LGBTQ+ inclusion and Religion Debate in Football

At the end of the day, you can’t force someone to do something, or care about a certain issue. Making him wear it anyway defeats the object.

So let him stand there singled out, and maybe he’ll get a slight glimpse into what it’s like.
 
We stand with the lgbtq community and we'll show it proudly on the picth!

What's that, one of your players is a bigot?

Scrape the whole thing.

We stand with the lgbtq community unless it actually causes us the tiniest bit of discomfort, in that case you're on your own. But we do care, really...
 
SilentWitness said:
The faith as a collective? Very far off it, probably never.

People within the faith though? Especially in western societies, there is a huge shift I think in terms of what it means in terms of following Islam and their perspective on different things.
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I’m well aware that at an individual level there’s been loads of progress. Just a shame that there doesn’t seem to be any progress at all in terms of the religious leaders/educators. Because that surely has to happen at some point?
 
maniak said:
We stand with the lgbtq community and we'll show it proudly on the picth!

What's that, one of your players is a bigot?

Scrape the whole thing.

We stand with the lgbtq community unless it actually causes us the tiniest bit of discomfort, in that case you're on your own. But we do care, really...
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at least we booted out our rapist.
 
RussellWilson said:
Mazraoui hasn't advocated hate or violence against anyone. He's just stated it isn't in line with his personal religious beliefs.

Many things are sin for one person but not another. Sex before marriage is sin in every religion that holds the same gravity. Doesn't mean he treats that person differently because he is committing a sin in his world view.
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that's a choice though

being gay isn't a choice and labelling that as a sin is a obviously wrong
 
Tarrou said:
that's a choice though

being gay isn't a choice and labelling that as a sin is a obviously wrong
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Having sex or not having sex is choice. Sins are physical acts, not thoughts or feelings.
 
RussellWilson said:
Mazraoui hasn't advocated hate or violence against anyone. He's just stated it isn't in line with his personal religious beliefs.

Many things are sin for one person but not another. Sex before marriage is sin in every religion that holds the same gravity. Doesn't mean he treats that person differently because he is committing a sin in his world view.
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That's a whole other debate. The post I replied to was ridiculous.
 
I don't know why people are bashing the club. It was his teammates that decided not to wear it. They have every right to do that.
 
Betson said:
If I were a player i would wear the jacket and armband as I support the message , but I would also support the freedom of expression rights of other players
not to wear or display these symbols be it the poppy or lgbtq symbols.
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This is where I am at. I think those who wanted to wear the jacket - hopefully the rest of the team - should have done so but I can also get the idea of not hanging your teammate out to dry for the inevitable week long headline news and abuse that was coming his way by doing so.
 
Lay said:
I think the anti racism one has worked. I can actually go to games now without being abused by my own fans, let alone the opposition.

But I also found the taking the knee stuff a bit cringe. But maybe it worked, I don't know.
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I think in the grand scheme of what's being discussed, cringe is fine.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m well aware that at an individual level there’s been loads of progress. Just a shame that there doesn’t seem to be any progress at all in terms of the religious leaders/educators. Because that surely has to happen at some point?
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I think it'll start to happen within a few generations but maybe I'm really naive to think so

this generation of kids in the UK is built different and are way more inclusive than we were back in my day

when those kids grow up to be religious leaders, community leaders and role models then things can really start to shift
 
Personally I think football has went too far into the political sphere. Whether it's to do with BLM, LGBT, Poppies etc etc etc

I'm going to concentrate on Poppies as this is the one that directly affects my support. I am British, I support the Poppy and donate every year. However I don't think it's necessary for every club across the UK to have a poppy embroidered on their shirt. I think first and foremost this is a sport. I think a minutes silence is plenty of respect and rememberence for our fallen dead who fought bravely against Nazi Germany and other wars across the globe. It was good enough for decades until probably the last 20 years or so when the embroidered Poppy started to appear on a few clubs shirts.

I go to football games to enjoy myself, forget about outside life for a few hours and blow off some steam. Not to have peoples political ideoligies thrusted upon me irregardless of what they are even if I agree with them. Sport should be left alone. If an individual within the sport whats to use their status to lobby their views outside of the sport thats up to them. But leave sport alone.

I no doubt will get pelters from some on here for not conforming to what they think I should say or believe, I don't really care, but that's my two cents for what it's worth.
 
