LGBTQ+ inclusion and Religion Debate in Football

Iker Quesadillas said:
I understand the important biological and political dimensions to the lifestyle/identity argument, and, as you say, potential prejudices. But I feel like ... 'born this way' isn't the actual primary reason we should be respectful of homosexuality, bisexuality, etc. The primary reason is because there is simply nothing wrong with it on a conceptual level with the identity or the "lifestyle".
Click to expand...

The reason I feel it's important is because many defending Maz and Guehi have made comparisons to things that are literally choices like premarital sex or gambling. @BD and @Pogue Mahone have already explained this very well but that's disingenuous or, giving the benefit of the doubt, very misinformed because being LGBTQ is literally not a choice. It's not at all like saying 'i don't want to promote pre martial sex', instead it's like saying 'i don't want to promote black people'. It's even worse to compare it to an addiction like gambling or smoking pot for reasons that should be obvious.

Saying its a "lifestyle" to begin with is both extremely damaging and oppressive when that framing of it is pounded into young people just trying to sort out their natural feelings and identity and their place in the world. Likewise the whole notion that the emotions are okay but just don't ever act of it because that's a sin should be related to the trash bin of ideas historically because it's long past time for that type of thinking to end.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at but one man can simultaneously hold two different principles, for similar reasons, one of which you find noble and the other you despise.
Click to expand...
I mean that while I understand your reasoning and the actions of Amorim, ideally the club would have seen Mazraoui‘s actions as an opportunity to set a precedent and prove that they are serious about their support, no matter how difficult it is. The crisis caused by Mazraoui provided the club with an opportunity to do the right thing. They chose not to and took the easy way out.
 
HTG said:
I mean that while I understand your reasoning and the actions of Amorim, ideally the club would have seen Mazraoui‘s actions as an opportunity to set a precedent and prove that they are serious about their support, no matter how difficult it is. The crisis caused by Mazraoui provided the club with an opportunity to do the right thing. They chose not to and took the easy way out.
Click to expand...

Ok, yeah. I misunderstood you and I agree. But it’s a decision based on priorities. And this shows where their priorities lie.
 
HTG said:
You are lacking any perspective on the struggle of queer people. Completely. The club asked its players to show the world that it stands for the believe that all people are equal and shouldn’t face discrimination. Because queer people are being discriminated and suffer due to it worldwide, but also in England and especially within football. They are being discriminated so badly, that not a single player in that league has ever felt save enough to publicly stand by their homosexuality. They are being forced to hide their true personality every day, every hour and every second of their public lives and parts of their private lives. This is an absolutely horrible way to live one’s life. It’s inhumane and can make you sick.
The club asked its players to make a small gesture in support of the idea that queer people should be allowed and able to live life like everyone else. They didn’t ask for any political ideology to be promoted. Just a small gesture of humanity. That was it.
As football clubs are much more than businesses and serve as social and cultural institutions, they not only have the right to ask their players to stand for basic human rights and dignity, they have a responsibility to do so. At least if they intend on acting socially responsible.
United‘s mistake wasn’t to ask its players to show this incredibly small gesture that conveys an idea that should be the most normal thing in the world. Their mistake was to stand idly by as the team decided to side with discrimination instead of humanity and basic decency.
As a queer person myself, my disappointment with United is gigantic. The biggest sport club in England has refused to publicly stand by basic human decency in order to appease the radical and inhumane convictions of a single player.
And yet, you criticise them for asking Mazraoui to be a decent person to begin with. It’s mind boggling really and I struggle to maintain respect for you.
Click to expand...
I don't want to get into the personal aspects of this, but I'm afraid you are wrong about my own perspective on the struggle of queer people. Absolutely wrong, I see it every day.

But while I understand why you might personally feel let down, my argument is there are lots of ways for organisations to show their proper support for various causes that do not require them to risk exposing their employees to public disapproval, whether football clubs or not, and advance the goals you talk about.

United can run adverts. They can sponsor events or campaigns. They can donate money. They can show allyship at a corporate level in a load of ways, while encouraging players to undertake individual actions if they want. None of those require asking individual players to in effect, have to take a public position which they might not, for whatever reason (rightly or wrongly) be ready to take. And I think in a multi cultural league, where we have players from all sorts of backgrounds from all over the world, some of which might not have the same views as ours, we need to find a way respect those complexities, and bring them along, not expose them.

I criticise them for their naivety. Their mistake was to expect someone with strong religious beliefs to just fall into line over a gesture.
 
