Lionel Messi - Performances

Hernandez - BFA said:
I didn't realise it was debatable that Messi is Barca's greatest player.
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It's a crazy notion in my opinion. Of course he is.

I'm 30, and have watched football since I can remember. I've seen players like Zidane, Ronaldino, Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Henry, Figo, Giggs etc etc but Lionel Messi is the best player I've ever seen.

If there is to be any player who surpasses Lionel Messi in my lifetime, he'd have to be a heck of a player. And I mean that. He'd have to be a fire breathing supernatural phenomenon who leaves trails of literal dust everywhere he runs. Or bloody Captain Tsubasa himself.
 
B20 said:
Was just watching this touch from ronaldinho this morning:


Now, I have no doubt that Messi could do the same, probably better as well. But he would never do it with such effortless grace. Ronaldinho barely lifts his toe off the ground to kill that ball. I imagine messi would take somewhat more functional touch.

Ronaldinho made the difficult look sublimely easy and unique. Messi makes it look like the difficult was never really that difficult in the first place and and just standardfare for a decent footballer.
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Yeah that's amazing, just inredible. But Messi's control is up there for me. I think he has the best ball control. He literally dribbles while controlling. It's like an aimed control.

 
Trizy said:
It's between him and Ronaldo the past 8 years and who ever ends up winning that battle over all (Messi being younger probably will) will go down as the GOAT. Football is at a level now where even the best strikers can't score every game and often not for a long periods yet both these lunatics score hattricks once a month.
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That's a myth though as shown by the average goals per game ratios and top scorer totals that fell over time from the 1950s through to the 1980s (as defences became more organised and the game became more negative) then steadied for 10-20 years (as rule changes redressed the balance to positive football), before rebounding in the last 5-10 years (as the game has become more attacking and the top clubs have become more powerful). That's acknowledging that Messi and Ronaldo's figures are exceptional in any era.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Yeah that's amazing, just inredible. But Messi's control is up there for me. I think he has the best ball control. He literally dribbles while controlling. It's like an aimed control.

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He's no Luke Shaw though.
 
It's not completely unheard of. Puskas, Eusebio , herd muller and of course pele all scored at a tremendous rate. I'm sure there were others too.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Messi is more effective but Ronaldinho does it with more flair and imagination. I remember he once scored a freekick with a low ball passing through the wall below the feet of jumping defenders, now this is very definition of imagination, nobody would be able to come up with these kinds of stuffs before, and he just keep trying new amazing tricks every now and then back in his time.

And no don't get me wrong, Messi is clearly better. But Ronaldhino is very special in his own right, and more eye catching and impressive the way he did it, that's all.
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something like this?:

 
Marcosdeto said:
something like this?:

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Messi has short hair there so I'm assuming this goal happened after RedRonaldo indicated that Ronaldinho did it.

Though I do get your point - Ronaldo and Xabi Alonso are two others off the top of my head that have scored free kicks like that.
 
i was being facetious, i dont think redronaldo was saying that Ronaldinho was the first player ever to take a free kick that way, i just happened to remember one goal that messi scored against uruguay in wich he did exactly that
 
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If I wanted to play a match with my buddies in the neighborhood I'd choose Ronaldinho but if it's about playing in a tournament or a league, I'd choose Messi.
 
JR10 said:
Has Maradona ever won the ECL?
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Nope. Knocked out first round by Real Madrid and then by Spartak Moscow in the second round a couple years later.
 
JR10 said:
So he has played in the Champions League?
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In the European cup, completely different back in those days though. Was straight knock outs and only the Champions of the domestic leagues were included. He probably only played about 6 games in total. He won the UEFA Cup though.
 
Lay said:
In the European cup, completely different back in those days though. Was straight knock outs and only the Champions of the domestic leagues were included. He probably only played about 6 games in total. He won the UEFA Cup though.
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I am having a mini arguemeant on Messi vs Diego and he said Messi hasn't won the world cup and I said well, has Diego even played in the ECL. Is that wrong?
 
