LGBTQ+ inclusion and Religion Debate in Football

This was always going to be a shit show. It shouldn't be lost on people the irony of Premier League footballers being pressured to wear rainbow flags when there has literally been no player willing to live openly as a gay man in the league. The players collectively and the Premier League are the last people who should be making a public gesture about supporting LGBT people. They should focus on stopping being meatheads themselves.
 
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Make them wear it for the rest of the season. Mazraoui wants to be a bigot then he can deal with the consequences. Manchester Untied should support LGBT inclusion.
 
I said this in the thread in the football forum, but I think the issue here is we are past the point as a society in this country of seeing it as acceptable to discrimiate againt someone based on their sexuality.

Not everyone's opinions on it might be in line with that, but you can say the same thing about racism. Racism is wrong but there are still racists. It doesn't mean its ok or that we as a society should have to go backwards to tolerate that some people don't accept the idea of not being racist. There is no difference with LGBT. It is wrong to discriminate based on this. We have laws specifically clarifying this.

Religion isn't an acceptable excuse to discriminate against people in 2024. A person is entitled to their religious beliefs and faith, but if they are captain of a premier league football club, and those beliefs come into conflict with supporting equality, then they should not be captain of a premier league football club. Or at least not at any time where it brings the two into conflict.

Mazrouri is a bit different imo as he has not done anything to try and draw attention to the matter and nor has the club put him in a position to. A journalist has decided to do that. BUT, even then it still highlights that there is a problem. If you are playing for Man United and are a member of the LGBT community, you're not exactly going to feel comfortable beng open about that after all your team mates band together to protect someone who doesn't support your right to exist. THis is something I think people need to think about more.

This is also actually why these kinds of gestures are important ven though they can seem meaningless. It is forcing the issue out into the open and with that you start to see why members of the LGBT community can still feel victimised or uncomfortable even being open about who they are...and I don't think people should be trying to defend the things that cause this unless we want to start going backwards.
 
Who should be pushing for social change—athletes or clubs? Honestly, it feels like it should be both. Clubs can set the tone and create an environment that supports human rights, but athletes bring the heart. When a player speaks up or takes a stand, it feels authentic because it’s coming from them, not some polished corporate statement.

But what about when players say no—for personal or religious reasons? Forcing someone to participate isn’t really in the spirit of inclusion, is it? The whole point is to foster understanding, not create tension or divide the team. If anything, that just makes things worse. The focus should stay on the bigger picture. A club or league can lead the charge for change without forcing every single player to fall in line 100%. It's just not possible.

Let’s face it, human rights issues are complex and not everyone will see eye-to-eye on every thing. And that’s okay. The goal in sports—and in life—isn’t to get everything perfect. It’s about moving forward and creating space for progress.
 
caid said:
Make them wear it for the rest of the season. Mazraoui wants to be a bigot then he can deal with the consequences. Manchester Untied should support LGBT inclusion.
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Great liberal idea force players to wear things they don't want.
 
HTG said:
Nope. Mazraoui was specifically asked to make a statement of acceptance and refused to do so. Our fans weren’t asked to do that. If there was an organised event or movement in support of Palestine and our fans would refuse to participate, you’d have a point. This way, you don’t.
But nice try nonetheless.
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Not that it would've ever, ever happened, especially now.

You also should understand that it's not the Bayern fans I'm criticizing but the club.

P-Ro said:
This was always going to be a shit show. It shouldn't be lost on people the irony of Premier League footballers being pressured to wear rainbow flags when there has literally been no player willing to live openly as a gay man in the league. The players collectively and the Premier League are the last people who should be making a public gesture about supporting LGBT people. They should focus on stop being meatheads themselves.
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Amen to that.
 
dubplate warrior said:
It's new staff in the coaching staff and I highly doubt it's been leaked by one of them
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People always blame the same handful of players. Sources can be found all over from the directors' box to folk in marketing, kitsmen, groundstaff or whoever.
It's like the Rebekah Vardy case didn't teach people anything.
 
The Firestarter said:
Great liberal idea force players to wear things they don't want.
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I didn't say anything about forcing. I presume Mazraoui wont. Manchester United supports LGBT people. You want to represent the club then you will too. The club is bigger than any individual. Its a dumb argument anyway, they're forced to wear a red jersey every week.
 
caid said:
I didn't say anything about forcing. I presume Mazraoui wont. Manchester United supports LGBT people. You want to represent the club then you should too. Its a dumb argument anyway, they're forced to wear a red jersey every week.
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No they are not. They came to the club and said shirt on their own volition.
 
P-Ro said:
This was always going to be a shit show. It shouldn't be lost on people the irony of Premier League footballers being pressured to wear rainbow flags when there has literally been no player willing to live openly as a gay man in the league. The players collectively and the Premier League are the last people who should be making a public gesture about supporting LGBT people. They should focus on stopping being meatheads themselves.
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Absolutely spot on. Feels very LGBT+ flags on American F15s.

Whilst the pride flag is positive, corporations using it to be seen as inclusive rather than actually being inclusive can get in the bin.
 
It always baffles me that people are happy to jump on somebody for their beliefs and defend somebody else because they are being marginalised.

I think it is a bad decision by the Premier League regards and ill conceived, there are many faiths and beliefs which would have an issue with wearing the jacket or armband.

Maz and anyone else should just have the option to not wear something they believe clashes with their belief system.

For the record I don't care, am I all inclusion and have no agenda, I am atheist but I strongly believe in freedom of thought, religion and belief, even if I find those beliefs etc. reprehensible on a personal level.

As long as Maz does not treat any person differently because of who they are then it is his business and he certainly should not be forced to wear something which clashes with his beliefs.
 