Tarrou said:
I think it'll start to happen within a few generations but maybe I'm really naive to think so

this generation of kids in the UK is built different and are way more inclusive than we were back in my day

when those kids grow up to be religious leaders, community leaders and role models then things can really start to shift
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That’s already happening with Christian faiths. The worry is that the nature of the Islamic faith won’t allow that sort of progress? But I don’t know enough about religion to have any idea if this is true.

The mismatch between the different faiths is a bit of a worry. They all used to agree on the fundamentals of what is/isn’t a sin but only some of them seem to be moving with the times.
 
My thing is…a lot of people, whether Christian or Muslim, who are against homosexuality for “religious reasons” also fornicate, gamble, haven’t opened their bible (and don’t care to) since they were a kid who had no choice because of their parents, listen to worldly music and other haram shit so I can never take their arguments seriously
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m well aware that at an individual level there’s been loads of progress. Just a shame that there doesn’t seem to be any progress at all in terms of the religious leaders/educators. Because that surely has to happen at some point?
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It's unlikely because one of the big things about the Quran is that it's supposed to be "directly God's word" and untouched since it was written. Most things in it as always are a bit vague and open for interpretation but I don't think this point will ever be openly supported. It trends far more towards "live and let live" mentality rather than being against it, but also the "live and let live" thought process doesn't mean they will actively support it.

Also it's not like there an overarching pope who has the authority to make calls like that and people will listen. There's lots of different groups and maybe some hierarchy in it but nobody with the authority to truly have an impact on those issues
 
Adisa said:
I don't know why people are bashing the club. It was his teammates that decided not to wear it. They have every right to do that.
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They’ve got a right to do whatever. Just isn’t a good look. It reeks of the whole Suarez t shirt thing.
 
Sara125 said:
My thing is…a lot of people, whether Christian or Muslim, who are against homosexuality for “religious reasons” also fornicate, gamble, listen to worldly music and other haram shit so I can never take their arguments seriously
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yeah but that stuff impacts how they lead their lives. they’re taking about other people and their lives.
 
Steve Bruce said:
Personally I think football has went too far into the political sphere. Whether it's to do with BLM, LGBT, Poppies etc etc etc

I'm going to concentrate on Poppies as this is the one that directly affects my support. I am British, I support the Poppy and donate every year. However I don't think it's necessary for every club across the UK to have a poppy embroidered on their shirt. I think first and foremost this is a sport. I think a minutes silence is plenty of respect and rememberence for our fallen dead who fought bravely against Nazi Germany and other wars across the globe. It was good enough for decades until probably the last 20 years or so when the embroidered Poppy started to appear on a few clubs shirts.

I go to football games to enjoy myself, forget about outside life for a few hours and blow off some steam. Not to have peoples political ideoligies thrusted upon me irregardless of what they are even if I agree with them. Sport should be left alone. If an individual within the sport whats to use their status to lobby their views outside of the sport thats up to them. But leave sport alone.

I no doubt will get pelters from some on here for not conforming to what they think I should say or believe, I don't really care, but that's my two cents for what it's worth.
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I think where football went too far into the political sphere is that they allowed authoritarian, slave-dependent nations to run the show. Infantino hugging and whitewashing literal murderers bothers me more than BLM, LGBT and Poppies.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s already happening with Christian faiths. The worry is that the nature of the Islamic faith won’t allow that sort of progress? But I don’t know enough about religion to have any idea if this is true.

The mismatch between the different faiths is a bit of a worry. They all used to agree on the fundamentals of what is/isn’t a sin but only some of them seem to be moving with the times.
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They’re definitely overdue a reformation
 
Steve Bruce said:
Personally I think football has went too far into the political sphere. Whether it's to do with BLM, LGBT, Poppies etc etc etc

I'm going to concentrate on Poppies as this is the one that directly affects my support. I am British, I support the Poppy and donate every year. However I don't think it's necessary for every club across the UK to have a poppy embroidered on their shirt. I think first and foremost this is a sport. I think a minutes silence is plenty of respect and rememberence for our fallen dead who fought bravely against Nazi Germany and other wars across the globe. It was good enough for decades until probably the last 20 years or so when the embroidered Poppy started to appear on a few clubs shirts.

I go to football games to enjoy myself, forget about outside life for a few hours and blow off some steam. Not to have peoples political ideoligies thrusted upon me irregardless of what they are even if I agree with them. Sport should be left alone. If an individual within the sport whats to use their status to lobby their views outside of the sport thats up to them. But leave sport alone.

