I suppose these two players are the one's Moyes said he was working on.
Leighton Baines
- Thread starter ::sonny::
- Start date
Posted this in the Fellaini thread, would be more pertinent in here: -
Anyway, regarding Baines, I posted in the Twitter thread in response to someone saying he was not needed as he is just a minimal upgrade on Evra, but the post was deleted (and me subsequently banned!)
In anycase, I think that people overlook the full-back position or at least oversimplify the importance of the role. Personally, I think Baines has the abillity to transform our entire team. The fact that his productivity is the equal of most decent wingers from a full-back area allows us greater flexibility in the requirements we have from the person who lines up in front of him. It has been said many times that Moyes prefers to play a creative midfielder on the left, and the delivery of Baines meant that Pienaar could just focus on doing his thing at Everton. The pair of them were often referred to as the best left-side in the League, and it's all about balance.
Playing Baines behind Shinji, for example, allows Shinji to operate centrally (or Rooney even) and still have a consistent quality of supply from left. Similarly to how a Dani Alves totally transforms Barca's team, I think Baines could do a similar job for us, and I think he'd be a clear upgrade on Evra. I know he has put in a couple of good crosses that have led to goals (Wigan and Swansea) this season, but the amount of times he finds himself in a great position and can't get it off the ground is considerable.
It is probably not an exaggeration to say that Everton's teamw as structured around the strengths of Baines to a large degree. So while I know he is 'just a full-back', his contibution to the balance of the team is huge.
Anyway, regarding Baines, I posted in the Twitter thread in response to someone saying he was not needed as he is just a minimal upgrade on Evra, but the post was deleted (and me subsequently banned!)
In anycase, I think that people overlook the full-back position or at least oversimplify the importance of the role. Personally, I think Baines has the abillity to transform our entire team. The fact that his productivity is the equal of most decent wingers from a full-back area allows us greater flexibility in the requirements we have from the person who lines up in front of him. It has been said many times that Moyes prefers to play a creative midfielder on the left, and the delivery of Baines meant that Pienaar could just focus on doing his thing at Everton. The pair of them were often referred to as the best left-side in the League, and it's all about balance.
Playing Baines behind Shinji, for example, allows Shinji to operate centrally (or Rooney even) and still have a consistent quality of supply from left. Similarly to how a Dani Alves totally transforms Barca's team, I think Baines could do a similar job for us, and I think he'd be a clear upgrade on Evra. I know he has put in a couple of good crosses that have led to goals (Wigan and Swansea) this season, but the amount of times he finds himself in a great position and can't get it off the ground is considerable.
It is probably not an exaggeration to say that Everton's teamw as structured around the strengths of Baines to a large degree. So while I know he is 'just a full-back', his contibution to the balance of the team is huge.
Have Monaco renewed their interest in Evra then?
I like many others rationalised the opening bid with the assumption that Paddy was off for one last hurrah at his old club, yet here we are approaching the end of August with him looking quite comfortable where he is.
Admittedly Evra has been short of a proper back-up over the years, although i don't suppose he anticipated filling that role due to the arrival of Baines.
I like many others rationalised the opening bid with the assumption that Paddy was off for one last hurrah at his old club, yet here we are approaching the end of August with him looking quite comfortable where he is.
Admittedly Evra has been short of a proper back-up over the years, although i don't suppose he anticipated filling that role due to the arrival of Baines.
Hope this doesn't happen. Evra was arguably as good as Baines last season, and is Uniteds captain. Why would we want to get rid or replace him, when by the time he's gone Fabio could probably be ready to take over? If we're dead set on getting a left back I'd rather go for Shaw as well. No point in signing Baines who is only like 3 years younger.
Agree with some of the points made there. He is the best full back in the league for me for one reason - the amount of chances he creates. I think there was a stat a good way into last season that he had created more goalscoring chances than anyone in the league - impressive whichever way you look at it.
People underplay the significance of full backs, especially in certain systems. Baines is a player who can offer a real threat going forward and in a better side, with better and more threatening players around him he should get more space and be able to have a big say in games. His dead ball threat is also significant.
Luke Shaw looks a good player - but isnt ready to be regular in a top side, so I dont see that he'd be keen to leave Southampton where he does start. He'd also cost a lot more than Baines.
I see what you mean and its a valid argument up to a point. I just dont think Moyes will alter our style that much to see Baines be the influence here that he currently is at Everton.
Evra's pace and direct style suits us and our system a lot better. There nothing between them defensively. They both have similar weaknesses actually.
I think Shaw at Southampton looks a better fit in terms of style and profile.
Coentrao is one of the best on that side.
Well I do think Moyes would ideally like a more central-minded player on our left-side. i think between Kagawa and Evra, the delivery from our left wouldn't be good enough.
