No need to fret, you'll pick someone up from Wigan for £2m or so
Leighton Baines
- Thread starter ::sonny::
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No need to fret, you'll pick someone up from Wigan for £2m or so
One could say that is very good reason to fret.
Cheeky bid for Gary Caldwell?
Don't forget the last left back they picked up from Wigan
Good point. Equally though, don't forget Roger Espinoza...
Indeed. I've never been overly impressed when he has played but maybe a lot of game time should change my opinion/benefit him greatly. We will see I suppose.
Bloody hell that was a long time ago! Actually thought there was some sort of glitch attributing that post to my name haha
Daily Star saying we will get him if we bid £18million
Please no
If we sign him for this kind of money, then there is something wrong with our transfer dealings. No thanks. He's a very good LB but turns 29 soon and has maybe already peaked, I'd rather give Fabio a chance so I hope Everton keep their icon.
Which would be ridiculous given that we don't even need him ffs.
18 million would be ridiculous to spend on him.
I tend to agree.
Only want him if Evra wants to leave.
Would not be happy to see Evra forced out because of this signing. For me he easily has another 2 seasons in him as our first choice left back.
But if Evra wants to go back to France, it's all good.
Only want him if Evra wants to leave.
Would not be happy to see Evra forced out because of this signing. For me he easily has another 2 seasons in him as our first choice left back.
But if Evra wants to go back to France, it's all good.
Baines is the best left back in the league, would be an improvement on Evra. Sentimentality getting the better of a lot of you.
He would definitely be an improvement on Evra but anything over our first offer would be mad. If we can sell Evra for £5-6m then it could make sense. But I don't see United getting this kind of money for him.
Not worth £18million.
Sentimentality, or loyalty to a guy who we almost all really like, who is a character and who is still a bloody good left back. Baines is a good player, but while Evra is here we don't need him. Why force out a perfectly good left-back to overpay for another one?
Probably would be an improvement, but £18m for someone who'll be 29 at the turn of the year would be ridiculous.
Apart from set pieces I don't see Baines as an improvement.
As a left back they are quite similar right now in terms of quality. Although Evra at his best is the better player.
I will be well pissed off if he is forced out. Baines is a perfectly good replacement only if Evra has had enough.
As a left back they are quite similar right now in terms of quality. Although Evra at his best is the better player.
I will be well pissed off if he is forced out. Baines is a perfectly good replacement only if Evra has had enough.
We need to improve our squad and we have the opportunity to do that with Baines. I don't see why the price is such an issue, adding an extra couple of million to his fee isn't going to do much to our transfer budget.
We don't need to improve our left-back, we have a perfectly good one.
Baines is perhaps the only leftback in the premier league who has the team set up for his benefit and gets to take set pieces. I seriously doubt he would look anywhere near as good if he had to share the limelight with United's many stars and didn't receive the same protection he gets from Pienaar .
Well we're struggling to find anyone else to spend the club's money on, may as well over-spend on a player we can actually get.
Not to mention a great prospect in Fabio, who could step in for Evra in a year or two.
I think when Fabio was switched to, it gave Moyes some food for thought about wasting money on Baines.
There can't be many full backs you wouldn't get for £18m!
Since we've already had a bid of around £12m confirmed and rejected I fully expect us to complete this signing before the season starts, we rarely go after a player and then not follow with another bid.
Everton should replace him with Ben Davies at Swansea. Had a good season and gets mentioned now and again, but with all the excitement about Shaw he often gets forgotten. He's obviously completely different to Baines and wouldnt offer the same attacking threat but who does? he'd be a solid young option that they can develop into another of the top fullbacks into the country over time.
Or they could sign Taylor from Swansea that Ben Davies replaced due to his injury. Both of them are tidy, young players.
The reality is we don't know what's going on with Evra. Is he looking to leave? Or maybe people at the club feel he's declining physically? Those are main issues which we do not know. If Evra is staying and there's no reason to think he'll be declining much short term, it doesn't make sense to spend a lot on Baines. But if he's going, we certainly do need a left back.
I think Taylor was okay for Team GB when I saw him but Davies impressed me more last season.
Anyway back onto Baines, he made 2 defensive mistakes to Evra's 3 and won a duel when taken on 50% to Evra's 46%. Rafael's was 60%, Cole's 52% and Shaw also 50% so Evra was the least of those I compared. Some fairly interesting stats I think. They also averaged the same amount of dribbles.
