't you think his presence on the pitch and the attention he commands is what has allowed guys like Neymar and Suarez to flourish? Without Messi teams are doubling up on those guys, with him they simply can't.
It's pretty obvious you have something against him. Your posts are clearly driven by agenda and it's becoming more and more apparent with each one.
Aye man. I wouldn't even bother trying to convince someone who makes statements like "he was our holidaying" as his mind/agenda is obviously already made up. It's clear because he obviously didn't even watch Messi play that Belgium match, yet he made those comments, contrary to reality. What's the point.
it does, that's an absolute fact, and it's why Neymar is able to receive the ball close to goal completely unmarked week in week out. Messi draws defenders in like a magnet, there's no other player in world football that has multiple defenders racing out whenever he receives the ball, it's a huge advantage for his team mates. We see it for Argentina too, just his team mates are much more wasteful.
The fact that Messi is still able to clearly outshine his fantastic teammates is a testament to how outstanding of a player he is. A real leader on the pitch without being vocal.
By his own standards Messi wasn't good at the world cup but his lowest level in a decade still outshines the majority, if not all, other players. That says a lot about the player.
Let me ask one question to all these messi hardcore fans in this thread. Do you guys think Messi for argentina has played at greatest of all time levels?
probably not but is any other player close to him at club level? Nobody dominated the game the way Messi does....
I didn't watch the other all time greats but do you think maradona not winning the European cup is a big issue?
Nice to see you not retract that silly statement too.
They most definitely did over the first half of the season. Messi was pulling them out of trouble week in, week out for a good few months, yet strangely didn't get any credit until about January - guess people only care about goals.
He was immense, and they wouldn't have won the league without him. Cups...maybe, they'd still have had a good chance as any team like Barcelona is going to have in a knockout competition.
when you say that, who are you comparing him with? and how does thad comparison makes you think messi cant be the GOAT?
This thread just goes around in circles....
Too many people think football is played on paper. Suarez struggled for a while, Iniesta's name was mentioned and he was hardly instrumental in their liga or copa del rey success. EVen Neymar for me was playing a poor overall game in spite of continually getting on the score sheet, usually from close range and often as a result of Messi's good work. You can throw in the big names and say 'yeah but look at those world class players theres no way he carries this team', but fact is at Barcelona his big name team mates often haven't done the business and he's stepped up time and time again to dig them out of a hole.
Has he performed for Argentina like the greatest of all time? No, but he has at club level, more than Maradona and with far greater consistency. Gary Neville summed up international football perfectly when he said you need a lot of things to go your way, form, coaching, timing, fitness etc etc, a lot has to fall into place. People can continue to use that as a stick to beat him with, but it's futile really.
Has he performed for Argentina like the greatest of all time? No, but he has at club level, more than Maradona and with far greater consistency. Gary Neville summed up international football perfectly when he said you need a lot of things to go your way, form, coaching, timing, fitness etc etc, a lot has to fall into place. People can continue to use that as a stick to beat him with, but it's futile really.
No. It's relevant how? I think Messi's career has been GOAT levels.
It's a pity we've not moved on from the hardon for international football. European club football is the pinnacle and has been for a while now.
Holland became 3rd in the world cup with one genuine world class player.. James Rodriguez was as productive as he was in 6 games as he almost was the entire season before. The WC is just a moment, it shouldnt tell you more than 50 other games during a season.. On top of that, I seriously doubt that the level at the WC is higher than the UCL for example. Its at a higher stage tho.
In the season under Tito Vilanova Messi carried Barca to the league after Iniesta's form dipped mid-season.
The same Luis Suarez who scored over 30 for Liverpool two years in a row before joining Barcelona? Neymar who has 44 in 65 for Brazil? They were not exactly scrubs before they got baptised by Messi.