He has shown on multiple occasions that he's capable of it.
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
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He obviously cared about results and played to create chances, score goals, and move his team forward(especially in the massive games when he'd come really deep). He might not have done any research, in truth he didn't need to as his dribbling was just that good that regardless of how good defenders were, they got fooled more times than not. It was great fun, but the spirit of samba doesn't include not caring about the result, its about playing and winning right way.
That's not how I view it, honestly. There's no place for thinking about winning or losing or the result, you play the right way, that attacking entertaining football. If you win, fine, if you don't, doesn't matter.
I don't agree with that. I'm sure ronaldhinio wanted and tried to win every match he played. It's just that he liked doing playing in a fun way rather than a systemic, functional way.
What kind of defender is looking at a player's eyes instead of the ball and body shape?! Giving the 'eyes' is more about altering your body shape than looking somewhere else.
He must be feeling like a leading mathematician solving simple algebraic equations.Precisely. Dinho would change his body shape, looking in a different direction, and then pass it in another. Passes with disguise are just generally more difficult to stop than ones that don't have any. We call it giving the eyes but it obviously doesn't just include just looking a different direction. All of that contributes to creating space to pass the ball, even if someone is directly in front of him.
This is just romantic revisionism. It happened all the time that he'd receive the ball, threaten his man with doing something by tripping a bit with the ball, then when everyone else was in position defensively, he'd have to do a lame backpass because the opportunity came and went while he dwelled on the ball. Annoying really as he was such a master of direct and one-touch football when he put his mind to it.
And he'd absolutely perform tricks for the camera, that was part of his charm.
"almost always ended in something special" - maybe on youtube.
He was a genius, but often a ponderous one. In this he had more in common with the likes of Rivaldo than with the likes of Zidane and Messi.
I think you don't know what economic means. Messi is more economic because he hardly ever slows down play and dwell on the ball when he doesn't need to. He is far more likely to just give a quick simple pass and then move into a new position than stop and look to see if maybe he can do something special here.
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Maybe you're not talking about the same player I am. Dinho's pauses had an effect, hence he did them. Would he sometimes pass the ball back? Yes, if the defender doesn't bite the bait that's what's going to happen. The thing is though, after he beat a player out wide after being ponderous as you put it, it would have a domino effect with those defenders that have returned to their positions, having to shift in order to cover him as he's accelerating.
Direct one touch play is a space thing, when there's no space, it isn't really possible. When there was space, he'd do it, and that to great effect. Him slowing down play means that would be difficult at that moment, and in that moment beating a man from a standstill was far more productive.
Messi does sometimes slow down the play to set the domino effect I mentioned in motion. Take vs atletico in the first league game he got the ball, slowed down a lot and then proceeded to make a mockery of his marker, as the defenders had to move to pick him up, he then created openings. Remember what he did to scholes from basically a standstill all those years ago? Almost ended up in a goal.
Dinho only slowed the game down out wide, whenever he was centrally he did things quickly, unless he needed trickery to get out of a tight spot. Honestly, doubting dinho's football brain is ridiculous, as he's one of the biggest geniuses to play the game. He had an incredible sense of what to do and when.
So he slowed down play plenty, given how often he was wide.
I don't doubt his brain as such, I doubt his mental discipline. He was often a self-indulgent player. I don't need to edit out all the times he was less than stellar to make sense of his football intelligence.
Hanging on the to ball and doing a backpass being labelled the best possible option is some serious skewering of how football works to suit the player here. The best option in such a case is simply to release it quickly to someone in more space to do something with the ball. You know, like Messi played you in the first CL final.
This revision of a Ronaldinho who always took the best option is just untrue. There is no way around it. He was capable of brilliant options - He also often dithered.
Was at the Atletico V Barcelona game, Messi was very good on the night could have had a hat trick.
He looks like he isn't even trying yet destroys teams, every time Neymar or Messi got the ball they tried to pull them down to stop them running.
Really good to see such a brilliant player live, I'm not a spanish speaker but in the stadium you heard murmurs of "Messi" being mentioned, Barcelona fans were scattered across the stadium too and when he scored they still chanted Messi even with angry Atletico fans surrounding.
He looks like he isn't even trying yet destroys teams, every time Neymar or Messi got the ball they tried to pull them down to stop them running.
Really good to see such a brilliant player live, I'm not a spanish speaker but in the stadium you heard murmurs of "Messi" being mentioned, Barcelona fans were scattered across the stadium too and when he scored they still chanted Messi even with angry Atletico fans surrounding.