Last edited:
HTG said:
You are lacking any perspective on the struggle of queer people. Completely. The club asked its players to show the world that it stands for the believe that all people are equal and shouldn’t face discrimination. Because queer people are being discriminated and suffer due to it worldwide, but also in England and especially within football. They are being discriminated so badly, that not a single player in that league has ever felt save enough to publicly stand by their homosexuality. They are being forced to hide their true personality every day, every hour and every second of their public lives and parts of their private lives. This is an absolutely horrible way to live one’s life. It’s inhumane and can make you sick.
The club asked its players to make a small gesture in support of the idea that queer people should be allowed and able to live life like everyone else. They didn’t ask for any political ideology to be promoted. Just a small gesture of humanity. That was it.
As football clubs are much more than businesses and serve as social and cultural institutions, they not only have the right to ask their players to stand for basic human rights and dignity, they have a responsibility to do so. At least if they intend on acting socially responsible.
United‘s mistake wasn’t to ask its players to show this incredibly small gesture that conveys an idea that should be the most normal thing in the world. Their mistake was to stand idly by as the team decided to side with discrimination instead of humanity and basic decency.
As a queer person myself, my disappointment with United is gigantic. The biggest sport club in England has refused to publicly stand by basic human decency in order to appease the radical and inhumane convictions of a single player.
And yet, you criticise them for asking Mazraoui to be a decent person to begin with. It’s mind boggling really and I struggle to maintain respect for you.
Click to expand...
Bravo. Stellar post.
 
HTG said:
I mean that while I understand your reasoning and the actions of Amorim, ideally the club would have seen Mazraoui‘s actions as an opportunity to set a precedent and prove that they are serious about their support, no matter how difficult it is. The crisis caused by Mazraoui provided the club with an opportunity to do the right thing. They chose not to and took the easy way out.
Click to expand...
Because it was a token gesture, ie "a small or unimportant action or thing that is intended to show feelings or intentions that may not be sincere."

Don't do token gestures.
 
if the club actually gave a shit they wouldn't have signed him in the first place
 
HTG said:
I mean that while I understand your reasoning and the actions of Amorim, ideally the club would have seen Mazraoui‘s actions as an opportunity to set a precedent and prove that they are serious about their support, no matter how difficult it is. The crisis caused by Mazraoui provided the club with an opportunity to do the right thing. They chose not to and took the easy way out.
Click to expand...

Club is between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they can't force a player to do something which isn't "part of the deal" (not sure how to do explain this but Maz was signed to play football and not be rapey, druggie, wife beaty etc not sure supporting each and every cause is part of the drill). If they did drop him or "punish" him in some way there would be cause for being discriminatory in religious grounds etc.

On the other hand they do various bits for the lgbtq week and this was a small part of it.

They still doing the rest so it's the making the best of a situation really.

Forgive me for a really daft example here but Greenwood wouldn't have been ousted if he had not participated in domestic violence week. Similarly Maz would have been if he had voiced or committed acts of homophobia.
 
nickm said:
I don't want to get into the personal aspects of this, but I'm afraid you are wrong about my own perspective on the struggle of queer people. Absolutely wrong, I see it every day.

But while I understand why you might personally feel let down, my argument is there are lots of ways for organisations to show their proper support for various causes that do not require them to risk exposing their employees to public disapproval, whether football clubs or not, and advance the goals you talk about.

United can run adverts. They can sponsor events or campaigns. They can donate money. They can show allyship at a corporate level in a load of ways, while encouraging players to undertake individual actions if they want. None of those require asking individual players to in effect, have to take a public position which they might not, for whatever reason (rightly or wrongly) be ready to take. And I think in a multi cultural league, where we have players from all sorts of backgrounds from all over the world, some of which might not have the same views as ours, we need to find a way respect those complexities, and bring them along, not expose them.

I criticise them for their naivety. Their mistake was to expect someone with strong religious beliefs to just fall into line over a gesture.
Click to expand...
They all did it the last two seasons. The exact same campaign.

So why is it now a problem?
 
Taking a thread off topic
It's quite interesting that the most vocal folks here are Bayern/German supporters. Hypocrites who live in and support racist country/club that doesn't allow muslims any freedom of speech to support Palestine while you are free to show support for genocidal country of Israel there without any problems.
 
