LGBTQ+ inclusion and Religion Debate in Football
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
You won't get an answer.
Well it's his decision to actively not wear it that makes people think Mazraoui thinks it's wrong.
I ask this with respect but is there any sign at all of the Islamic faith getting its shit together about this sort of thing?
Conservative Christians are obviously just as bad but in general the way that LGBTQ stuff is talked about in most Christian churches has become very tolerant and inclusive. There surely has to be a way for Islam to eventually square the circle too? Because these intolerant footballers are obviously only the (very visible) tip of the iceberg.
Conservative Christians are obviously just as bad but in general the way that LGBTQ stuff is talked about in most Christian churches has become very tolerant and inclusive. There surely has to be a way for Islam to eventually square the circle too? Because these intolerant footballers are obviously only the (very visible) tip of the iceberg.
I'm really disappointed in the players then just not wearing the top en masse. I don't agree with Mazraoui's decision at all, but for the rest of the squad to then just not wear it is really poor.
And if he doesn't want to wear it, fine. Let him stand there and show he doesn't. Same with anyone else who doesn't want to. Don't then just have everyone in the squad do the same cause it's easier.
And if he doesn't want to wear it, fine. Let him stand there and show he doesn't. Same with anyone else who doesn't want to. Don't then just have everyone in the squad do the same cause it's easier.
They are though, in every major religion.
Why do non religious people care if they are seen as sinners by a God they don't believe in.
Maz didn't want to wear it and the majority of the squad decided to follow him. Looks like a team decision, wouldn't be worse if they news were " Manchester United made players wear xxx against their will". Inclusion won't work if we are imposing, we need to approach this different to really find better end result, the current way it's not working.
I'm not sure if I'd say "most Christian churches", while Protestants and their churches indeed seem to have largely realised that homophobia is counterproductive and doesn't align with the Christian values, the Catholics and their churches (majority of Christians) are still quite homophobic and mental shift there is very slow. So I'd guess it's the same across Islam - you'll have more and less progressive branches.
United didn’t want Mazraoui to be singled out by being the only one not wearing the jacket, but surely the club should have at least somewhat expected/been prepared for this information leaking anyway, so now Mazraoui is in the spotlight for the very thing they wanted to protect him from. Just on a practical level, I think United miscalculated this one.
If the club had committed to the show of support, Mazraoui refusing to participate should have been more reason to follow through with that commitment, not the opposite.
If the club had committed to the show of support, Mazraoui refusing to participate should have been more reason to follow through with that commitment, not the opposite.
if you ever find anyone who strictly adhere to ALL religious rules, I'd like to meet them.If it's a "sorry, it conflicts with my religion so i can't wear it", then we're back to respecting his rights and it shouldn't really be a problem either. If he stood up and had a rant about how homosexuality is wrong, then it would be a major issue. You can have different views and respect other peoples right to disagree, without actively trying to change their mind or state they are wrong
Em. It's not the God, it's the material effect of the make believe nonsense. Which ranges from verbal abuse to murder.
Great to see we let homophobes influence what we do when it comes to LGBTQ+ inclusion.
It's ok guys. We have to accept that his religion hates the gays.
We don't, we care about the ridiculous reaction its followers have and the consequences it has on others.
Whatever about Mazraoui not wanting to wear it, the rest of the squad then caving and not wearing it is really disappointing.
I think we can and should ask people to be respectful and tolerant of other values and beliefs.
Asking them for wholesale acceptance and approval of things they don't believe in, is a bit trickier.
Asking them for wholesale acceptance and approval of things they don't believe in, is a bit trickier.
The faith as a collective? Very far off it, probably never.
People within the faith though? Especially in western societies, there is a huge shift I think in terms of what it means in terms of following Islam and their perspective on different things.
gay "rights" wouldn't mean shit if the likes of him weren't free to refuse participating at the same time. this is the world I want to live in.
I have much more respect for him and that Ipswich player than for millions of Hendersons and Kanes.
and obviously, let's hope United is relegated just like Ipswich
Out of interest, why do you have more respect for him than the others you mentioned?
I wouldn't bother, they have a history of not caring about the abused.
Also "rights" stuff.
I'm not saying you need to strictly adhere to all religious rules, but if you cowardly hide behind your religion saying "Islam doesn't allow me to wear rainbow, I'm sorry" rather than "I just don't feel like wearing it" than yes, you are a big hypocrite as you try to excuse your bigotry pretending "I'm forced to obey religious rules" while conveniently ignoring other rules.
A few years ago something similar happened in the NHL and iirc anonymous players suggested that the vast majority of players don't want to wear these shirts and they don't want to be dragged into these debates. It's 100% driven by corporations.
Edit: the last occurence was 2023.
I think it's really nice that the PL have allowed for short breaks during the games during Ramadan. But how would those players, and muslim soccer fans as a whole, have felt if the PL said "nah we're not going to allow it, specifically because Islam is against our beliefs and we don't like it"?
If I were a player i would wear the jacket and armband as I support the message , but I would also support the freedom of expression rights of other players
not to wear or display these symbols be it the poppy or lgbtq symbols.
not to wear or display these symbols be it the poppy or lgbtq symbols.
It’s my religious belief that you all have to give me a fiver. You have to respect it and I can’t suffer any consequences because it’s religious.
The whole thing is such a farce because everything is Inherently political, so it’s pick and choose. The reality is that not all opinions are equally valid, if you have a religious belief that is shit, that doesn’t supersede other peoples rights even if it’s covered by religious freedom rights. Where there is a clash the least shit option wins out.
The whole thing is such a farce because everything is Inherently political, so it’s pick and choose. The reality is that not all opinions are equally valid, if you have a religious belief that is shit, that doesn’t supersede other peoples rights even if it’s covered by religious freedom rights. Where there is a clash the least shit option wins out.
The players siding with Mazroui, presumably out of togetherness, is ironic
Perhaps football should make the decision to stop supporting any kind of movement. Have any of their campaigns actually made an impact? As far as I can see, racism and homophobia still exist on a wide scale. Why not just say "no more" and let players and clubs decide if they want to support initiatives?
for him and any other man that is true to whatever he's believing.
you're surprised because you're used to fake, meaningless support all Hendersons of this world bring.
Our next kit should be rainbow themed
Ah yes, good old honest bigotry.
Shit decision. Let fecking Mazraoui go it alone, not sure why the rest of the club should be so backwards just because he thinks his God hates queers.
yeah, " ".
not a single living man should expect someone else wearing armband or jacket is some kind of right.
before you praise him too much, don’t forget he’s a north-african immigrant. most people would agree they’re among the worst kind.
Nobody’s mind needs to be changed. But pointing out that a belief system that dictates disliking and disagreeing with specific groups of people is the very definition of wrong.
Hiding behind ‘rights’ and ‘belief’ to justify objectively shit views is a non-starter.
It’s not just being seen as it though in some. In certain places it’s punishable by death. In the 80s gay people were made to feel like lepers due to the AIDS crisis.
But what he's believing is quite hateful, no?
Mazraoui hasn't advocated hate or violence against anyone. He's just stated it isn't in line with his personal religious beliefs.
Many things are sin for one person but not another. Sex before marriage is sin in every religion that holds the same gravity. Doesn't mean he treats that person differently because he is committing a sin in his world view.
It’s the paradox of tolerance.
I think the anti racism one has worked. I can actually go to games now without being abused by my own fans, let alone the opposition.
But I also found the taking the knee stuff a bit cringe. But maybe it worked, I don't know.