JR10 said:
I am having a mini arguemeant on Messi vs Diego and he said Messi hasn't won the world cup and I said well, has Diego even played in the ECL. Is that wrong?
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Technically he hasn't played in the Champions League as that was formed in 1992. He has played in the European Cup which was the 'Champions League' before the reformat in 1992.
 



Every time I get hyped with Messi I watch that and remember how good Maradona was.

And also this video which shows how entertaining he was




He was just the most tecnical player ever.
 
I never got why Ronaldinho was bummed for scoring that free kick under the wall, he did plenty of much more amazing things in his career and yet people still remember what in essence is just a daisy cutter and a shit wall.
 
Well back then Ronaldinho always did something unexpected every other week, scoring pass the wall was just one of them I suddenly remember, that doesn't mean others player couldn't it though, especially thereafter. I think I have praised highly enough of how great Messi is here, point being Ronaldinho often did things in a way that has impressed me more, purely on fans perspective ie. more entertainment value.
 
JR10 said:
I am having a mini arguemeant on Messi vs Diego and he said Messi hasn't won the world cup and I said well, has Diego even played in the ECL. Is that wrong?
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There's no argument that Messi has better club career than Maradona, adding to that the consistency, end-products and self discipline, I would not be surprise if people prefer Messi over Maradona. But my previous point being WC is the one trophy Messi would die for, winning it would be the career highlight of any players.

What Maradobna achieved isn't merely winning trophies.. He did it in a way no other players could, and could only dream of. You may think CL is same standard of WC, but fact is WC is watched by thousand of millions all over the world, the meaning of the event just isn't the same. It is held once every four years, and players play for national pride and name on the history. It's like Olympics for athletics, it's just different.
 
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RedRonaldo said:
There's no argument that Messi has better club career than Maradona, adding to that the consistency, end-products and self discipline, I would not be surprise if people prefer Messi over Maradona. But my previous point being WC is the one trophy Messi would die for, winning it would be the career highlight of any players.

What Maradobna achieved isn't merely winning trophies.. He did it in a way no other players could, and could only dream of. You may think CL is same standard of WC, but fact is WC is watched by thousand of millions all over the world, the meaning of the event just isn't the same. It is held once every four years, and players play for national pride and name on the history. It's like Olympics for athletics, it's just different.
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This doesn't make it a better competition. It means more people watch it, and so what?
 
RedRonaldo said:
There's no argument that Messi has better club career than Maradona, adding to that the consistency, end-products and self discipline, I would not be surprise if people prefer Messi over Maradona. But my previous point being WC is the one trophy Messi would die for, winning it would be the career highlight of any players.

What Maradobna achieved isn't merely winning trophies.. He did it in a way no other players could, and could only dream of. You may think CL is same standard of WC, but fact is WC is watched by thousand of millions all over the world, the meaning of the event just isn't the same. It is held once every four years, and players play for national pride and name on the history. It's like Olympics for athletics, it's just different.
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This sounds like romanticism really. Di Stefano winning 5 European Cups is also something maradona could only dream of doing.
 
And it's not about thinking it's the same standard. The cL is actually now of a higher standard than the World Cup. Calling the World Cup the Olympics of football simply doesn't make sense anymore. It's like football has two Olympics now, and club football is on a much more even key than before.
 
The CL nowadays is merely a bye for the huge clubs to the semifinals. It may be of a higher quality, but I'm not under any delusion as to where the source of that higher quality comes from.
 
adexkola said:
The CL nowadays is merely a bye for the huge clubs to the semifinals. It may be of a higher quality, but I'm not under any delusion as to where the source of that higher quality comes from.
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Yup. It's so easy for them that so many have won it back to back of late as opposed to the past.
 
Marcosdeto said:
unlike the world cup were oceania, africa and asia

wait
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U wut m8?

What country has had a relative bye to the latter stages of it's continental competition and the World Cup? It's not a given. And that is because national teams can't just poach talent from their neighbors. It's because national teams are hastily cobbled from a selection of players that ply their club trade in different clubs across the world. There is a reduction in quality, yes, but things become much more competitive. Africa and Oceania and Asia are behind the curve but that is a function of nonexistent structures that should be identifying talent and nurturing them, as there exists in Europe and the Americas. Still, there are enough contenders to make it interesting, and a uniquely different challenge to club football.
 
adexkola said:
U wut m8?