Amar__ said:
It's quite interesting that the most vocal folks here are Bayern/German supporters. Hypocrites who live in and support racist country/club that doesn't allow muslims any freedom of speech to support Palestine while you are free to show support for genocidal country of Israel there without any problems.
Click to expand...
I’ve been very vocal and I’m neither.

Do you believe Mazraoui’s freedom of expression has been infringed here more so than the club and entire other squad members who have previously supported this campaign 2 seasons in a row?

For your other points what do they have to do with inclusion and religion in sport?
 
For what it’s worth @Amar__ I’d agree the actions of Israel are incredibly similar to genocidal ones.

I’m just not sure why you have decided to express this here and have a go at posters who have not to my knowledge expressed any opinion on that matter and have merely pointed out the homophobia shown based on religious belief.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I’ve been very vocal and I’m neither.

Do you believe Mazraoui’s freedom of expression has been infringed here more so than the club and entire other squad members who have previously supported this campaign 2 seasons in a row?

For your other points what do they have to do with inclusion and religion in sport?
Click to expand...

Amorim said entire squad decided to support Mazroui's decision so I seriously doubt they were all very vocal against Mazroui, otherwise I am sure we would see some comments from some players if they were against this group decision.

Saying that, I don't neccesarily agree with club's decision in this, but it's obviously a difficult decision.

For my other points, I just like to point out people who are hypocritical as I think these are the worst people in the world, on the street, on the internet. Some of the worst people in the world who make this world bad place to live in act like this. Pushing their own agenda while ignoring bad things that happen. And it's not whataboutism because this is all Mazroui related, we are talking about person who was potentially sold from their club because of his views. And now they are blaming him for some other views, so there's obviously a strong agenda and hate for him.
 
Amar__ said:
It's quite interesting that the most vocal folks here are Bayern/German supporters. Hypocrites who live in and support racist country/club that doesn't allow muslims any freedom of speech to support Palestine while you are free to show support for genocidal country of Israel there without any problems.
Click to expand...
Do you mean me?
 
HTG said:
Do you mean me?
Click to expand...

I have seen two(or three?) german posters with pretty much similar strong views, and you are the one with most posts our of them all, so yeah.
 
Amar__ said:
I have seen two(or three?) german posters with pretty much similar strong views, and you are the one with most posts our of them all, so yeah.
Click to expand...
So you think it is appropriate to misuse the suffering of the Palestinian people, to score points in a discussion about homophobia, as a way to counter the arguments made by someone who explicitly criticized the treatment Mazraoui has received for his statements regarding this conflict? That is hypocrisy for you? What an outright terrible clusterfeck of a post. Be ashamed of yourself and get some perspective.
 
HTG said:
So you think it is appropriate to misuse the suffering of the Palestinian people, to score points in a discussion about homophobia, as a way to counter the arguments made by someone who explicitly criticized the treatment Mazraoui has received for his statements regarding this conflict? That is hypocrisy for you? What an outright terrible clusterfeck of a post. Be ashamed of yourself and get some perspective.
Click to expand...

Neither of these posts discussing his Palestine views make you look any better. If anything, you have used his views about Palestine as argument why Bayern wanted to sell him without giving any shit to Bayern. In other posts you just have mostly tried to justify and question other things and details when Germany or the club was criticised, or tried to justify why his views on Palestine were bad. Absolute hypocrisy.


HTG said:
I do also think that he would have been a candidate for a sale even without the statement. But the statement certainly helped to arrive at the conclusion. The club had a choice who to sell. There were Stanisic and Boey, who basically never had any scandals surrounding them. Then there was the homophobe Mazraoui, prone to injuries, who’s statement enraged the central council for Jews. It made the choice much easier for the club. In regards to his homophobia, I do very much agree with the sentiment. The statement regarding Palestine was handled very badly, however.
Click to expand...

HTG said:
Nope. Mazraoui was specifically asked to make a statement of acceptance and refused to do so. Our fans weren’t asked to do that. If there was an organised event or movement in support of Palestine and our fans would refuse to participate, you’d have a point. This way, you don’t.
But nice try nonetheless.
Click to expand...

