7 out of the last 11 league titles is SAF's style domination.
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
5 from the last 7 actually.
Ronaldo fanboi alert
I suspect he has taken some PEDs as well. How would you feel if in 8 years you found out the two greatest players in the game were cheating? It's happened before.
It has but it doesn't mean he's taken them.
Are you basing this on any evidence?
i've just banned Americano from this thread for 7 days
he is wuming and we all know it
he is wuming and we all know it
Good stuff.
I honestly don't associate Messi with entertainment. I associate him with sheer ability to do the most things that majority of footballers aren't capable of. Dinho on the other hand, like @kouroux said, is a footballer who even a casual watcher of the game will appreciate. He brought so much joy to the watchers, the kind that Messi simply isn't capable of. Messi is superior to Dinho in most attributes, but there are certain ones Messi can't even imagine doing that Dinho would. Of course that's not a slight on Messi, it's just one of the few things Dinho is comfortably superior on to every footballer there ever was.
Really? There's plenty of footage on the previous page which I can watch all day long.
Like this.
Anyway, it is quite a subjective thing. Dinho was surely one of the greatest entertainers of his generation while doing it at a highest level, as well.
Sometimes I wonder, had he not declined like he did and stayed at Barca a few more years at the top, imagine him and Leo enjoying with their peaks coinciding!
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Does thread banned mean he can't see the thread or he cannot contribute in the thread?
Does thread banned mean he can't see the thread or he cannot contribute in the thread?
i think he cant post, but he can read
If I have to pick'em in my team (like in the famous Adidas old ad)...If I wanna have fun I'd pick Dinho. If I wanna win I'd pick Messi
It's a bit of a misconception that he can't do things someone like Dinho did. He just doesn't choose to, when he obviously has the talent to do all of that. One of his biggest assets is his unreal decision making, and he always makes the decision that is best for the team. It could be a 5 yard pass or a 40 yard dribble past 4 defenders. Messi does what needs to be done.
League winning goal from a better view:
Pretty much this. Although to be fair, you have a good chance of winning picking 'Dinho too.
League winning goal from a better view:
When you see the way he manipulates and shifts the ball it almost makes me wonder if he see's the game in slow motion.
The point that casual viewers who don't give a toss about football could enjoy Dinho too doesn't hold much weight, for me.
Yes, Ronaldinho did some outlandish things, stuff that looked like it was from a comic book drawn by a 10 year old or something... but the subtle things Messi pulls off at super human speeds, and the how he just seems to be several moves ahead of others, both in terms of his individual movement and his teamwork, means that he's just as mesmerising to watch. That, and he has plenty of in your face oh-my-God-I-can't-believe-he-just-did-that moves that you don't have to be a football connoisseur to get.
Yes, Ronaldinho did some outlandish things, stuff that looked like it was from a comic book drawn by a 10 year old or something... but the subtle things Messi pulls off at super human speeds, and the how he just seems to be several moves ahead of others, both in terms of his individual movement and his teamwork, means that he's just as mesmerising to watch. That, and he has plenty of in your face oh-my-God-I-can't-believe-he-just-did-that moves that you don't have to be a football connoisseur to get.
Dinho's imagination was much bigger than Messi's hence people say he was more entertaining. Messi looks like he's on repeat in every game, before beating players or creating as a fan, a lot of the time you know what's about to happen, with dinho it was different. Doubt even he himself knew what he was about to do.
Doing stepovers or flicks and pointless lookaways isn't really imaginative. It's entertaining but a lot of it is fluff. Ronaldinho's most imaginative moments were his brilliant runs and passes and mind boggling finishes, and it's the same with Messi, but he holds the fluff.
You said it yourself, those things are so subtle at times (like a simple drop of the shoulder) that people who don't really know about football or who haven't played it would not fully grasp it like we would.
When you know your shit about football (and you're not extremely biased), you'll realize that Messi is a great and a truly unique player in the history of the game. Ronaldinho's skills were less "subtle" and more eye catching in general, therefore even the dumbest viewer could see it clearly when he does something great.
It is imaginative when you know to use which trick at which moment. This is what separates the idiots like say Taarabt and the greats like Ronaldinho. Besides a lot of his brilliant runs included stepovers and tricks, you can't separate them.
Not to add - the fact that Taarabt is about a 1/50th of the player in terms of ability.
