Leighton Baines

The fact Evra is supposed to stay left me kind of confused (though to be fair we wouldn't announce to the world he's going anyway), much like this entire transfer window. We're said to be working on stuff, we've no idea what actually went on with Thiago, we don't know what's going on with Baines, or Garay, if at all, and there aren't really any other names seriously linked. Is it possible this day and age that we're working on deals that no one knows about? I've never really believed smokescreen theories but this window is just too weird.
 
You just need to watch Everton to see that Baines isn't that good as defender. Miles behind Evra and Cole at their peak. And not so much better than last season Evra, defending wise. With Rafa on the opposite site as attacking fullback, I prefer our LB to be a better defender than attacking. If only Coleman can be converted to LB, I would prefer him to Baines, tbh.
 
Rossa said:
Where did I write that Evra was leaps and bounds ahead of Baines? I said I considered him better in defense in reply to your argument that Baines was about as good defensively as fullbacks come these days, to which I disagree and stats support me on in addition to my own observations. I said I think Fabio can become better than Evra defensively because looking at his twin brother he is already getting there with some very solid defensive displays. I'm not saying that Fabio will be better, but that he may become better - is that too for of a stretch?



Baines may have been the best LB in the league, but arguments will always be had. I saw a discussion of that with stats included that showed that there really wasn't much in it between Cole, Baines and Evra if you included defending and attacking. Cole was the best defender, Baines the best attacker with Evra in the middle of both.

I know that Moyes prefers for his fullbacks to provide width, which is fine. However, teams will play us differently, more on the counter than they did Everton, and imo Baines isn't quick enough to cover enough grounds getting back - there can be no denying that he is lacking a bit of pace compared to the rest of the best, do you not agree? You have also given no account as to why he is such a good defender. I said he has fewer blocks, fewer successful tackles, oh and fewer interceptions and isn't as good a header. How does that make him better defensively, and do not think for a moment that his even more advanced playing style will not leave him "more out of position" than Evra already is (an argument which is a bit silly for an attacking fullback anyhow).

Also, why not argue without sounding like a prick and being all personal?
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Don't be silly, it's never personal (yet you're the one saying I sound like a prick, calm it down mate :lol:). If it sounded like it was then apologies mate.

Leaps and bounds was the wrong wording, instead you said he's a couple of levels below, which is still quite a big thing to try and claim considering how many United fan's have picked out Evra's defensive weakness over the last two seasons.

Originally I said Baines is almost as good as they come defensively. He's not THE BEST in that department, but he's good enough and get's the job done in an era where most of the top fullbacks are attack minded. Again, for me he's not far behind most of the top left back's in terms of defensive attributes.

There's not much in it between Evra/Baines over the last two seasons. Evra has a 3 percent higher tackle percentage and has made about an extra 30 tackles over the last two seasons. Baines has more interceptions. Baines made the most tackles of the Everton backline last season too, not too shabby for a guy that you're claiming is below average defensively.

Going forward they're slightly different. Evra likes to take the man on more while Baines loves to put crosses in. Baines creates way more chances as we obviously know too. Ultimately I actually feel something we've lacked over the last couple of seasons is a player out wide consistently putting in crosses. Last season we spent the most portion with our wingers out of form and nowhere near as many balls coming into the box as we'd possibly of liked. Something else Baines can bring to the table with Raf doing it from the right too, both providing the right width if we sacrificed the wingers.

On the Cole front, wasn't Baines stats better last season? Higher success rate for his tackles and more interceptions (Top ten in the league in terms of tackle percentage last season. Again, not bad for a guy that you just said was below average defensively). As I said though, you shouldn't judge it solely on stats.

IF we're basing it on stats, Baines isn't below average defensively. He's a good defensive left back. Then, if we're basing it on stats, offensively he's fantastic. As I've repeated countless times though, stats don't tell the full story. The stats say he's a quality left back. Watching him says he's a quality left back. 28 years old too, which is a fine age where he should be hitting his peak and still have a good amount of years at top level. Now's pretty much the perfect time to buy Baines. In the form of his life, played every single second of every league game last season and is as consistent as they come.

Genuinely I don't believe some people will realise how good he is until he's playing for us, if he ever does. And again, I don't mean to come across as a prick, just a big fan of the guy and followed him for a good amount of years now.
 
Papers suggesting we will try and get Guilherme Siqueira for £4 million if Baines leaves, which would suggest a large chunk would be used elsewhere...most likely McCarthy. But if United won't budge to above £15 million it will never happen.
 
JP77 said:
Don't be silly, it's never personal (yet you're the one saying I sound like a prick, calm it down mate :lol:). If it sounded like it was then apologies mate.

Leaps and bounds was the wrong wording, instead you said he's a couple of levels below, which is still quite a big thing to try and claim considering how many United fan's have picked out Evra's defensive weakness over the last two seasons.

Originally I said Baines is almost as good as they come defensively. He's not THE BEST in that department, but he's good enough and get's the job done in an era where most of the top fullbacks are attack minded. Again, for me he's not far behind most of the top left back's in terms of defensive attributes.

There's not much in it between Evra/Baines over the last two seasons. Evra has a 3 percent higher tackle percentage and has made about an extra 30 tackles over the last two seasons. Baines has more interceptions. Baines made the most tackles of the Everton backline last season too, not too shabby for a guy that you're claiming is below average defensively.

