Is he a recluse?
LGBTQ+ inclusion and Religion Debate in Football
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
Is he a recluse?
I remember Kanoute didn't want to do this for similar reason. Since he's an important player to the team, he got way more leverage than a backup player for example and are allowed to wear a shirt without sponsors
Statistically speaking, he has been with gay men in locker rooms. He just didn't know it because people like him are the reason they have to hide.
Not sure that’s strictly correct, at least not in NI where homophobic bakeries refuse to sell a cake because they didn’t agree with the gay friendly messaging the customer wanted. A fair few religious types came out in support of the shop. Also the DUP is full of noble thumpers who won’t budge on gay rights, same sex marriages etc because the “bible doesn’t state so” or “it’s Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve”.
Well done religion, you’re one large bigoted blight
Sure but he picks to abstain from wearing a rainbow but is fine advertising betting and alcohol. Now why is it always OK to just skip the part where you show homosexuality some decensy whilst supporting other cardinal sins?
The answer is simply that these individuals who pick and choose are hateful. The feeling that they have towards homosexuality are hateful. I don't know how else you could describe it.
this is a statistically impossibility
He chose not to wear the jacket. He clearly feels enough negative sentiment towards the LGBTQ+ community to make that choice.
or maybe he did know, but simply wasn't fussed about that.
Ah the old ‘political ideologies shoved down my throat’ classic.
Being gay isn’t political. I’ve never, ever seen somebody who is a genuine ally or supporter of gay rights complain that it is being ‘shoved in their faces’.
Respecting religion is all fine and shit, but if your religion tells you to not respect gay people and shun them, your religion is crap and deserves less respect.
Amen.
Yeah that seems likely, given his position on wearing a jacket.
The squad shouldn't have covered for Mazraoui. While I don't agree with Mazraoui's beliefs, he should still be free to refuse something that he is ideologically against. The culture/society he grew up in has shaped his beliefs, just as our society/culture has shaped our beliefs that homosexuality should be embraced and included. Had most people here grown up in 1940s Britain (and not seen the progress made towards inclusivity since then), the majority would have similarly homophobic beliefs.
Despite people not liking his actions because it is counter to their beliefs, he isn't actually physically attacking homosexuals or causing direct harm to a community. I do however think Mazraoui should have been left alone in this display. Undoubtedly he would have received mass abuse from many of those who supported the LGBQT community, but that is the reality when you hold a view that is counter to the generally accepted social norms of a region/community. By all players refusing this pre-agreed gesture, it just conveys a message that the rest of the players and Manchester United as a club do not support this LGBQT display.
Despite people not liking his actions because it is counter to their beliefs, he isn't actually physically attacking homosexuals or causing direct harm to a community. I do however think Mazraoui should have been left alone in this display. Undoubtedly he would have received mass abuse from many of those who supported the LGBQT community, but that is the reality when you hold a view that is counter to the generally accepted social norms of a region/community. By all players refusing this pre-agreed gesture, it just conveys a message that the rest of the players and Manchester United as a club do not support this LGBQT display.
He never has this message on his armband (it's also not allowed) but chose to write it specifially on the rainbow armband. Never before. Now why would you do that? It's obviously a message. He doesn't write that Jesus supports gay people.
I don't know what else it could mean besides I'm Christian and I believe in the Bible and not the message on my arm. I.e. a giant Don't sign over support for LBGTQA.
Being gay isn't political, but wearing symbols for gay rights is political. You do see the distinction here?
Why is it political?
you can get along with someone without actively participating for the cause.
It's a campaign that aims at improving the status/position of a group. It's by definition political.
I think the issue with this is that you can't force or legislate acceptance. It has to be a gradual societal change in attitude towards issues.
Maybe the way clubs are going around this is wrong, because players of a certain faith aren't going to suddenly change their beliefs, whether rightly or wrongly.
I'm not saying that clubs should stop supporting the LGBTQ+ movement. Perhaps there are other ways, like launching an LGBTQ+ inspired kit (maybe therr already is one)? Or charity friendlies for LGBTQ+ communities or players.
I don't know what the answer is. I think Mazraoui is wrong to do this, it's such a small gesture for such a big meaning. But now trying to 'force' behaviour has brought about something potentially negative. Will more players follow suit? Will some fans agree because the like Mazrauoi as a player? Will the closet bigots be emboldened?