Like you said there is the good and very misleading way of doing those passes (like Ronaldinho masters them) and sometimes you have some really pointless no look passes where you wonder why the passer even bothered to do them like that.
that's the vibe I get aswell. imagine if he did have ronaldo's narcissism. that front 3 are all playing for each other and happily setting each other up
The Ballon D'Or is not even gonna be a contest and rightfully so. A dominant season for Messi and Barca.
Dinho was much more flashy but Messi is just far superior. Messi can beat some of the best defenders just with a change of pace, it's unbelievable, he doesn't really need to over-do anything due to the sheer ability he possesses. His sense of gravity and ball control are unmatched and although Dinho was a freak of nature at times, Messi is just much more complete, less flashy, but more productive and lethal.
Came across this video, shows that he's just from a different planet when at his best.
Came across this video, shows that he's just from a different planet when at his best.
Do Barca fans now consider Messi to be their best ever player?
He would have to be, Only Cryuff and Kubala could really come close.
^^ Contains some amazing collection in that video. Nice!
It is hard to say, from august 2004 to may 2008, I would say pretty good player that if he taps his potential, we may see something truly special. messi during those 4 years, was probably still better than 80% of players playing past and present. Now August 2008 - present, if we look at a level of performances from this guy and the success he has brought to FC Barca, in terms of the physical demand, the travelling he has been on all these years where he was once injury prone between 2004-08, to the level of consistency not just scoring goals, but his influence on this barca team has a team not just a goalscorer creating scoring, his impact on the team overall, messi has raised the level of Barcelona to almost cheat mode in the way he plays the game
If we look at his 7 seasons 2008-15
2008-09 season - goals 38
2009-10 season - goals 47
2010-11 season - goals 53
2011-12 season - goals 73
2012-13 season - goals 60
2013-14 season - goals 41
2014-15 season - goals 54 and he will score more when the season is over
Many have said messi has not been quiet at it between 2012-14, barca were declining with change of managers, but messi still scored 101 goals in 2 seasons of that change of managers tactics etc. Our club has been rewarding our forwards with performances which they could barely hit 20 a season, even 20 in 2 seasons, let alone the stats messi has hit. On messi's worst seasons in terms of the level of performances of the 2012/13 and 2013/14 season, he still blows away nearly all the competition with only ronaldo his only rival. These numbers are insane, between 2008-12 his level of performances he would break his own record for 4 straight seasons in a row, and his worst season is 41 goals between 2008- present. Christ we used to say ronaldo in 08 was doing something special, these records messi is defining the very standards of individual performances, and what he has done for his own club.
So I would say Messi could very well be Barca's greatest every player, possibly a winner of 4 champions league's being the major player of 3 of the 4 he has won, since he was a kid when he won his first European cup, that was the ronaldinho era, messi played his part but that was Ronnie's time. And he could very well define barcelona's history of a club was once a meek 1 time European cup winner back in 2002, compared to Real Madrid's 9 european cups, the 2 clubs were miles apart back then. Barca could now break into the elite group of champions league winners of 5, cutting down Real Madrid's record where it was once 9-1 to real Madrid back in 2002, with it possibly being 10-5 to real, a huge turn around for Barcelona. Barcelona were always a huge club, but underachieved, to now being a real successful European club. We are in that similar state to Barca of about 2002, preaching to be a huge club, but having a weak European cup record of a meh 3. So yes, messi has defined Barcelona's european record, and that is a true great of club football, and perhaps Barcelona's greatest ever player
I didn't realise it was debatable that Messi is Barca's greatest player.
He's top four or five of all time (if you're being picky, that is) and got to that status by playing for the one club.
Safe to say "yes", I think.
Safe to say "yes", I think.
They'd be crazy not to, He is the greatest ever player in a European league...who else comes close in club football?
What sets him apart from ronaldinho, hunger and desire to keep going. Ronnie was done after 2 seasons for Barcelona, of 2004-06, when 2006/07 kicked in ronaldinho felt like that player was still in Paris,, and then messi started to take the ball and run with it. I also look at Messi holy Jesus, always striving to not only be the best on his own, but making Barcelona better and better has a team, and the players around him.