HTG said:
I'm ok with both. But I reserve myself the right to be critical towards what is being said and how it is being said. Giving people the option to express themselves is important. But it is also important to understand that this in no way absolves anyone from criticism, or consequences even. So in case of Mazraoui, I absolutely believe he should have the right to state what he believes in. But this does not mean that I'm not going to be critical of his views. And I'm incredibly critical of those.
Not because he voiced sympathy for the civilians in Palestine. I believe that is justified and actually share this sympathy. The issue here was this part of the statement:
"God, help our oppressed brothers in Palestine to achieve victory". Considering the two parties at war, the Hamas and Israel, this statement very, very likely constitutes support for the actions of the Hamas, as they are the ones fighting and trying to achieve victory. This is a problematic statement, as it can be interpreted in a way that denies the right of Israel to exist. It is especially problematic if you make this statement as a Bayern player. The club has a strong Jewish past. Former club president and honorary president Kurt Landauer was actually imprisoned at Dachau, in the aftermath of the November pogroms, for example. This strongly influences the values Bayern as a club and community conducts itself by (or should conduct itself by). So voicing an opinion like the one Mazraoui voiced, was always going to be an issue, as it is completely contrary to what Bayern (claims to) stand(s) for. And as a private institution, Bayern have every right to ask questions about an opinion like this.
Now in the end it is very important to me to point out, that as of right now, Mazraoui has not been penalized in any way I know of. He has been asked to clarify his statement and did so. He has then clearly stated to condemn any form of terrorism. While I have a hard time to believing this to be true, I acknowledge that this statement must be enough in order to justify keeping him at the club. My doubts about his honesty extend beyond this issue and stem from his conduct before these events. But the statement in itself is acceptable. Bayern have accepted it. Nobody was punished, nobody's right to free speech was infringed on. Mazraoui didn't have to clarify anything and was free to stand by his words. He choose not to and clarified them.
Click to expand...
Where did the club publicly support the murder of little children?
Click to expand...
 
Amar__ said:
Neither of these posts discussing his Palestine views make you look any better. If anything, you have used his views about Palestine as argument why Bayern wanted to sell him without giving any shit to Bayern. In other posts you just have mostly tried to justify and question other things and details when Germany or the club was criticised, or tried to justify why his views on Palestine were bad. Absolute hypocrisy.
Click to expand...
I criticized that in the very first post you quoted. So I'm done with you.
 
HTG said:
I criticized that in the very first post you quoted. So I'm done with you.
Click to expand...

What a criticism :lol:

To be fair I would escape it in your case too, it makes you look really bad. Anyway, I am done with this thread too.
 
Amar__ said:
What a criticism :lol:

To be fair I would escape it in your case too, it makes you look really bad. Anyway, I am done with this thread too.
Click to expand...
Good contribution lad. Come in, make some half-thought out points which are at best tangentially related to the thread, and not even true, or fair. Then ignore other posts addressed directly to you, and then 'leave' as though you're the one who has been given a hard time.
 
Bole Top said:
for those that don't have time to watch the whole video, it starts past 38th minute..

Click to expand...


Absolutely spot on here. This should really be all that needs to be said and it's exactly how the FA and clubs should approach things. Making things mandatory doesn't help one bit and is only causing unnecessary issues between clubs ,players and fans as well as politicizing football at the same time.

Host and promote the amazing campaigns and leave it to the individuals id they take part or not. As Rio said then you can see who is on pting out and you can ask the question why and then have a conversation about it. A far better approach than what is happening now.

At the same time this once again exposes the hypocrisy from religions who teach about compassion, tolerance, helping others, loving thy neighbours etc.....

I still for the life of me struggle to understand how or why what others do can upset and offend people so much to the point many spend their lives just full of hate or actively working to stop them and using religion as the reason why. It's especially strange if it doesn't actually effect them personally. Politics has become like a religion to many too, and I can see why many fight against it.

The main difference for me is anyone considered liberal or on the left who is fighting for equality for all, women, gays, trans, other races and religions etc is a threat because it diminishes the control and ultimately gives people the freedom to think for themselves and be accepted for that. People want equality for all so everyone is treated equally. Whereas many of those on the right want the control, want women as baby making machines at home cooking and cleaning etc they don't want to accept or acknowledge gay or trans rights as in their eyes it's another step away from their beliefs.

So much for live and let live and all men (and women) being created equal.....

I'm 50 and up until a decade ago I felt we as a world we're making strong inroads in to achieving acceptance and equality for so many groups and races and genders, but I feel over the last 10 years despite some advances here and there I think overall we have taken larger steps backwards than forwards to the point it's got so toxic and divisive that it's goiing to take decades more to ever truly get it all for the majority of the world.
 