Entertainment wise Ronaldinho takes it for me. Messi does things which are sheer genius on the regular but Ronaldinho used to do things which were ridiculous. His goal against Chelsea, his flicks tricks etc. He was free styling out there. It's also about how Ronaldinho did it, he had the smile on his facing just seemed to be having fun he was a showman. Messi who is comfortably the better footballer is like a machine in terms of consistency and application.
Yes, I wanted the worst possible example.
Nothing Dinho did was fluff, most of it was effective. Those pointless lookaways lead to match deciding goals in massive games(ie vs milan) those step overs got rid of the best defenders (ask cole).
Lots of it was fluff, some of it was effective.
That's why I loved watching Ronaldinho, he wasn't just for show, a lot of the fancy stuff was productive, it was amazing to see. Some of the stuff he did was crazy, it was always worth tuning into PSG and Barca games just for him.
Ronnie was just..incredible but also complex to do. I still find more incredible the Messi way. I can't believe how simply the guy does his movements and how unstoppable he can be.
Loved the goal Ronaldinho scored against Chelsea in 2005. Jaw dropping stuff.
One of my favourite goals ever. Almost like a magic trick and he'd pulled a rabbit out of the hat. Bunch of Chelsea players all on their toes waiting for him to thread a pass then BOOM, it's in the net and they're all left standing thinking "you were supposed to be playing a pass"
The no-look is the most pointless thing in football. It was a goal because of the quality of pass not because he didn't look.
This is blatantly untrue. He was capable of lightning moments of genius, but his main flaw was how often he slowed down play by deliberating on the ball, stepping about with it to see if he could do something game changing.
Messi is far more economic.
Can't remember but I think it was Sanchez who pulled a terrible no look off this year. Very rarely does it have any sort of influence on the defenders actions. Not a useless tool to have just hard to make it count for anything else than being entertaining.
The 'no look' pass IS something that is pointless fluff. Charlie Adam does it for fecks sake!
Does anyone here think Messi doesn't have the talent to do all those skills, no looks or whatever, or he doesn't possess the intelligence to know when to use them? He just has far better, deadlier weapons in his locker. Why in the world would he bother with things like stepovers, when he can simply accelerate and waltz past most defenders in a single touch and the defender can do feckall about it? Makes no sense.
Messi is far more economic because he doesn't have to do as much to get passed players due to his agility and superior acceleration.
His slowing down of the game was never an issue as it almost always ended in something special, especially when he was 1 on 1. Ronaldinho didn't do tricks for show, he did them for effect. Don't think I ever saw him(in his pomp) do a trick for the cameras rather than beat a man/men. Fluff should be associated with the likes of denilson and cristiano(in his younger days) not dinho.
Not its not, its very deceptive and anything to deceive defenders is useful. Hence some forwards give keepers 'the eyes' before shooting(benteke did recently I think). Just delays defenders reaction for that split second that can prove to be vital.
He does it at times, stepovers etc. You answered your initial question yourself.
I really find it surprising that so many people find it jaw dropping. It was just a simple goal by Ronaldinho's standards. In my opinion, that was nothing compared to the other amazing goals that he has scored or other amazing stuff he has done on a football field. He just did a body feint and slotted the ball in the corner.
For me Ronaldinho is football. He is above Messi, Ronaldo and the others. Maybe only Ronaldo the Brazilian would come close to him.
Ronaldinho epitomizes the spirit of Samba, it is safe to say that all that he did, he did to enjoy the game, end of. Not for the cameras, not to win the match. It just happened that he was that good that him enjoying himself equalled to his team winning the game. I can't imagine him being involved in a tactical discussion and going "alright then, that defender is slow on the turn I'll probably use that skill against him.". Not a chance, he couldn't care less who the defender was, or the opposition was. I know some would be thinking I'm talking about Garrincha and not a modern day great who excelled in a tactically challenging competition such as the CL, but that's how I view his game.
I don't think he did anything for camera but like all "trickster" players a good part of his trickery wouldn't result in anything productive. He was the best at it, so that's not a slight on him. It's just that trickery is that sort of thing where you have to do 5 things and one will actually make a tangible difference. Maybe a couple of those other 5 he,p unsettle the defender mentally, but yeah it's never a super high success rate for anyone IMO.
With regards to the bolded bit, it's more than acceleration and agility. Messi's command over the football is something ronaldhinio did not have. It's almost like an extension of his foot. The way id put it is that ronaldhinio did amazing things with the ball but Messi does exactly what he wants with the ball.
Btw, loved watching ronaldhinio. For some I remember him scoring a free kick goal on his birthday. Free kick goal.