Going forward they're slightly different. Evra likes to take the man on more while Baines loves to put crosses in. Baines creates way more chances as we obviously know too. Ultimately I actually feel something we've lacked over the last couple of seasons is a player out wide consistently putting in crosses. Last season we spent the most portion with our wingers out of form and nowhere near as many balls coming into the box as we'd possibly of liked. Something else Baines can bring to the table with Raf doing it from the right too, both providing the right width if we sacrificed the wingers.

On the Cole front, wasn't Baines stats better last season? Higher success rate for his tackles and more interceptions (Top ten in the league in terms of tackle percentage last season. Again, not bad for a guy that you just said was below average defensively). As I said though, you shouldn't judge it solely on stats.

IF we're basing it on stats, Baines isn't below average defensively. He's a good defensive left back. Then, if we're basing it on stats, offensively he's fantastic. As I've repeated countless times though, stats don't tell the full story. The stats say he's a quality left back. Watching him says he's a quality left back. 28 years old too, which is a fine age where he should be hitting his peak and still have a good amount of years at top level. Now's pretty much the perfect time to buy Baines. In the form of his life, played every single second of every league game last season and is as consistent as they come.

Genuinely I don't believe some people will realise how good he is until he's playing for us, if he ever does. And again, I don't mean to come across as a prick, just a big fan of the guy and followed him for a good amount of years now.
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The fact that many United fans have picked out Evra's defensive frailties is yet another reason why I'm not convinced Baines is the answer. Evra bombs forward a lot, just like Baines does. At his prime, there were only a handful wingers, if that, who could outpace Evra, so he was able to make up grounds very quickly and get back into position. Baines doesn't have that speed, nor does he have Evra's current speed, so imo we would miss something there. We would also miss a lot in terms of aerial presence. Another thing that Evra has is an uncanny ability to drive his team forward from behind - I don't see the same in Baines.

What I see in Baines is a terrific left foot and some amazing crosses and set-pieces. However, do you think he would take set-pieces before RVP?
He is quite consistent though, and I'll give you that. It's just that against United, teams will play differently than they do Everton, lay lower and hope for the counter. Imo, Baines lacks pace for that kind of defending. He is by no account slow, he just isn't very quick either. I genuinly believe that is an aspect that you are overlooking, tbh.

However, all that said, if Evra is leaving, I would gladly take Baines for a decent sum. If Evra is not leaving, I don't think he will be an upgrade and subsequently I just don't see the point - both should be first team regulars, and that just won't work...
 
SilentWitness said:
Papers suggesting we will try and get Guilherme Siqueira for £4 million if Baines leaves, which would suggest a large chunk would be used elsewhere...most likely McCarthy. But if United won't budge to above £15 million it will never happen.
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Depends if Baines starts pushing for a deal, he won't get another opportunity like this.
 
More of a chance that tomorrow is a proper big signing then, as long as Woodward didn't fly back for Garay...
 
Sandikan said:
If Evra is staying, then that's a good call.
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Agreed. The best case scenario is Evra staying and Fabio and Buttner competing to succeed the wily Frenchman. I have no serious objections to Baines, however, except the price we'd have to pay for him. Given our other needs and the assumption we do not have unlimited funds, I just hope the chase for Baines ends quickly, if it hasn't already.
 
Yeah, I see no reason to not believe that. I mean, both clubs are based in England, he's an English player and United are currently in Australia so it makes sense that the Italian press would be the first to hear I suppose.
 
Carl said:
Yeah, I see no reason to not believe that. I mean, both clubs are based in England, he's an English player and United are currently in Australia so it makes sense that the Italian press would be the first to hear I suppose.
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I can go with that. :lol:
 
It was getting close to losing out,maybe this was the deal Woodward rushed home for.
 
Drifter said:
It was getting close to losing out,maybe this was the deal Woodward rushed home for.
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Nah moyes said that Woozza went home because he was going to negotiate the fabregas deal.
 
I really cannot understand our interest in Baines. He's not young, he's not much of an improvement on Evra (if an improvement at all,) and we have a great prospect in Fabio as well as a good squad player in Buttner in that position. Any money that we are considering spending on Baines should just be thrown into the Fabregas kitty, so we can make Barca an offer they can't refuse.
 
^^ Nob. I thought there'd been a bid / was an update after that bump.
 
Didn't they confirm a £12m rejected bid in the past?
 
Wow... surprised by the comments, I'd welcome Fellaini here, as things stand out of interest who would beat Fellaini in our starting XI to a spot? Since we're so happy he's not coming, he's obviously not starter material for our current midfield? Or is it because of the lack of PL experience? Hang on....

Fellaininio.... If he had never played in the EPL and was some Brazillian lad with the same record, you boys would be wetting your pants..
 
On the 1 hand I'm pleased because we don't need him but on the other.... WTF? :wenger:
 
Jaybezia said:
Wow... surprised by the comments, I'd welcome Fellaini here, as things stand out of interest who would beat Fellaini in our starting XI to a spot? Since we're so happy he's not coming, he's obviously not starter material for our current midfield? Or is it because of the lack of PL experience? Hang on....

Fellaininio.... If he had never played in the EPL and was some Brazillian lad with the same record, you boys would be wetting your pants..
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I still expect us to sign Fellaini but it'll probably happen once Moyes gets knocked back from Fabregas.
 
I'll be happy if we don't sign him. Quality player but Evra has still got time and I myself hope (as does everyone else), that Fabio can reach his brothers level, and as quickly as possible.
 
Jaybezia said:
Was there not something about his price rising after X date? I believe it was around end of the month...
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Yeh I've heard summat about that. Not sure how accurate it is.
 
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