LGBTQ+ inclusion and Religion Debate in Football

gulli_G said:
A lot of people don't understand the Muslim view, it's not about hating LGBTQ people, they are free to do whatever they like, Muslims are not allowed to promote something prohibited in Islam and will not promote it.

This is not exclusive to Islam but all 3 Abrahamic religions. He is not hating on LGBTQ, he just exercised his right to not wear it and should not be forced to do it in the same way a LGBTQ person should not be forced to do something they don't want to.
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Tell that to the twitter replies.

If you declare homsexuality a sin, call it a lewd act, talks of stoning to death, immorality, the greatest of crimes, etc... then that's giving out hateful messaging about a group of people for something out of their control. Semantically yes he's not 'hating' on LGBTQ people but his actions do that for him. What else is he doing by refusing to wear it? It's prohibited in his religion because they see it as an awful act, so he feels he cannot condone it. That's just straight up judging someone for who they are (which doesn't affect anyone else in the slightest).
 
moses said:
No it's not. Not remotely.
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So as one of the staff you think it's an appropriate comment and wouldn't feel discriminatory for religious members on the site?

What if they'd said "Bin off Islam" or "Bin off Jews". Are you ok with that?
 
Davìd Moyéz said:
How is this kind of comment allowed? This is as offensive as writing "Bin off all Asians" or "Bin off all disabled".
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It's not exactly a new train of thought that religion has caused the majority of wars and conflict in human history and that things would be more peaceful without it.
 
Davìd Moyéz said:
So as one of the staff you think it's an appropriate comment and wouldn't feel discriminatory for religious members on the site?

What if they'd said "Bin off Islam" or "Bin off Jews". Are you ok with that?
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That's completely different because it's targeting a specific group and not the concept of religion.
 
Solius said:
If there was an armband everyone was wearing for sick kids with cancer and one player refused to wear it, you'd question why that was. It's just the same thing here.
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I really hope you're not serious.
Putting cancer sick kids in the same bracket with people with unorthodox sexual orientation. World's gone mad.
 
i reckon the religions that talk about banning homosexuality were written by latent homos.
 
Weird, the ardent Zionist reporter found a way to attack the Muslim squad member critical of genocide.
 
Solius said:
It's not exactly a new train of thought that religion has caused the majority of wars and conflict in human history and that things would be more peaceful without it.
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Going off topic but I don’t think it’s religion that causes war. It’s tribalism. Yes most ‘tribes’ historically have been religious but if it wasn’t that there’d be something else.
 
Solius said:
It's not exactly a new train of thought that religion has caused the majority of wars and conflict in human history and that things would be more peaceful without it.
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Its complete twaddle though and extremely lazy and ill informed. And it shows you up as ignorant and agenda driven that you'd resort to that to defend a post that shamelessly alienates more than half of the worlds population.
 
Davìd Moyéz said:
Its complete twaddle though and extremely lazy and ill informed. And it shows you up as ignorant and agenda driven that you'd resort to that to defend a post that shamelessly alienates more than half of the worlds population.
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let’s jihad him.
 
Davìd Moyéz said:
So as one of the staff you think it's an appropriate comment and wouldn't feel discriminatory for religious members on the site?

What if they'd said "Bin off Islam" or "Bin off Jews". Are you ok with that?
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Not the same. They would be discrimination. Being anti religion is a valid point of view. Feel free to argue against it.
 
Andy_Cole said:
Going off topic but I don’t think it’s religion that causes war. It’s tribalism. Yes most ‘tribes’ historically have been religious but if it wasn’t that there’d be something else.
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Yes, but historically religion has been used with great effect to mobilise the tribe.
 
Davìd Moyéz said:
Its complete twaddle though and extremely lazy and ill informed. And it shows you up as ignorant and agenda driven that you'd resort to that to defend a post that shamelessly alienates more than half of the worlds population.
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I think it's a fair take. Religion is on the decline globally. A lot of people think it's a load of contradictory guff.
 
Davìd Moyéz said:
Its complete twaddle though and extremely lazy and ill informed. And it shows you up as ignorant and agenda driven that you'd resort to that to defend a post that shamelessly alienates more than half of the worlds population.
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People are born gay, Asian, disabled (or injured), but they chose to believe in made up fairytales.
There's a huge difference.
 