Why does he have to alter the style of play? We already play with width and give the full backs a chance to get forward.
Ok. Where is this from?
Everton were specifically set up to take advantage of Baines attributes. United should never be.....
Evra's attacking style is totally different to that of Baines. Suits playing with a winger far better.
Official Everton statement.
I thought Vidic was our captain?
So the bid was £28 million for Baines and Fellaini?
If so, I think a bid of around £30-£35 million would get them both.
Whether or not that represents value I'm not sure.
No denying that they are both good players, although I must admit I would prefer Fellaini to Baines just because I think he will be an absolute machine at United.
If so, I think a bid of around £30-£35 million would get them both.
Whether or not that represents value I'm not sure.
No denying that they are both good players, although I must admit I would prefer Fellaini to Baines just because I think he will be an absolute machine at United.
Insulting? Over reacting bitches!!
This does put pressure on the United's management(whoever is involved in transfers). As this shows we did bid for Fellainin and Baines. If we fail to land these two, it will show them in poor light.
Getting two players from a non UCL team, whose manager from last season has now moved to us, and with whom our relationship(transfers wise) has been OK, especially when they will be moving from Liverpool to Manchester(not from fecking Ibiza or the Vegas strip), should not be the toughest thing in the world. If they are not able to pull this off, I will start to worry about the people in the important positions.
Getting two players from a non UCL team, whose manager from last season has now moved to us, and with whom our relationship(transfers wise) has been OK, especially when they will be moving from Liverpool to Manchester(not from fecking Ibiza or the Vegas strip), should not be the toughest thing in the world. If they are not able to pull this off, I will start to worry about the people in the important positions.
Surely Evra wants out? Otherwise this is such a big slap in his face, that it's frankly embarrassing!
We don't actually play with a left winger though, and haven't since Giggs started aging. Every player since, Ronaldo, Young and Nani are right footed players who cut inside and create space for an overlapping fullback. What Moyes prefers with his tactics are that the fullback crosses earlier and usually from deeper to give the defence less opportunity to set up. We've have predominantly played more intricately around the box on the left which is Evra's strength. Baines has excellent delivery from wide areas and Evra cannot play over 60 matches with such physically demanding tactics. Buttner isn't good enough yet (may never be) and last time I checked we wanted to win everything. We have four top class forwards, why not two top class left backs?
I think Evra has discussed going back to France to finish his career and may go if Baines comes in, although I believe both will be utilised this season and then it provides a more seamless transition if Evra leaves next summer.
Too many things these days are embarrassing around here. How embarrassing!!!!
I don't really want Baines but why is Coentrao rated so highly on the Caf? Real Madrid paid an absolute shitload of money for him and he never came close to justifying that. He never really showed that he's anything special.
Has anyone considered Alex Buttners feelings in all this.?
He was quality for Portugal in South Africa, my player of the tournament. But looks like it could be the classic case of player massively over performing at the big stage, earning his big money move and failing to ever recapture the form that earned the move in the first place.
Its because he is one of them fancy foreigners. (Probably really is the reason)
One thing with Baines is that I could see him fitting into the side very easily
He's at the biggest club in the world, we go after good players. He's lucky to be here already.
I can see the argument and im sure if Evra got injured etc he'd prove a great asset. Its just the age profile and the fact the Evra is still going strong. Its deosnt add up in some ways.
I just think it would be highly unusual to have two seasoned pro's in that postion, especially given the transfer fee.
Maybe my thinking is based on what I think our former manager would have done
And a United fan at that, he's probably fecking delighted to be in the squad alone.
I don't find our bids for Fabregas embarrassing - a waste of time, yes, but not embarrassing.
But if we're going to piss on a club legend and our vice captain by buying Baines and placing Evra on the bench, then I'd call it embarrassing behavior, given Evra is still one of the best left backs in the world.
But I am almost certain Evra wants back to France. Which removes the embarrassment.
He's currently crying in bed. Well, he thinks he's in bed - he's actually on the kitchen table.
Think you're right here. He's just been out so much these last few seasons I got used to Evra as captain.
Like many have said, this only makes sense if Evra is leaving. Even then, I'd rather we buy Luke Shaw.
Experienced players will be needed in the team very soon, specially in the defense, if Evra leaves, hence going after an experienced player.
We have Oviedo who hasn't really been given a consistent chance to prove himself given that Baines is so important.
We were linked with him too last summer before we signed Buttner.
How is Luke Garbutt progressing?
I think he can be a good player, it's just his defensive game (as it always is with fullbacks these days) that needs worked on greatly. Think he should go out on loan again as the one at Cheltenham did him the world of good.
If we really do sign Baines, then I guess Evra would be leaving. And I don't want Evra to leave. So I hope we don't sign Baines.