Evra won a lot more balls in the air than any of the others. This is probably partly to do with the CBs they're playing with as a CB is likely to take control of winning the ball in the air, but some CBs are better at it than others
Anyway back onto Baines, he made 2 defensive mistakes to Evra's 3 and won a duel when taken on 50% to Evra's 46%. Rafael's was 60%, Cole's 52% and Shaw also 50% so Evra was the least of those I compared. Some fairly interesting stats I think. They also averaged the same amount of dribbles.
Evra won a lot more balls in the air than any of the others. This is probably partly to do with the CBs they're playing with as a CB is likely to take control of winning the ball in the air, but some CBs are better at it than others
This is will be a rather irrational transfer were it to happen without seeing some departures in that position. I am probably one of the few that remain unconvinced over Baines's apparent superiority over Evra. If we are to compare the two players (plus another one) statistically, there isn't much between the two and while Baines may have been slightly better offensively last season, defensively where it all matters, Evra just shades it. I believe some of the sentiments in favour of signing Baines might have been made without a closer scrutiny of the player in contrast to Pat who we get to see pretty much every time United play. The stats illustrate the different styles of play between not only the two players but their respective teams with Evra being more suited to our patient approach and preference to use wingers to provide the final attacking product.
To summarize it would make little sense to spend the significant sums being quoted just to buy someone who isn't overall better than what we already have unless the future of the incumbent lies away from Old Trafford.
If the club really is in the market for a left sided player why not take a punt at Fabio Coentrao at Madrid who also seemingly looks at home on the left wing due to his impressive skill set?
To summarize it would make little sense to spend the significant sums being quoted just to buy someone who isn't overall better than what we already have unless the future of the incumbent lies away from Old Trafford.
If the club really is in the market for a left sided player why not take a punt at Fabio Coentrao at Madrid who also seemingly looks at home on the left wing due to his impressive skill set?
Madrid paid 30 million euros plus Garay for Coentrao. He might not be favoured, but I could see Madrid wanting almost all of that money back on him and it would be a surprise if most of the cash rich clubs dont approach him
How many times have Madrid recouped all their money on a sale of a big name player? Robinho?
Almost every "big name player" they sold at a decent age had injury problems. Robinho was even furious about them looking to replace him with Ronaldo so he didnt care where he went, just that he left Madrid and thats how he ended up at City. Coentrao is 25, fit and surely has a lot of takers
This is will be a rather irrational transfer were it to happen without seeing some departures in that position. I am probably one of the few that remain unconvinced over Baines's apparent superiority over Evra. If we are to compare the two players (plus another one) statistically, there isn't much between the two and while Baines may have been slightly better offensively last season, defensively where it all matters, Evra just shades it. I believe some of the sentiments in favour of signing Baines might have been made without a closer scrutiny of the player in contrast to Pat who we get to see pretty much every time United play. The stats illustrate the different styles of play between not only the two players but their respective teams with Evra being more suited to our patient approach and preference to use wingers to provide the final attacking product.
To summarize it would make little sense to spend the significant sums being quoted just to buy someone who isn't overall better than what we already have unless the future of the incumbent lies away from Old Trafford.
If the club really is in the market for a left sided player why not take a punt at Fabio Coentrao at Madrid who also seemingly looks at home on the left wing due to his impressive skill set?
Because Baines is better than Coentrao and I'll argue that all day long.
Not only is Baines currently the best performing LB in England but you'll struggle to name many better left backs in world football. And no, that's not an exaggeration. Baines is almost as good as they come defensively for a fullback right now and attacking wise he's been outstanding. And the most important thing for me to add to that is how consistent he is. Brilliant season after brilliant season.
What bandwagon did you jump onto? How in the name of something holy or ungainly is Baines almost as good as they come defensively for a fullback? If you had said for a winger, I would still give you Valencia as a better alternative, on the top of my head. Every stats you can find will show you that Baines is below average in the PL defensively. He's terrific going forwards, but defensively he's a couple of levels below Evra and a few more so below Rafael. He struggles for pace every so often, he lacks strength to outmuscle the stronger wingers and he isn't particularly good in the air. Evra makes more clearances, more blocks and wins a ton more headers than Baines does. He is consistent, but defensively he will certainly be no upgrade at all. In fact, if we study our alternatives, Evra, Büttner, Fabio and then Baines, I think Fabio may prove out to be the best defensively with Evra second and Baines third. Going forward you need to just flip it. It all depends on what you want, but performing brilliantly for Everton is not the same as being able to do that at United, and being below average at defending doesn't bode well, imo. (That's not just talking stats, that's also taken from every time I've watched him play - he isn't impressive at defending)
Moyes apparently said Evra is staying. If that's the case I don't really see the need for Baines.