What about all major leagues use an LGBTQ inspired football? Don't like it, don't play football again. I think trying to force it on individuals is the wrong approach, but clubs and the PL need to find another way to keep pushing the agenda without polarising people.
Maybe the way clubs are going around this is wrong, because players of a certain faith aren't going to suddenly change their beliefs, whether rightly or wrongly.
I'm not saying that clubs should stop supporting the LGBTQ+ movement. Perhaps there are other ways, like launching an LGBTQ+ inspired kit (maybe therr already is one)? Or charity friendlies for LGBTQ+ communities or players.
I don't know what the answer is. I think Mazraoui is wrong to do this, it's such a small gesture for such a big meaning. But now trying to 'force' behaviour has brought about something potentially negative. Will more players follow suit? Will some fans agree because the like Mazrauoi as a player? Will the closet bigots be emboldened?
What about all major leagues use an LGBTQ inspired football? Don't like it, don't play football again. I think trying to force it on individuals is the wrong approach, but clubs and the PL need to find another way to keep pushing the agenda without polarising people.
The social courses around it are political. This is not about not being In approval of gay people. It’s about the politics around it like the rainbow flag.
No we must gather sandals together...in His Name!
Do you get along with people who consider who you are as person something sinful and to be rejected?
Funny enough there's a few islamic sects with a spiritual leader.
It's only seen as political because people have weaponised it to either oppress or discriminate against. Someone's sexuality is nobodies business unless they are being marginalised for being that way. Then the message is purely about equality and trying to create an environment where gay players feel like they can be open about it.
Also again the rainbow flag has been framed in sorts of nefarious reasons as a way to politicize it, to the point where some right-wingers seethe at the sight of anything with refracted light. That's on them.
well, is there an example of player not getting along with Maz and not wanting to by any chance?
you were sure he shared locker room with gay players, so they obviously didn't mind each other.
I can understand that. But that's why it should be left up to individual choice. Also, the article quoted 'not all in the changing room agreed with the decision'. So it sounds like a universal approach of 'one isn't wearing it, so we all won't' was not well received. Mazraoui's views are his own and that's another debate, the rest of the players just following suit is another and one I do have trouble with.
A colleague of mine is a decent bloke(well....)his views on gays and Muslims are mental, though. The man's a Christian whose What's App DP is the Star of David. What's it with the right wing and unconditional support of Israel? Anyway, he gets along with gay folk despite his views.
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Respecting intolerance is one to get your head around.
I don't think I'd particularly want to get along with him.
So much for the tolerant left.
It should be an individual choice but as I said earlier the reality is that neither side will accept those individual choices and everyone will be lambasted. For individuals it's actually easier to act as a group one way or the other.
Just look at this thread personally I don't care whether Mazraoui wear a jacked or not, even though I personally would wear it but a number of people vocally criticizes him for something that he didn't even advertise personally.
True. Most colleagues are Islamophobic and not particularly homophobic. But he'll go out of his way for people. Far more helpful than most folk.
There are spiritual leaders within the sects but nobody close to on par with how Christianity has the pope (where I'm assuming he could just say "this is the new way" and most would accept it. With Islam it's basically just the Quran as it was written and then people since then interpreting it in different ways, but they all stem from just the original writing
I still just don't understand why we keep positioning footballers as beacons in social campaigns. It's an idea that always be doomed to controversy so long as it's 'opt-out at your peril'.
Disagree with people saying that Mazraoui's history makes this incident predictable. All he had done before was an Instagram reply which wasn't saying really anything. He also wore a pride jacket made by Adidas before when he was at Ajax.
Speaking of Adidas, not sure they're in a position to pretend they're inclusive of all people after some of their actions over the last year.
Speaking of Adidas, not sure they're in a position to pretend they're inclusive of all people after some of their actions over the last year.
The tolerant left will achieve nowt.
We pic and choose what to tolerate(tolerate, sounds nice...)
There is actually mate. My sect has someone on par with the pope. As does Agar Khanis.
I suppose I'm probably just naïve, and would have preferred the players to be honest and have the bottle themselves to stand on their own convictions. But I digress.
I don't agree with Mazraoui either, and would have worn one myself too, and while I don't like it that is unfortunately his opinion.