Lionel Messi - Performances

RooneyLegend said:
Nope, he performs far below his barca level in an argentina shirt.
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I think he performs the same, just like Aguero does and Di Maria.

The issue is Barcelona play a unique style of football, so when he comes to play for Argentina he drives at players, plays a neat pass, but players like Di Maria or Aguero won't give the ball back.

Argentina have no identity they have individuals, but there is no style of play.
 
RooneyLegend clearly upset at a second consecutive international final for Messi.

And don't kid yourselves, he was their best player at the World Cup and he's been their best player at the Copa thus far.

Haters are squirming
 
He wasn't Argentina's best player in both tournaments? What?
 
RooneyLegend said:
Nope, he performs far below his barca level in an argentina shirt.
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I don't think he has been the best player in the Argentina team. Both in the World Cup (Mascherano for me) and the Copa (can't say he is levels above the rest).

Brilliant player and all, but watching the matches, and then reading/hearing the commentary, I frequently come to the conclusion that I'm not seeing something others are seeing.
 
He's by a decent distance their best player, but people continue to hold him to the ridiculous standards he has set for himself at Barcelona. If he plays under those, he's poor or average while that could be the highest level most of his other teammates would ever reach.
 
Snake Plissken said:
RooneyLegend clearly upset at a second consecutive international final for Messi.

And don't kid yourselves, he was their best player at the World Cup and he's been their best player at the Copa thus far.

Haters are squirming
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Of course he was their best player at the World Cup. Macherano was good at the World Cup but it's ridiculous to suggest he was better than the guy who dictated everything and scored or played a big part in all their goals.
 
He plays better for Barca but thats because Barca style suits him better and has better teammates there. In Argentina he is a victim of poor managers, first he had fecking junkie Maradona and now he has Tata Martino who managed to feck up at Barca. For all the attacking talent they have they play the most boring defensive football where all the attacks are based on individual brilliance of players which means 90% goes through Messi while he gets little bit of help of Pastore. And even for the fact that the system is not there to get the best of Messi he is their best player, but he isnt in that God mode we are used to see in Barca shirt.
 
Lol if Messi hadn't been there we wold have gone home at group stages against bosnia, iran and nigeria for god sake. And to the Penalties against Swiss.

Of course he's our best player.
 
adexkola said:
I don't think he has been the best player in the Argentina team. Both in the World Cup (Mascherano for me) and the Copa (can't say he is levels above the rest).

Brilliant player and all, but watching the matches, and then reading/hearing the commentary, I frequently come to the conclusion that I'm not seeing something others are seeing.
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True, you'd swear he's lit up this tournament or the world cup and that's far from the case.
 
He doesn't play to the same level because Argentina aren't as good a side and typically haven't had coaches as good as those at barca. It's not rocket science.

People are really harsh on him at times though, I mean I was pretty scathing towards him before the word cup but same people take the piss, and some obviously have agendas of their own but that's natural I suppose.
 
TheNewEra said:
I think he performs the same, just like Aguero does and Di Maria.

The issue is Barcelona play a unique style of football, so when he comes to play for Argentina he drives at players, plays a neat pass, but players like Di Maria or Aguero won't give the ball back.

Argentina have no identity they have individuals, but there is no style of play.
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No they don't. Aguero, Messi and Di Maria shouldn't be made excuses for this.
 
Can anybody imagine the sheer pressure and expectation Messi is constantly under? What amazes me is his sheer consistency at the very highest level.

I mean how many (massive) games has he played this season without a minute off?
 
RooneyLegend said:
No they don't. Aguero, Messi and Di Maria shouldn't be made excuses for this.
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I think it's the reasoning behind it really, there's no identity for national teams mostly.

Look at Germany last year, they played together for club level mostly, look at Spain most were Barcelona players during their dominance.

There's an identity there an understanding, players like Messi even for Argentina do what they do for club level, he drives past 1-2-3 players, he releases a pass wide to Di Maria just as he does Neymar. After that? well Di Maria either misses, scores (rarely) or he doesn't pass the ball back to Messi.