What I have loved from messi this season, he has brought suarez and neymar under his wing, almost like he is the Argentinian sensei, he has brought the best out of suarez and neymar and the 3 look devestating, and their impact is not has devastating has messi at his best of 08-12, but devastating enough that is a world beating attack. Messi knows he cannot be here forever, and he cannot keep up this level he has done between 2008-15, he knows his body will slow down sooner or later, and he wont be racking up goals of 40 50 60 a season, so why not see guys like neymar thrive and carry the ball where messi will give to neymar and co. I look at ronaldo, at 30 going on 31, he still hogging the spotlight and not looking to pass the torch and teach the new forwards, its all me me me like he still thinks he is the best, never giving back to his team mates and seeing them been giving the torch, which was possibly the plan on why bale was bought, when messi is teaching and passing the torch to the next generation. I also do not think Barcelona want to be relying on messi in his 30's, and messi also feels the same way he does not want to be putting his body on the line in his 30's carrying Barca's attack, so this whole deal makes so much sense. You can see neymar being that player that is passed the torch from messi, funny how its an Argentinian passing the torch a Brazilian has Barca's next special player.
And that is what defines a world great is hunger, desire, and building a football dynasty that will be remembered for decades and the cherry on the cake, messi looking to pass the torch to the next generation has messi hits his 30's. Messi will be remembered has possibly the greatest club player in the history of the game, he has no equal.
He is the best I think.
Hope he wins at least five champions league trophies, just like di stefano did with real Madrid
Hope he wins at least five champions league trophies, just like di stefano did with real Madrid
He's arguably the best ever player, and thus would also be Barcelona's best ever player by default.
Yeah, he's talked about being possibly the best ever and he wouldn't be considered the best Barca player ever ?
I can safely say he's by far the best player I have ever watched. He's someone else, he's something else.
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No doubt Messi is better player but Ronaldinho at his peak does things no one else could possibly imagine.
Messi does the same things but more effectively, with less effort, with more certainty and better consistency.
Messi is more effective but Ronaldinho does it with more flair and imagination. I remember he once scored a freekick with a low ball passing through the wall below the feet of jumping defenders, now this is very definition of imagination, nobody would be able to come up with these kinds of stuffs before, and he just keep trying new amazing tricks every now and then back in his time.
And no don't get me wrong, Messi is clearly better. But Ronaldhino is very special in his own right, and more eye catching and impressive the way he did it, that's all.
I agree that he did it with more flair. I loved watching the guy. A real delight. My point is that Messi actually does do the same things but with lesser fuss and effort. To do what Messi does with one drop of a shoulder, ronaldhinio would probably do a bunch of tricks.
I understand that. Messi is purely inch perfect execution in everything he does, whereas Ronaldinho its more about "happy football" and "capturing your imagination" with sublime skills/technique. If I were the manager it will be Messi>Ronaldinho every time. But as a football fan, I would love watching Ronaldinho more than any other player. At one stage I even thought he could challenge Pele and Maradona for POAT, it's such a pity he didn't have the consistency to last his top game longer...
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Was just watching this touch from ronaldinho this morning:
Now, I have no doubt that Messi could do the same, probably better as well. But he would never do it with such effortless grace. Ronaldinho barely lifts his toe off the ground to kill that ball. I imagine messi would take somewhat more functional touch.
Ronaldinho made the difficult look sublimely easy and unique. Messi makes it look like the difficult was never really that difficult in the first place and and just standardfare for a decent footballer.
Now, I have no doubt that Messi could do the same, probably better as well. But he would never do it with such effortless grace. Ronaldinho barely lifts his toe off the ground to kill that ball. I imagine messi would take somewhat more functional touch.
Ronaldinho made the difficult look sublimely easy and unique. Messi makes it look like the difficult was never really that difficult in the first place and and just standardfare for a decent footballer.
It's between him and Ronaldo the past 8 years and who ever ends up winning that battle over all (Messi being younger probably will) will go down as the GOAT. Football is at a level now where even the best strikers can't score every game and often not for a long periods yet both these lunatics score hattricks once a month.
Just realised he's going for number 4 next month. 5 is a real possibility, incredible really.
look at these lionel messi stats of 2008-15
2008-09 season - goals 38
2009-10 season - goals 47
2010-11 season - goals 53
2011-12 season - goals 73
2012-13 season - goals 60
2013-14 season - goals 41
2014-15 season - goals 54 and he will score more when the season is over
between 2008-12 he broke his own goal-scoring record 4 times in a row, with his worst season for goals scored being at a meek 41 goals LOL, which was ronaldo's best season for united in 2008 on 42 goals.
I do not think there is a debate, before messi came around barcelona were 9-2 behind real madrid in European cups, since 2008 when messi started to influence this barca team and if he wins his 4th european cup, barcelona will have cut the gap to 10-5 to real madrid, a huge turn around for Barcelona where they were once on 2 european cups to 5. That says to me Messi defiantly is Barca's greatest, and he will have sealed that place if they can win it next month. If Barca get to 5, that puts them in that elite group of champions league winners, with messi being the major piece behind that success
He's already won that battle.
Ok, some weird stuff from Japan.