HTG said:
You are lacking any perspective on the struggle of queer people. Completely. The club asked its players to show the world that it stands for the believe that all people are equal and shouldn’t face discrimination. Because queer people are being discriminated and suffer due to it worldwide, but also in England and especially within football. They are being discriminated so badly, that not a single player in that league has ever felt save enough to publicly stand by their homosexuality. They are being forced to hide their true personality every day, every hour and every second of their public lives and parts of their private lives. This is an absolutely horrible way to live one’s life. It’s inhumane and can make you sick.
The club asked its players to make a small gesture in support of the idea that queer people should be allowed and able to live life like everyone else. They didn’t ask for any political ideology to be promoted. Just a small gesture of humanity. That was it.
As football clubs are much more than businesses and serve as social and cultural institutions, they not only have the right to ask their players to stand for basic human rights and dignity, they have a responsibility to do so. At least if they intend on acting socially responsible.
United‘s mistake wasn’t to ask its players to show this incredibly small gesture that conveys an idea that should be the most normal thing in the world. Their mistake was to stand idly by as the team decided to side with discrimination instead of humanity and basic decency.
As a queer person myself, my disappointment with United is gigantic. The biggest sport club in England has refused to publicly stand by basic human decency in order to appease the radical and inhumane convictions of a single player.
And yet, you criticise them for asking Mazraoui to be a decent person to begin with. It’s mind boggling really and I struggle to maintain respect for you.
Click to expand...
I am happy that we support the same club. And the same causes. Thank you for being vocal in here.
 
BD said:
Good contribution lad. Come in, make some half-thought out points which are at best tangentially related to the thread, and not even true, or fair.
Click to expand...

I fully explained why I criticised those posters. Neither of them put any criticism whatsoever to other sides involved(their club, their country, etc) regarding different matters re Mazraoui(who is the subject of this thread) but decided to go full on United player and Manchester United for this topic alone and ignore everything else that Mazraoui was also involved when it was their own club and ignored how he wasn't allowed his freedom of speech. And not just that, but they also used it as one of the arguments why he was sold, and whenever someone criticised them they actually defended their club and country without any criticism.

You can blame me for going slightly off topic, but you cannot accuse me of lying. What's not true about that, please point out?

BD said:
Then ignore other posts addressed directly to you, and then 'leave' as though you're the one who has been given a hard time.
Click to expand...

Which posts did I ignore?
 
Amar__ said:
What a criticism :lol:

To be fair I would escape it in your case too, it makes you look really bad. Anyway, I am done with this thread too.
Click to expand...

Mazraoui is completely right on the topic of Israel vs Palestine. Bayern, and the German establishment generally, are second only to the US when it comes to their blind support of Israel.

What do you think of Mazraoui's years long campaign against anything pro-LGBT+?
 
Amar__ said:
I fully explained why I criticised those posters. Neither of them put any criticism whatsoever to other sides involved(their club, their country, etc) regarding different matters re Mazraoui(who is the subject of this thread) but decided to go full on United player and Manchester United for this topic alone and ignore everything else that Mazraoui was also involved when it was their own club and ignored how he wasn't allowed his freedom of speech. And not just that, but they also used it as one of the arguments why he was sold, and whenever someone criticised them they actually defended their club and country without any criticism.

You can blame me for going slightly off topic, but you cannot accuse me of lying. What's not true about that, please point out?
Click to expand...
The part with "the most vocal posters are German/Bayern...". There has been plenty of discussion from others - from different countries, from supporters of United and other clubs. But anyway, that's getting into semantics - you probably just meant "some of the most...". Grand.

I guess I just found it a bit annoying that you used the (potential) hypocrisy of a minority of the posters in here to seemingly downplay the points that are being made by people in the thread in general. Maybe that's not what you were at, but it did seem that way. (and I was annoyed after the loss, so was in a bit of a mood)

Amar__ said:
Which posts did I ignore?
Click to expand...
Apologies, I somehow missed your reply to Benito.
 
nickm said:
Because it was a token gesture, ie "a small or unimportant action or thing that is intended to show feelings or intentions that may not be sincere."

Don't do token gestures.
Click to expand...
They're all token gestures.
Be it the poppy every November. Be it the anti racism protests. Be it the Ukraine flags after years of pandering to Russian billionaires who were best mates with Putin.

As I said a few days ago, I would have argued each of these things was personal choice and should have been left up to individual players. But they haven't. Clubs have backed most of these things. Because of seemingly one player, we chos not to get involved with this "token gesture" and that's fecking awful.