It's not that they underperform it's that they don't see the ball in the same areas, the build up play isn't the same and it's how it is.

Same goes for England, good players for club, for country? not so much, so they rely on individual quality.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Of course he was their best player at the World Cup. Macherano was good at the World Cup but it's ridiculous to suggest he was better than the guy who dictated everything and scored or played a big part in all their goals.
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No it's not. In what world is it ridiculous to suggest the guy holding together the defensive play of what was largely a very defensive performance to get them to the final was better than him? I love Messi, and he's apparently been great at the Copa which is great, but he wasn't the best player at last year's World Cup. He actually seemed embarrassed to be given that trophy.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
No it's not. In what world is it ridiculous to suggest the guy holding together the defensive play of what was largely a very defensive performance to get them to the final was better than him? I love Messi, and he's apparently been great at the Copa which is great, but he wasn't the best player at last year's World Cup. He actually seemed embarrassed to be given that trophy.
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he didnt say he was the best player at WC....him and Mascherano were the best players of Argentina. Messi was the matchwinner and Mascherano was the leader at the back.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
he didnt say he was the best player at WC....him and Mascherano were the best players of Argentina. Messi was the matchwinner and Mascherano was the leader at the back.
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Indeed he didn't say he was the best player at the WC, but he clearly said he was better than Mascherano.
 
Which he obviously was. If mascherano held the defence together, Messi was did most things when they were on the ball and attacked. He was embarrassed because his team lost and he looked like upset child, like sportsman do when they lose finals.
 
the Mascherano thing is embarrassing, he was brilliant in the semi final, really outstanding, but he hardly got a mention until then. I'm not saying he didn't play really well but the way the usual suspects are sneakily attempting to use mascherano in the discussion in the same way people did with Xavi and iniestas for years is tragic. It certainly suited Mascherano that Argentina were quite negative in the knock out games that's for sure, but only one man carried the torch for Argentina up front and it wasn't Mascherano, nor was it di Maria, aguero or higuain.

I even saw someone proclaim di Maria and pastors were THE standout players last night. If you think that then fair enough but we obviously see football very differently.
 
Messi wasn't Argentina's best player in the WC and he also didn't show his best form in the WC apart from against Switzerland. In the Copa however especially in the last two games he has been much closer to his best form and has been their best player.
 
to think that messi could be for Argentina as good as for barcelona is absolutely ridiculous

if barcelona faces any national team he will beat them for over 4 goals

the advantage of barcelona is so obvious: it's a team that play together almost 60 games a year, it's a selection of the best players in the world
meanwhile, argentina doesnt play 60 games together in 5 years, and it's only a selection of the best argentinian players

of course messi will play better with better partners with whom he is used to play twice a week and practice three times a week
 
Marcosdeto said:
to think that messi could be for Argentina as good as for barcelona is absolutely ridiculous

if barcelona faces any national team he will beat them for over 4 goals

the advantage of barcelona is so obvious: it's a team that play together almost 60 games a year, it's a selection of the best players in the world
meanwhile, argentina doesnt play 60 games together in 5 years, and it's only a selection of the best argentinian players

of course messi will play better with better partners with whom he is used to play twice a week and practice three times a week
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Every player faces that challenge when playing for the NT and some still preform at the level expected of them e.g. Maradona in 86.
 
Marcosdeto said:
to think that messi could be for Argentina as good as for barcelona is absolutely ridiculous

if barcelona faces any national team he will beat them for over 4 goals

the advantage of barcelona is so obvious: it's a team that play together almost 60 games a year, it's a selection of the best players in the world
meanwhile, argentina doesnt play 60 games together in 5 years, and it's only a selection of the best argentinian players

of course messi will play better with better partners with whom he is used to play twice a week and practice three times a week
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It's not that, for me. It's that the team has been imbalanced for most part. Not helped by managers like Maradona and now Martino. Same reason why Scholes wasn't Scholes for England, except Messi was Messi for Argentina, but just not on God mode all the time, or at least as much end product, because the TEAM does matter. No player performs in isolation despite all the myths one likes to create.
 