Eriku said:
Ooh, look at Jonathan Swift with his modest proposal. Glad you included the /s, seeing how subtle it was.
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Yeah. I have the same religion as Mazraoui and despite that I don't share the same belief as him and many others. I agree the discriminations that LBGTQ+ communities facing is serious issues and it should be taken seriously. They deserved all the support and love. Maz decided not to wear a rainbow jacket is stupid but again unfortunately his view and mine don't align and I wont defend that.

But I also recognize how the western society reacts to the genocide that is currently happening in Gaza. Sure its a separate issue all together, but if one can have opinion on 1 issue and silence on the other then I can have doubt on what kind morality those people standing on.
 
MancunianAngels said:
Various supporters of LGBTQ movements are often first to the "frontline" when it comes to supporting refugees from the West's foreign policy. They're first to organise protests and collections for Palestine. They'd be the first to stand with other groups like BLM.

Mazraoui, Moorsy et al would do well to remember that. Showing the smallest amount of solidarity with others is all that was asked.
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interesting choice of name dropping given that Guehi’s defacing of the armband is the most high-profile case in this debacle.

That was England’s first choice CB in the Euros this summer btw.
 
Maz can wear what he likes. The entire clubs policy being dictated by one shithead player is what I take issue with.
 
bosnian_red said:
I'm not trying to throw the Bayern fan base under the bus, I know lots of the fans aren't of the same opinion, moreso that across the Bundesliga loads of clubs were acting strongly against any support of Palestine which was insanity (like that one player whose contract was terminated). More the official organization level stance more than the fan stance
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I 100% agree with you.
 
Jippy said:
People always blame the same handful of players. Sources can be found all over from the directors' box to folk in marketing, kitsmen, groundstaff or whoever.
It's like the Rebekah Vardy case didn't teach people anything.
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I'm proud to say it taught me nothing other than she is Jamie Vardy's wife and doesn't get on with Wayne's missus.
 
caid said:
Maz can wear what he likes. The entire clubs policy being dictated by one shithead player is what I take issue with.
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You are thinking the club changed policy. In fact it was the players who decided. Surely they can decide what they like ?
 
The Firestarter said:
Sure, like any other club. If the shirt was by default rainbow colored be certain Maz would not have transferred here.
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If he feels that strongly then he can put in a transfer request. Go play for a team who better represent his bigotry.
 
That_Bloke said:
I don't share Mazraoui's views and would be the last to defend them, but living in Germany and having witnessed the general hysteria about Gaza, I'm personally certain that it's his support for Palestine that played the decisive role in your club selling him.
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I would agree with this. His support for Palestine wasn’t the only reason but maybe just the straw that broke the camel’s back. Personally I had more issues with his stance on LGBT rights and him ignoring doctors and missing many games as a result.
 
The Firestarter said:
You are thinking the club changed policy. In fact it was the players who decided. Surely they can decide what they like ?
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Not at manchester united, no. If were an anti LGBT club now then i'm not a supporter anymore.
 
The Firestarter said:
You are thinking the club changed policy. In fact it was the players who decided. Surely they can decide what they like ?
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If the club told them to wear something because it's club policy to support the lgbtq community and they decided not to, then they forced the club to change their policy.
 
caid said:
Maz can wear what he likes. The entire clubs policy being dictated by one shithead player is what I take issue with.
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Same. I'm all for people making their own choices and facing the consequences of those choices, even if in this instance it wouldn't have been much more than "Oh he's a bit of a dick. Shame"

The mountain did not need to move for Mazraoui but for some reason it did and now the whole club looks an even bigger dick.

My next fear is that someone shoves a microphone under one of our players noses tonight and they make it worse.
 
P-Ro said:
This was always going to be a shit show. It shouldn't be lost on people the irony of Premier League footballers being pressured to wear rainbow flags when there has literally been no player willing to live openly as a gay man in the league. The players collectively and the Premier League are the last people who should be making a public gesture about supporting LGBT people. They should focus on stopping being meatheads themselves.
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Or the PL should use their TV ads to promote LGBT support and not put individual actors in strange positions.
 
caid said:
If he feels that strongly then he can put in a transfer request. Go play for a team who better represent his bigotry.
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How is he a bigot for standing by his religious beliefs?

Is he demanding that the club cease all activities associated with supporting the LGBTQ community? No he isn’t. He’s quietly decided that he doesn’t want to participate.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Oh feck off with this shit.

Of course it's a story that United cancelled a pro LGBT+ event because one of its players refuses to show support for gay people. It's media's duty to write about it, they would be utterly failing their jobs if they didn't, and it's good that they're doing it.
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What event was cancelled exactly? The only thing that didn't happen was the wearing of a fecking tracksuit due a player's personal choice.
 
NotoriousISSY said:
interesting choice of name dropping given that Guehi’s defacing of the armband is the most high-profile case in this debacle.

That was England’s first choice CB in the Euros this summer btw.
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I'd genuinely forgotten I'd ever seen that yesterday.

The current England squad have regularly stood up for various social causes. It's shite how, again, he couldn't even just leave the armband alone for the smallest act of solidarity.
 
caid said:
Its forbidden in every religion. Most people have recognised it as bolox and moved on.
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Most people haven't. My personal experience being clause to members of LGBT youth shelters is that a large portion of society "moved on" as long as it doesn't concern their children or a member of their family otherwise they will be happy to banish them.
 
I knew there had to be a flaw somewhere. What a scumbag. Feck anyone who thinks other people deserve fewer rights because of sexuality/gender/race. If part of your religious freedom is depriving others of freedom, you no longer deserve religious freedom.
 
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