However, Evra can't keep playing as much as he has thus far, some rotation at LB will be necessary. But Baines? Both players are certainly natural starters, as it were, and it strikes me as a bit of an odd move.
As for Fabio, Moyes may intend to use him mainly as backup for his brother. Perhaps Moyes wants to use Jones primarily as a CB (some of his comments indicate this), and he may not be keen on using Smalling as a backup RB either. And, finally, he may deem the new lad too raw (could go on loan, plausibly). Which means that Fabio would be our second choice at RB, effectively. Baines/Evra for LB, Rafael/Fabio for RB. That's very strong. But the first pair strikes me as overkill, almost. Would either player be happy to spend a considerable amount of time on the bench?
However, Evra can't keep playing as much as he has thus far, some rotation at LB will be necessary. But Baines? Both players are certainly natural starters, as it were, and it strikes me as a bit of an odd move.
As for Fabio, Moyes may intend to use him mainly as backup for his brother. Perhaps Moyes wants to use Jones primarily as a CB (some of his comments indicate this), and he may not be keen on using Smalling as a backup RB either. And, finally, he may deem the new lad too raw (could go on loan, plausibly). Which means that Fabio would be our second choice at RB, effectively. Baines/Evra for LB, Rafael/Fabio for RB. That's very strong. But the first pair strikes me as overkill, almost. Would either player be happy to spend a considerable amount of time on the bench?
Good post!
That's the impending predicament Moyes might be creating if buying Baines and not offloading Evra. By selling Evra, I don't personally believe we will see an increase in quality either. If Evra wants to leave and join Monaco, which is fine (I've said before that I can understand players wishing to leave, but do so in a proper manner) considering he's played there before and can probably get a good paycheck there also, then I think Baines will be a good signing. Fabio may turn out to be as good or even better than Rafael, but it will probably take a couple of seasons. If he does become that good, there should be no reasons why he can't get a first spot ahead of an ageing Baines.
Is there much point in replying to you when you're trying to tell me Evra is leaps and bounds ahead of Baines in terms of defensive play and that Fabio may prove to be better than both him and Evra? Seriously, the feck is that man?
Evra managed to step it up a bit this past season, but defensively he still struggled a good amount and was found wanting way more than he should of been. The idea that Baines is below average defensively is utter nonsense. I've watched the guy for the majority of his career and he's improved that side of his game more and more. And defensively stats don't tell the full story what so ever.
You'll find that a vast amount of the top left backs around aren't all that better defensively than what Baines is and if you think they are, then you're on a completely different level to me.
Already been discussed how Moyes may want to use Baines to apply the width we'd need if we sacrificed our wingers in terms of playing more players through the middle.
Baines was the best LB in the league last season, no arguments to be had. Baines has been arguably the most consistent LB in the league for a few seasons now. Ultimately he's a quality player that's comfortable defending and lethal going forward. Sometimes I just can't believe what I read. People actually claiming Baines is levels below Evra defensively. It's just mind boggling, truly mind boggling. No offence when I say that mate, but fecking hell, seriously?
Where did I write that Evra was leaps and bounds ahead of Baines? I said I considered him better in defense in reply to your argument that Baines was about as good defensively as fullbacks come these days, to which I disagree and stats support me on in addition to my own observations. I said I think Fabio can become better than Evra defensively because looking at his twin brother he is already getting there with some very solid defensive displays. I'm not saying that Fabio will be better, but that he may become better - is that too for of a stretch?
Baines may have been the best LB in the league, but arguments will always be had. I saw a discussion of that with stats included that showed that there really wasn't much in it between Cole, Baines and Evra if you included defending and attacking. Cole was the best defender, Baines the best attacker with Evra in the middle of both.
I know that Moyes prefers for his fullbacks to provide width, which is fine. However, teams will play us differently, more on the counter than they did Everton, and imo Baines isn't quick enough to cover enough grounds getting back - there can be no denying that he is lacking a bit of pace compared to the rest of the best, do you not agree? You have also given no account as to why he is such a good defender. I said he has fewer blocks, fewer successful tackles, oh and fewer interceptions and isn't as good a header. How does that make him better defensively, and do not think for a moment that his even more advanced playing style will not leave him "more out of position" than Evra already is (an argument which is a bit silly for an attacking fullback anyhow).
Also, why not argue without sounding like a prick and being all personal?