What country has had a relative bye to the latter stages of it's continental competition and the World Cup? It's not a given. And that is because national teams can't just poach talent from their neighbors. It's because national teams are hastily cobbled from a selection of players that ply their club trade in different clubs across the world. There is a reduction in quality, yes, but things become much more competitive. Africa and Oceania and Asia are behind the curve but that is a function of nonexistent structures that should be identifying talent and nurturing them, as there exists in Europe and the Americas. Still, there are enough contenders to make it interesting, and a uniquely different challenge to club football.
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Precisely where there's a fair degree of luck involved as well.
 
I don't know why it's argument either. League football, champions league and the World Cup are all tournaments that are great in their own way. I'm not sure why one is put down to big up another.
 
IFC 1905 said:



Every time I get hyped with Messi I watch that and remember how good Maradona was.

And also this video which shows how entertaining he was




He was just the most tecnical player ever.
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Pick any Messi highlight reel and it'll be better than the ones you posted.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Precisely where there's a fair degree of luck involved as well.
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I agree there is luck with regards to success, being stuck with a hopelessly useless national team... but I would like to think the paucity of George Best's exploits at national level aren't held against him.

And I agree with your last point. Comparison is useless. I just look for excellence in all spheres.
 
adexkola said:
U wut m8?

What country has had a relative bye to the latter stages of it's continental competition and the World Cup? It's not a given. And that is because national teams can't just poach talent from their neighbors. It's because national teams are hastily cobbled from a selection of players that ply their club trade in different clubs across the world. There is a reduction in quality, yes, but things become much more competitive. Africa and Oceania and Asia are behind the curve but that is a function of nonexistent structures that should be identifying talent and nurturing them, as there exists in Europe and the Americas. Still, there are enough contenders to make it interesting, and a uniquely different challenge to club football.
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i was replying to this

"where the source of that higher quality comes from"

and it's not a bye for the huge clubs to the semifinals

not long ago the semis were played by chelsea, us, barcelona and arsenal

few years ago, real madrid had the quarter final curse

teams that have won it four or more times have dissapeared in the last decade from the champions league, like liverpool, milan, ajax
 
adexkola said:
I agree there is luck with regards to success, being stuck with a hopelessly useless national team... but I would like to think the paucity of George Best's exploits at national level aren't held against him.

And I agree with your last point. Comparison is useless. I just look for excellence in all spheres.
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It shouldn't.

I enjoy it all in different ways. The league is your week in week out wonderful scramble. The cl is the highest standard of quality, and the World Cup is one big party.
 
Marcosdeto said:
i was replying to this

"where the source of that higher quality comes from"

and it's not a bye for the huge clubs to the semifinals

not long ago the semis were played by chelsea, us, barcelona and arsenal

few years ago, real madrid had the quarter final curse

teams that have won it four or more times have dissapeared in the last decade from the champions league, like liverpool, milan, ajax
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It's not an absolute bye, but we have threads saying Guardiola has been underwhelming since his tenure at Bayern, and that Madrid have massively underachieved since Ronaldo joined them. On the other hand I recall APOEL Nicosia getting plaudits from all corners for making it to the last 8 of the Champions League. So there is some sort of expectation for the big clubs of the day to make it to the latter stages, beyond which it can be a crapshoot.
 
adexkola said:
It's not an absolute bye, but we have threads saying Guardiola has been underwhelming since his tenure at Bayern, and that Madrid have massively underachieved since Ronaldo joined them. On the other hand I recall APOEL Nicosia getting plaudits from all corners for making it to the last 8 of the Champions League. So there is some sort of expectation for the big clubs of the day to make it to the latter stages, beyond which it can be a crapshoot.
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contenders for a champions league are lot more than contenders for the world cup
one is held every year, the other one every four
the fact that barcelona did this good during the last year, is not because the CL is easy, is because he made it easy for barcelona
 
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