Solius said:
Tell that to the twitter replies.

If you declare homsexuality a sin, call it a lewd act, talks of stoning to death, immorality, the greatest of crimes, etc... then that's giving out hateful messaging about a group of people for something out of their control. Semantically yes he's not 'hating' on LGBTQ people but his actions do that for him. What else is he doing by refusing to wear it? It's prohibited in his religion because they see it as an awful act, so he feels he cannot condone it. That's just straight up judging someone for who they are (which doesn't affect anyone else in the slightest).
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There is a difference, if you see him going around and being homophobic you would have a point, but him refusing something he is being pressured to wear is not homophobic. Same way people want rights respected, LGBTQ, Racism etc. people should respect peoples religious rights, to not force them to do something they don't want to, regardless of one's own world view, Atheist or otherwise.

Probably half the world follows Abrahamic religions. In the UK we have Freedom of Religion rights too.
 
Quality control
Solius said:
I think it's a fair take. Religion is on the decline globally. A lot of people think it's a load of contradictory guff.
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You're probably one of those people that blame World War 2 on the Jews aren't you
 
maniak said:
I'm sure I've read about players not being happy to have betting sponsors on their shirts, but they're forced to wear it. So if this jacked is official matchday gear, I'm sure they could force him.
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didn't work in France though. they tried that with kits, then that ex Everton DM simply made himself unavailable to start on that day for 2 or 3 seasons in row. along several other players of course.
 
gulli_G said:
There is a difference, if you see him going around and being homophobic you would have a point, but him refusing something he is being pressured to wear is not homophobic. Same way people want rights respected, LGBTQ, Racism etc. people should respect peoples religious rights, to not force them to do something they don't want to, regardless of one's own world view, Atheist or otherwise.

Probably half the world follows Abrahamic religions. In the UK we have Freedom of Religion rights too.
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Yes but the point is, why does he not want to wear it? If his religious rights mean they shun gay people then that's going to be criticised. People don't have to respect religious views that project discrimination against another group of people.
 
Bole Top said:
didn't work in France though. they tried that with kits, then that ex Everton DM simply made himself unavailable to start on that day for 2 or 3 seasons in row. along several other players of course.
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Bunch of snowflakes.
 
Davìd Moyéz said:
You're probably one of those people that blame World War 2 on the Jews aren't you
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You've not given a valid argument against what's being said but are happy to throw out tosh like this just because you don't like it. Either wise up and debate sensibly or stop posting.
 
SilentWitness said:
You've not given a valid argument against what's being said but are happy to throw out tosh like this just because you don't like it. Either wise up and debate sensibly or stop posting.
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It's a legitimate question against someone ignorantly claiming that most wars are caused because of religion
 
One has to tread lightly here.

If the dressing room was prepared to drop it, then it would have been fine. If it was significant for the many to do the gesture, then they should have.
Maz is entitled to his views, but instead of dropping the gesture they might have dropped him for these games.
 
Davìd Moyéz said:
It's a legitimate question against someone ignorantly claiming that most wars are caused because of religion
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It's not a question when you frame it as "you're probably one of those people" is it?
 
gulli_G said:
A lot of people don't understand the Muslim view, it's not about hating LGBTQ people, they are free to do whatever they like, Muslims are not allowed to promote something prohibited in Islam and will not promote it.

This is not exclusive to Islam but all 3 Abrahamic religions. He is not hating on LGBTQ, he just exercised his right to not wear it and should not be forced to do it in the same way a LGBTQ person should not be forced to do something they don't want to.
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So United cant have a betting, banking or alcohol brand on their shirts in the future because Mazraoui wont wear it?
 
Solius said:
Yes but the point is, why does he not want to wear it? If his religious rights mean they shun gay people then that's going to be criticised. People don't have to respect religious views that project discrimination against another group of people.
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Why does he need to be forced to wear a jacket or band to show he can live peacefully and not hurt people of any type? And why him not wearing it means he hates LGBTQ, just religiously he is not allowed to promote it. Doesn't mean he hates any community.

This conflation always happens.
 
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