Aldo said:
Every player faces that challenge when playing for the NT and some still preform at the level expected of them e.g. Maradona in 86.
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maradona played excellent for argentina but he is an exception
amolbhatia100 said:
Klose too, in every world cup ever.
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klose plays with players from his same team, messi only plays with mascherano, the rest come from all over the world
 
Marcosdeto said:
klose plays with players from his same team, messi only plays with mascherano, the rest come from all over the world
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I wasn't being serious Marcos. The point is that the team matters more than people think.
 
Its obvious he won't play the same, it only takes one minute of thinking to understand how important it is to share a dressing room everyday, train everyday with an idea developed through the last decade.
Aldo said:
Every player faces that challenge when playing for the NT and some still preform at the level expected of them e.g. Maradona in 86.
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Don't know if you know what I'm about to tell you: No one expected Maradona to win the 86 world cup just like everyone expected Messi's 2010 and 2014. Maradona came from a poor transition at Barcelona and moved to Napoles.
Maradona himself said it "Messi is just 24, I exploded with 26 at the WC..."



Minute 10:25
 
Marcosdeto said:
to think that messi could be for Argentina as good as for barcelona is absolutely ridiculous

if barcelona faces any national team he will beat them for over 4 goals

the advantage of barcelona is so obvious: it's a team that play together almost 60 games a year, it's a selection of the best players in the world
meanwhile, argentina doesnt play 60 games together in 5 years, and it's only a selection of the best argentinian players

of course messi will play better with better partners with whom he is used to play twice a week and practice three times a week
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This point is overlooked by most critics, IMHO. Furthermore, I've always believed if Leo, Di Maria & Kun were able to play more together they could be a fantastic attacking trio but they simply lack the rhythm that comes from sufficient time together
 
IFC 1905 said:
Its obvious he won't play the same, it only takes one minute of thinking to understand how important it is to share a dressing room everyday, train everyday with an idea developed through the last decade.



Don't know if you know what I'm about to tell you: No one expected Maradona to win the 86 world cup just like everyone expected Messi's 2010 and 2014. Maradona came from a poor transition at Barcelona and moved to Napoles.
Maradona himself said it "Messi is just 24, I exploded with 26 at the WC..."



Minute 10:25
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i remember how mad we were against bilardo and his team, non of us ever thought that we stand a chance in that world cup

in fact we qualified in the last 10 minutes against peru in buenos aires
 
I think the issue with Messi for Argentina is that he underwhelms rather than underperforms, if that makes sense. People watch him expecting the same Messi you see at Barcelona which is not really possible.
 
FCBarca said:
This point is overlooked by most critics, IMHO. Furthermore, I've always believed if Leo, Di Maria & Kun were able to play more together they could be a fantastic attacking trio but they simply lack the rhythm that comes from sufficient time together
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but is so obvious. Messi doesnt play in argentina with a player that takes the part of Dany Alves, who knows with his eyes closed, were lio is going to be in the next fraction of a second,
he doesnt play with neymar or suarez that move in a way that will distract defenders from him

you can achieve that only after playing every week and practicing a lot
 
Marcosdeto said:
Messi doesnt play in argentina with a player that takes the part of Dany Alves, who knows with his eyes closed, were lio is going to be in the next fraction of a second
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Speaking of, people like to talk about the chemistry and understanding between Xavi and Iniesta, but never mention Alves and Messi. They are completely overlooked IMO. Not seen any team with a connection like theirs on the right flank.
 
BobbyManc said:
I think the issue with Messi for Argentina is that he underwhelms rather than underperforms, if that makes sense. People watch him expecting the same Messi you see at Barcelona which is not really possible.
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yep
 
DesiBD said:
Speaking of, people like to talk about the chemistry and understanding between Xavi and Iniesta, but never mention Alves and Messi. They are completely overlooked IMO. Not seen any team with a connection like theirs on the right flank.
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Absolutely and why Dani is a club legend, IMO. Overlooked as well is how much of a monster talent Alves was at Sevilla - I can't recall a defender that was more imposing than him at both ends of the pitch
 
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