I no doubt will get pelters from some on here for not conforming to what they think I should say or believe, I don't really care, but that's my two cents for what it's worth.
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The argument against the Poppy is that, in war, the side being commemorated causes very real harm to the other side. So, I find any analogies there completely inaccurate.
 
Steve Bruce said:
Personally I think football has went too far into the political sphere. Whether it's to do with BLM, LGBT, Poppies etc etc etc

I'm going to concentrate on Poppies as this is the one that directly affects my support. I am British, I support the Poppy and donate every year. However I don't think it's necessary for every club across the UK to have a poppy embroidered on their shirt. I think first and foremost this is a sport. I think a minutes silence is plenty of respect and rememberence for our fallen dead who fought bravely against Nazi Germany and other wars across the globe. It was good enough for decades until probably the last 20 years or so when the embroidered Poppy started to appear on a few clubs shirts.

I go to football games to enjoy myself, forget about outside life for a few hours and blow off some steam. Not to have peoples political ideoligies thrusted upon me irregardless of what they are even if I agree with them. Sport should be left alone. If an individual within the sport whats to use their status to lobby their views outside of the sport thats up to them. But leave sport alone.

I no doubt will get pelters from some on here for not conforming to what they think I should say or believe, I don't really care, but that's my two cents for what it's worth.
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Problem is that it comes across quite cold to be bothered about small gestures of inclusivity and tolerance because it encroaches on your entertainment. It’s the largest sport in the world and as such is a good potential arena for helping to change attitudes.

And the fact that some people think saying "live and let live" is having someone’s politics thrust into your face is abhorrent. It’s basic human rights, mate, not an argument for the gold standard or regulations. If you feel encroached upon then imagine how people in the LGBTQ community feel as they’re being told they’re less deserving than others.
 
Bole Top said:
ermm... not wearing an armband.
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Not wearing an armband because you don’t want to wear one is fine.

Not wearing an armband because your religion told you that the people the armband is seeking to include do bad things is questionable and should be scrutinised.

I don’t wear a poppy and I haven’t bought one since I was about ten, but I didn’t come to this decision because of a book.
 
Semper Fudge said:
So gay people shouldn't be allowed to have sex?
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If the individual doesn't believe it is a sin, then why would they stop.

The original post said it is wrong for a religion to label homosexuality a sin. I pointed out that it only applies if you believe in the tenants of said religion.
 
Red Star One said:
I think where football went too far into the political sphere is that they allowed authoritarian, slave-dependent nations to run the show. Infantino hugging and whitewashing literal murderers bothers me more than BLM, LGBT and Poppies.
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I honestly know nothing about that, I support Manchester United and Linfield in the Irish League, I go to the Linfield games most weeks and get over to see United once or twice a season, I go to the games and support my teams, all the other BS in FIFA/UEFA/FA/IFA etc don't enter my mind. I want to watch football, not worry about the political corruption around the world.
 
RussellWilson said:
If the individual doesn't believe it is a sin, then why would they stop.

The original post said it is wrong for a religion to label homosexuality a sin. I pointed out that it only applies if you believe in the tenants of said religion.
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But the information you presented was totally inaccurate?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s already happening with Christian faiths. The worry is that the nature of the Islamic faith won’t allow that sort of progress? But I don’t know enough about religion to have any idea if this is true.

The mismatch between the different faiths is a bit of a worry. They all used to agree on the fundamentals of what is/isn’t a sin but only some of them seem to be moving with the times.
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It’s not the nature of Islamic faith. Look up pictures from Afghanistan and Iran in the 60s. The way women are dressed you’d think they were western countries. People just don’t tend to be progressive when basic necessities in life (or their lives in general) get threatened. That’s where hardcore religion butters its bread.
 
Bole Top said:
for him and any other man that is true to whatever he's believing.

you're surprised because you're used to fake, meaningless support all Hendersons of this world bring.
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But you’re assuming that Henderson and Kane don’t believe in what they say they do?

I’d have understood if your general point was that you have respect for someone standing up for what they believe in, even if it goes against the dominant narrative.

But you’re saying you have more respect for him than Henderson or Kane.

Presumably you believe anyone who outlines support for LGBT rights is doing so in a hypocritical manner?
 
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