As I've also already said, homophobia is the last acceptable form of prejudice in the eyes of a worryingly high percentage of the population (from all backgrounds.)
 
nickm said:
Because it was a token gesture, ie "a small or unimportant action or thing that is intended to show feelings or intentions that may not be sincere."

Don't do token gestures.
Click to expand...
In this case your argument against what you see as token gestures is that they may expose actual issues?
 
langster said:
Absolutely spot on here. This should really be all that needs to be said and it's exactly how the FA and clubs should approach things. Making things mandatory doesn't help one bit and is only causing unnecessary issues between clubs ,players and fans as well as politicizing football at the same time.

Host and promote the amazing campaigns and leave it to the individuals id they take part or not. As Rio said then you can see who is on pting out and you can ask the question why and then have a conversation about it. A far better approach than what is happening now.

At the same time this once again exposes the hypocrisy from religions who teach about compassion, tolerance, helping others, loving thy neighbours etc.....

I still for the life of me struggle to understand how or why what others do can upset and offend people so much to the point many spend their lives just full of hate or actively working to stop them and using religion as the reason why. It's especially strange if it doesn't actually effect them personally. Politics has become like a religion to many too, and I can see why many fight against it.

The main difference for me is anyone considered liberal or on the left who is fighting for equality for all, women, gays, trans, other races and religions etc is a threat because it diminishes the control and ultimately gives people the freedom to think for themselves and be accepted for that. People want equality for all so everyone is treated equally. Whereas many of those on the right want the control, want women as baby making machines at home cooking and cleaning etc they don't want to accept or acknowledge gay or trans rights as in their eyes it's another step away from their beliefs.

So much for live and let live and all men (and women) being created equal.....

I'm 50 and up until a decade ago I felt we as a world we're making strong inroads in to achieving acceptance and equality for so many groups and races and genders, but I feel over the last 10 years despite some advances here and there I think overall we have taken larger steps backwards than forwards to the point it's got so toxic and divisive that it's goiing to take decades more to ever truly get it all for the majority of the world.
Click to expand...

Indeed and it's depressing. I don't know for sure what has caused western society to regress so much in the last decade, no doubt there have been outside influences from other parts of the world. But I think social media has played a big part in it in my opinion.
 
like it was ever about the jackets. what we're having now is similar to when two kids are fighting over who do parents love more. they don't want to hear they love them both equally.

the main and only issue here, as I've previously said, is unreasonable expectation of Manchester United to be a perfect ally that is only going to look after interests of one particular group that some on here personally happen to support. and because that didn't happen, some are acting like United betrayed them. but the fact is, United as club actually regularly pay respect to lgbtq community, have been doing that for years and will continue to do so.

we have a muslim player now that also happens to be the type not willing to get involved in these actions. fair enough. his request got respected as well, while our captain wore the rainbow armband as usual.

but suddenly United's support isn't good enough anymore, because that support doesn't seem complete when it is shared. that is the root of all disappointment for some people, not in United not paying respect to gay community (which they've done as always), but in Maz getting his choice respected as well. that much is obvious.
 
Bole Top said:
like it was ever about the jackets. what we're having now is similar to when two kids are fighting over who do parents love more. they don't want to hear they love them both equally.

the main and only issue here, as I've previously said, is unreasonable expectation of Manchester United to be a perfect ally that is only going to look after interests of one particular group that some on here personally happen to support. and because that didn't happen, some are acting like United betrayed them. but the fact is, United as club actually regularly pay respect to lgbtq community, have been doing that for years and will continue to do so.

we have a muslim player now that also happens to be the type not willing to get involved in these actions. fair enough. his request got respected as well, while our captain wore the rainbow armband as usual.

but suddenly United's support isn't good enough anymore, because that support doesn't seem complete when it is shared. that is the root of all disappointment for some people, not in United not paying respect to gay community (which they've done as always), but in Maz getting his choice respected as well. that much is obvious.
Click to expand...
You're treating this thread like a personal blog at this point. You're not adding anything you haven't already said multiple times and you're not responding to or interacting with anyone.
 
moses said:
You're treating this thread like a personal blog at this point. You're not adding anything you haven't already said multiple times and you're responding to or interacting with anyone.
Click to expand...

wasn't aware there's post limit. noted.
 
Bole Top said:
then don't bother about how often I post here since you have twice as many and you seem to be treating this thread as personal blog at this point.
Click to expand...

No, you're missing the point. Which is odd because I did elaborate. It's not about how frequently you post.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.